Relationship with DM

[Catty99]

DM is difficult and self-absorbed and after a bout of particularly bad behaviour from her, and months of therapy for me, we’ve been LC for 2 years. LC involves the odd text every couple of months and some birthday/xmas cards/presents.

I was surprised this year that she sent me a birthday present and card, plus a text message and that it was all on time for my milestone birthday... last year it was 2 days after my birthday that I received an online voucher and a text from her.....this years present was nice (think genetic gift shop type present), if not a little random, and hard to know if there was or wasn't much thought out in. Wording in the card was simply “happy birthday love mum”.

This probably sounds like I’m over analyzing it all (and being un grateful) but I’ve had my whole life trying to figure out the meaning behind her actions and words.

And to be honest, I would have preferred a phone call or something to show that she would like to fix things between us, I don’t want token presents or cards, the contact would mean so much more. I am not a big birthday person but it was a milestone one and I’m her daughter so you would’ve thought some special sentiment might have been there somewhere.

Anyway, I texted her back on my birthday to say thanks for the birthday wishes and lovely presents and chatted a bit about what I did that day. Nothing back until a few days later when she just went on about Coronavirus and how she might have to self isolate etc etc etc. Not even a slight mention of “glad you had a nice day”. It’s been a few days since she wrote that and I don’t even know how to respond. There no questions, nothing for me to reply on as such. In fact this is the pattern all of her messages take - she talks about herself and none of it is open ended to encourage much of a conversation (unless it’s to ask if her presents have arrived).

I don’t know what I’m looking for by posting really, just feel sad. I wish she hadn’t bothered with the present, because it’s like it’s some weird display of contact but with none of the true genuine associations of gift-giving. A chat over text would’ve been so much more meaningful, or ultimately a call.

Foe what it’s worth I call her on her birthday and at Christmas and she never answers. So we send a video message and the sometimes we get a reply a few days later.

It’s like she’s letting me know that she will not be making time for us.

It’s also a milestone birthday for her this year. We are due to be going to a surprise meal for her and we will have to sit there and pretend everything is hunky dory. I’m beginning to wonder why on earth I should bother making the effort (it’s a long way to travel). But then that feels so petty. I don’t know....

If Coronavirus means we can’t travel, I won’t be upset.....

That's really sad OP, I'm sorry. It's amazing how we still cling on to relationships hoping they'll change. Well done for getting therapy and looking after yourself by going low contact. She isn't going to change, so perhaps lower your expectations even further.

Yes you are right, I thought I had accepted that she will never change and that our LC was ok for me. I guess I’m not entirely there yet, though I guess the milestone birthday(s) triggers something hope.

Really missed my dear old dad on my birthday too. He died a few years back. That doesn’t help I guess.

You need to stop expecting anything from her and then when she surprises you be happy.

I could give you two posts her

A. I suffer social anxiety and struggle so badly to communicate that I say most things wrong and upset people that I never meant to upset and then go into hiding because I can't cope with the way things were misread and recently found out my SIL doesn't want any more contact because I never come across as friendly (horrified) because any communication with her has been under such social phobic pain, but I've got there because family was all I had, now divided between a brother who understood me and a SIL who doesn't understand.

And B

Dh has a narcissistic mother who played mind games and manipulated him to the point he walked away and has been a lot happier and feels free now he can live his own life.

Sometimes people are manipulative and toxic and you need to walk away.

Sometimes people are suffering so badly to communicate that they just get it wrong and it's all read wrong and they send tokens to hint they care, when in reality the social expectations are easy for some people to read and horrifying for those who guess wrong.

I'm so glad I answered your post, I think I have found the reason behind my agoraphobia.

OP I had a mother just like yours. I endured years of her behaviour, I went low contact, and tried many times to understand the way she 'ticks' it was exhausting at times. Like you I had random presents on the wrong days, texts that were confusing. I reached a stage where I just cut contact completely. That was 7 years ago. It's the best decision I've ever made. It brought closure and peace of mind.

Thanks all. Sorry to hear people have experienced similar.

I still have to remind myself every now and again why we are LC, rather than slipping in to thinking I’m just being mean to her. She is not inherently bad, but she does frequently damage relationships around her.

It’s very complicated. It’s simpler being LC, but this thread has reminded me to go with my gut in terms of boundaries and to not please her first.

I think she thinks she’s being chatty by hi allying about Coronavirus and I’m sat here thinking “you have completely ignored my message about my milestone birthday”. But then that’s representative of our relationship really - it’s always been about her and I’ve never really got what I needed from her.

She’s getting older and I feel sad for her. Yet I know distancing myself from her is the right thing to do for me.

So she’s still chatting over text about cv19 and how it’s impacting her.

Is that the only common ground we’ve got?

Why does she think I want to chat to her about that when she can’t even call to wish me a happy birthday?

You can't change people.

You can only change how you react to them.

Let it go.

Make your life the best life it can be.

Don't expect anything from dm.

If you do get anything then that's a bonus.

I used to be you.

But now I know I'm a good person who is happy within myself. I don't need validation from anyone else.

And neither do you xx

This probably sounds like I’m over analyzing it all (and being un grateful) but I’ve had my whole life trying to figure out the meaning behind her actions and words.

This is where you are going wrong.
Don’t waste your headspace and trying to understand HER. Even if you did a deep dive analysis paralysis - this still doesn’t mean she could or would change her behaviour.

BUT

You can keep trying to continue to understand YOUR reaction to her behaviours and then change the dynamic. This is where you have control and where you can affect change. It’s about detaching emotionally and putting in more distance.

Birthdays and events are when hope / wishful thing rises up - this is where our child emotional part that always continues to trust and hope and believe in a parent comes to the fore.

As PP has said expect zero from her - but full that void with positive people, relationships and experiences - so that your expectations are managed and you are emotionally shielded.

You have done great so far. It’s always a bumpy road.....

I think you need to visit the Stately Homes thread OP.

You could have been describing my mother. When she did ever call, all she did was talk about herself. She arranged a huge party for everyone to celebrate her. Said nasty things All the time and was never there when I needed her as a child, quite the opposite.

What I will say is this. There is an answer. LC isn't enough. You need to go fully NC. I did this a decade ago and my life had been so much improved without the constant 'what's she going to kick off about now'

Step out of the FOG. Fear, Obligation, Guilt cycle and reclaim your life. Narcissist parents do not change

I'd reply back "yes, it's difficult for everyone" and leave it at that. It sounds as though she's wanting you to help her out.

Thank you all. @Gutterton You talk a lot of sense.

I can’t bring myself to do NC. There is a lot of geographical distance between us so this “helps”. It’s been 2 years of LC now which I generally find manageable. I think the milestone birthdays for us both have exacerbated things temporarily, for me anyway. I am missing my dad a lot too at the moment which doesn’t help either.

I’ve done my duty by sending a Mother’s Day card and a text but that’s all I feel comfortable doing.

And I’ve accepted I’ll be going to hell because I’m happy and relieved that CV19 has scuppered the plans for her upcoming birthday celebrations....

@westcountrylady

very enlightening post. Thank you for this. It sheds another light onto people's behaviour.

Westcountrylady this is v helpful and I am sorry that life is so excruciating for you.

However...... I would expect person A to throw some light on the situation - maybe a text explaining communication difficultly and apologies for any inadvertent offence.

I would expect if person B was the character - the above wouldn’t happen.

I wonder in your case if did offer an explanation your SIL is still “offended” - then in reality she is a person B type and you are well shot of her.

Catty99 Yes NC is hard and as you have recognised there are still always going to be bumps in the road with LC (milestone birthday) - you couldn’t have known this feeling would be triggered - but you have contained the feeling, ridden the wave and not taken any action which could have set you back - so v well done.

You have another decade before a milestone birthday emotion will be triggered again.

Well yes to another decade though I suspect her birthday plans will be just postpone (though I’m hoping that once the actual day has been and gone, the need to celebrate will also have been and gone).

She’s acknowledged my text this morning. But yet another year where she hasn’t acknowledged me as also being a mother. This I have come to expect actually....

Anyway, thanks for listening/reading. Every now and again I need to get things off my chest during one of these bumps (as @Gutterton puts it)!

I am noticing these “events” are triggering for me. This helps to be prepared.

Have a good day all.

You could be describing my mother.

I went very LC with her 4 years ago (last saw her 4 years ago and spoke to her at Christmas I say spoke - she talked at me for 10 mins about herself and i didn’t speak).

The relief now she’s out of my life and not bullying me is immense.

I spent years trying to figure out why she was never there for me, she effectively stopped ‘parenting’ me when I was 16.

You will never change her, you can only manage how you respond.

As another poster said - get out of the FOG. Fear, Obligation, Guilt cycle and reclaim your life. Narcissist parents do not change.

Indeed, I know she won’t change, that much is clear.

It would be a bit easier if she was overtly shit. It’s all so bloody subtle that I’m always having to remind myself why we are where we are. I genuinely think she can’t see what she’s doing and can only see herself as the victim. She herself is damaged. But this is not my fault and I don’t have to a) like her or b) want to be in contact with her. I need to remember I don’t owe her anything.

A good technique is to write a big long laundry list of every single incident you can remember that didn’t sit right with you since you were a child. Then you can see the totality and patterns. The volume will shock you and leave you in no doubt. So anytime that you question yourself go back to look at the list.

Covert bullies do just enough in each of their single passive aggressive snipes / swipes for you to feel you would be unreasonable to call them out on it at the time. Anything that leaves you “confused” or “unsettled” or “questioning” is an attack.

So things have come to a head. DM has told me how awful I am, unkind, hurtful, mean etc. that I treat her as the enemy, that I’m punishing her, that I clearly don’t love her. There’s health and suicidal thought threats in there too. I’ve been asked to not contact her and that our relationship is over - unless I can meet her conditions of being kind and starting any communication with an admission of how badly I’ve treated her....

I feel terrible. A lot of what she says is true (ie that I keep her at arms length). She’s forgotten why that is despite me explaining it over and over again. But she would like me to just move on and the fact that I haven’t sends her into this rage. It’s all classic stuff - baiting, minimizing, guilt trips etc.

But it feels like the shit has hit the fan. Her milestone birthday is coming up, I guess that’s triggered things for her. I feel so very said that she has gone in this direction, I feel bad that I haven’t helped guide her to another easier direction. Though I know I can’t and shouldn’t, that it’s not my responsibility to do so. I am worried she’ll do something stupid/serious now.

My sibling says it’s just a tantrum.

I guess I do feel confused, unsettled and questioning so need to keep that framed as an attack like gutterton says.