Am I being unreasonable and unsupportive?

[DevotedDevonMother]

I've never done this before but I desperately need someone to vent to so please be kind!

My husband and I have been married a good number of years and we have 2 wonderful children together under the age of 10.
In recent years my husband has had to give up his job to become my full time carer.
It is not what we planned but we manage OK and get along fine together.
He does a lot of the jobs that I cannot manage anymore and takes me when I want to go shopping etc.
We love each other and still have a laugh together and enjoy watching a film in the evening together.
The problems occur when the children are home from school, my hubby has no patience with them.
Our son has autism and attends a special needs school. My hubby tells people our son has autism, but makes no allowance for his autistic behaviour.
He constantly berates our son over, what I consider to be small things, such as chewing loudly, talking loudly, bouncing his ball, spinning in circles etc etc.
My hubby doesn't say it in a kind way either, he will shout things like, 'why are shouting, shut up'
I actually counted the other day, he berated our son 14 times and he'd only been home an hour.
When the children are being well behaved things are OK, but as soon as they behave in any other manner than perfectly my husband cannot cope.
He will shout at the children, grab them roughly by the arm and drag them to their rooms.
Most of our arguments are now centered around the children because I refuse to sit there and watch him belittle the children or treat them badly.
We have been on parenting courses to tackle these issues and while that helped settle things for a while, my husband seems to have forgotten everything we learned.
My hubby says that I am too soft on the children, and gets angry when they don't listen to him and asks why they only listen to me.
I have tried to talk to him about what we learnt at the parenting group, asking the children politely to do something rather than ordering them around and being as consistant as possible. However he just gets angry with me making snide comments such as 'it's alright for you, you love them' and 'well we can't all be perfect like you '
I'm not saying I'm perfect, just trying to put into practice what I learnt.
He has started making snide comments to the children too like 'so when are you moving out'. I think he means it as a joke, but I don't think it's very good for their self esteem.
I want the children to grow up confident and happy, not constantly put down for the smallest infraction.

I feel like I've got to the end of my tether having these conversations with my husband when he makes no changes.
I don't want to give up on him, but I don't know what else to do.
He agreed to go to counselling but the result of that was the counsellor said he too has autism and we should just accept my husband is the way he is and cannot change.
So when I ask my hubby to be a little kinder in the way he speaks to the children he just throws at me 'I've got autism, I can't cope with their noise and you shouldn't expect me to.'
I understand it's difficult for him, but the way he treats the children is worse since he saw the counsellor, almost like he's given himself permission to act the way he does.

I've got to the point I just want to take the children and walk away.
I love my husband, but I love my children more, does that make me a terrible person?

I use the term 'walk' loosely, I'm in a wheelchair and I can't just walk away. My home is adapted so just leaving isn't an option.

Any helpful advice would be gratefully appreciated

I'm confused. Does your husband actually have a formal diagnosis of autism or is this just something the counsellor has said. No counsellor can diagnose autism and I don't think any would cross the line so much as to do this. I'm skeptical that they even said this tbh but if they did it's basically malpractice as they're simply NOT qualified to do this. At the end of the day regardless of what's going on with your partner your child's needs should come way before anyone else's needs so if he can't prioritise your child and especially if he's being abusive to your child and the relationship isn't positive then personally I wouldn't stand for that. We all have our moments where we lose our rag a bit and our interactions with our kids are less than perfect but if it's constant then it's going to be having a very negative impact on your child. Put your child first whatever you do... no excuses! Good luck xx

the counsellor said he too has autism and we should just accept my husband is the way he is and cannot change.

Oh crumbs! There is no "just" about accepting that he has autism. It is a huge thing to accept! Did you have any idea about it before? It must affect everything about the way he interacts with the children and probably with you too. If things are to improve then he needs to understand that his way of interacting with the children is totally unacceptable, autistic or not, and that he will need to learn new ways. Quite likely he will need specialist help to communicate better. Would he look for such help? Or accept it? His behaviour will also hugely affect your marriage and you may need to decide whether you can stay with him or not, and whether he can care for your children or not.

Wanting to prioritise your children's needs is very reasonable. It does not mean you don't love your husband. They are totally dependent on you and on him, and the way he speaks to them sounds inappropriate and damaging. So if he wont learn new ways, if he uses his autism as an excuse and not as a way to learn to do better, then you may have some very hard decisions head. Are you still seeing the counsellor?

(By the way you may get better advice if you post on the Relationships board. You could Report your thread and ask the moderators to move it.)

YY to what jannt86 said as well. If your DH is saying he has autism but he doesn't have a proper diagnosis then the first thing he needs to do is go to the doctor and ask for a proper diagnostic assessment so he can get help. If he wont do that then he's just making excuses.

Thank you everyone, I have posted it on the relationships board because I can't work out how to move it!
I wasn't there for my husbands counselling sessions so I can only relate what he told me was the outcome of the sessions.
I had no clue when we were dating and first married, it's all sort of come out since we've had children. He was fantastic with them when they were babies, it's in the last couple of years his patience has slowly disintegrated.
I have asked him to see the Doctor, but he says 'what's the point, they won't do anything for me'.
I feel bad for him because it's like the life is being sucked out of him. Even my 5 year old said, 'why does daddy slump on the sofa all day?'
I am worried he's depressed and told him I was worried about him but he's refusing to go and see the Doctor.
How do you help someone who refuses to get help???

We're just moving this thread over to relationships for the OP.

I'm still not clear. Has he had a FORMAL diagnosis of ASD not just a counsellor telling him they think he has it? Either way it sounds like his mood is more of an issue than the autism that he may or may not have. There's no shame in having mental health struggles but once you have a child you have a responsibility to take control of your own health and wellbeing and (no offence) act like an adult. I'm afraid I just wouldn't stand for slumping around all day and being abusive to my kids whatever his reasons especially when he's basically refusing to seek help. As already touched upon I'd seriously question the advice his counsellor is giving too especially if her advice is that your dependent, defenceless child should just 'put up' with your partner being crappy to them and even more so if they're coming up with a bogus diagnosis themselves. Sorry if I sound harsh but your kid comes first x

he says 'what's the point, they won't do anything for me'. I feel bad for him because it's like the life is being sucked out of him.

Stop feeling bad for him. He is behaving badly. This isn't about what the doctor will do for him, this is about the damage he is doing to his children. Doesn't he care about that? He needs to see the doctor and get help for his children's sake. If he wont do that then what's the point of him?

How do you help someone who refuses to get help???

You can't help them and after while you decide to stop wasting your time. Yes, if he wont get help then you do give up on him. I'm really sorry. Your children need your protection because the way he treats them is abusive - berating them, dragging around - and he really is doing them the harm that you fear. If he wont get help then his behaviour will not change and the damage they are suffering will only get deeper. You can't help him but you can protect them, even if that's by (figuratively) walking away and taking them with you.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

I would start by seeking legal advice with a view to ending your marriage. Stop feeling bad for him and I would look into the possibility too of obtaining non molestation or occupation orders re him.

He is using autism as an excuse to further abuse his children in front of your very eyes. Someone has to protect these children and its going to have to be you. They are reliant on you and your good judgment.

Thank you Jannt86 and AmaryllisNightAndDay.
Do you think it's a prudent course of action to first lay it all out on the table for him? Try again to explain how he's affecting us and ask him to seek help?
We have never ever had a separate holiday from each other, but I have booked a couple of days away with my mum and the children in a few weeks. I was trying to find the right moment to tell him because I thought he'd be very upset with me, but when he found out through my mum he just said 'I don't care if you go away with the kids, I'm angry you just didn't tell me'
He's made it clear he can't stand being around the kids at the moment so I'm wondering if I'm overthinking the whole thing and he just doesn't care enough to try and change, or am I being unfair and that's depression talking ?
I have very little understanding of depression so I don't want to be unfair to him as he says I don't understand and I'm not thinking of his feelings. He says I make allowances for our sons behaviour, but not his.
That makes me feel bad, but another part of me thinks, but your an adult!

No to what you propose, talking to him is a wasted effort. He knows what he is doing here and he does not care about any of you. I would also think he told you a pack of lies re this counsellor he supposedly saw as well; no counsellor worth their salt would have said this to him.

Look at his parents OP and wider family; what are they like?. Probably very much like him.

You in turn are being emotionally abused by him too.

I would contact both Womens Aid and the Rights of Women organisations; you need both help and support in order to leave your abuser.

I echo going to get legal advice. He is abusing your children and you. Please find out where you stand and get him away from the children, he sounds awful, and dangerous to be honest.

OP. This is abuse.

I have aspergers. I suspected that i had it for a few years before I had a formal diagnosis.

Once I realised, I made it my responsibility to 'manage' those aspects of my personality that were a bit out of kilter with everyone else so that my difference didn't impact on others (it could, quite easily - my thinking is very rigid and I overthink massively). So, I stopped masking stims etc to take the pressure off myself but, when I remembered, I also tried to run my thoughts through a filter of "am I right to feel like this or is it aspie thinking". I didn't always get it right (and still don't) and, sometimes my rigidity of thinking, overthinking and directness benefit me.

But I wouldn't EVER expect to treat someone badly and be able to just shout "I'm autistic, deal with it" at them.

It's not your responsibility to fix him. You can support him but, if he is autistic, managing his feelings and behaviours will be very difficult. That's something that's got to come from him, not you. Your children need you to protect them.

Do you think it's a prudent course of action to first lay it all out on the table for him? Try again to explain how he's affecting us and ask him to seek help?

No. If you've already tried to tell him and it hasn't worked then it wont work another time either. He will just make another attempt to make you feel sorry for him, and when that doesn't work and you try to insist he will just get angry. You are already afraid to tell him things he doesn't want to hear, like your holiday with your Mum. He always find a reason to justify or excuse his own bad behaviour. When all else fails he blames you and gets very angry.

He's made it clear he can't stand being around the kids at the moment so I'm wondering if I'm overthinking the whole thing and he just doesn't care enough to try and change, or am I being unfair and that's depression talking?

Yes you are overthinking. Depression is not an excuse for behaving badly and doing nothing about it, autism is not an excuse for behaving badly and doing nothing about it either. He seems very able to bamboozle you into feeling sorry for him by telling you he has different mental health problems.

He is abusing you and he is abusing your children and he is just making excuses for it.

Thank you all for your very straightforward comments and advice.

Look at his parents OP and wider family; what are they like?. Probably very much like him.

His family is quite frankly a mess! His ex stepfather abused him verbally and physically (not sexually) which I know had a massive impact on him. Hence why I feel bad for him coz he's not had a great upbringing or positive male role models. He will say things like 'I was never allowed to get away with that'. To which I say, no, but that doesnt make it right, to which he reluctantly agrees. And his mum just doesn't care full stop!

He seems very able to bamboozle you into feeling sorry for him by telling you he has different mental health problems.

Yes, I do feel sorry for him and I do want to be supportive. I don't want to be that heartless bitch that didn't care about his problems and when things got tough abandoned him.

I'm beginning to realise he's got to want to change, and he doesn't want to!
So thank you all for being forthright.
I am tired of walking on eggshells when he's around, worried about upsetting his feelings.
The reason why I finally got the courage to post on here was that he has started throwing things and has raised his fist to our son.. He didn't hit him but i could tell he wanted to and I have this horrible feeling he would have done if I hadn't shouted at him to stop.
I just wanted to take my children and leave it that very moment but I'm trapped in my home. I can't drive and I live in a rural location with no public transport.
I yelled at him to leave the house and he did.
He's stormed out a few times, but when he comes back he's always so remorseful, like a wounded puppy. I genuinely think he's lost his temper so badly he's not in control and doesn't realise what he's doing at the time. A bit like when our son has a fit of rage.
It scares me though about what he'll do in that moment.
He says he feels trapped and I've said to him that I'm not keeping him here, he's free to leave at any time. But he gives me a wounded look and says he has no where to go and no one else would have him!
He gave me what he thought was an ultimatum a while back. He said, I cannot stand it, it's me or our son,he needs to go into care. I shot back without hesitation, our son, I will pick him every time, you're an adult, you can look after yourself. He's not going anywhere. My husband was genuinely shocked, just stood there with his mouth open then walked away.
It's like he can't even concieve how important my children are to me. Which makes me wonder how important they are to him.
If I do make the decision to leave him, how do I remove him from our house? It's not like I can take the children and go somewhere else! I feel so trapped and frustrated and helpless. I'm a can do, strong willed person. If I wasn't disabled I know I would have left ages ago.
Its so frustrating not being fully in control of your own life

So your husband is possibly on the spectrum is your full time carer and you have a child with autism?

He clearly isn't coping with this and I suspect you need some support. Has he had any carer's respite since he became your carer?

Or you could just label him an abuser and divorce him I suppose.

where does the OP say her husband is her 'carer', full time or otherwise?

OP, the fact that your husband effectively pitted himself against your son ('it's him or me') says a great deal - he doesn't even see them as being on the same team. and the use of something like autism (and not even formally diagnosed autism at that) as an excuse for his abusive parenting is pretty abhorrent.

if you do decide you've had enough, would he move out without too much fuss do you think? or are you worried he'll refuse to leave?

sorry @Hopoindown31, just spotted the full time carer bit in the original post

Hopoindown31

Yes, you are right, he's not coping. Which I why I'm trying to be supportive and not throw this in his face.
I approached the childrens centre 2 years ago, they arranged for the parenting courses and his counseling. Things got better for a while, but it doesn't last.
Last year I talked to an older friend of ours who worked at the childrens centre at the time because of my worries. She arranged for my husband to have regular respite a couple of days a week. On the days my husband is out all is well, he comes home in a better mood and seems able to cope pretty well. It's the other days it's not working.
It's like, so long as everything is going his way all is fine, but as soon as there is any pressure it all blows up. I know that not everyone copes with pressure well, but it's like having 3 children sometimes!
I have suggested on a number of occasions that he can go back to work, a few times his old job has come up and he loved working there. I said to him I don't want to hold him back and if it makes him happy it's worth it. It'd be a struggle financially and I'd have to call in favours from friends and family but I think it's worth it if it gives him his seif esteem back. He doesn't want to do this either though, says it's too much trouble!

wowsertrousers
I know he wouldn't go, he said to me he's got nowhere to go!
A few times he's said to me, this is my house, if you want to go you'll have to leave, I'm not going anywhere!
Which is ironic because its a housing association property that we rent that we only were 'given' because its been specially adapted for me

Please seriously consider contacting Womens Aid and or your local domestic violence support group?. Do not hesitate to call the police either when he kicks off again. Have you also now considered divorcing this man?.

Whose idea was it to live where you do now, why this location?. Was it his idea in the main?. If it was his idea in the main this may well have been an additional tactic of his to further isolate and thus control you.

I would feel more sorry for your children in this situation rather than he. Its not your fault he cannot cope at all with parenting and he is also very much a product of his own abusive upbringing. He is repeating what he saw as a child on his son, a boy whom he now wants to put into the care system. What does that say about your so called husband?. And you feel sorry for him; I feel your compassion is completely misdirected here.

Bobby - OPs comments re her husband and his former job are here:-

"I have suggested on a number of occasions that he can go back to work, a few times his old job has come up and he loved working there. I said to him I don't want to hold him back and if it makes him happy it's worth it. It'd be a struggle financially and I'd have to call in favours from friends and family but I think it's worth it if it gives him his self esteem back. He doesn't want to do this either though, says it's too much trouble!"

He seems to therefore want his family around him then to abuse and otherwise terrorise. His son in particular must be so very scared of his dad and all family members here are being abused by him.

Abusive men too do not do respond well in counselling so it is of no real surprise either that any changes made are really short lived. This is who he really is and abuse tends to show itself more after pregnancy and childbirth. The fact he has nowhere else to go is not your problem either.

OP - where do you see yourself in six months time?. Still with him in this house?.

I feel a lot of compassion for all of you. His whole world, and yours is upside down and he will struggle to cope, in different ways to you, if he is also autistic.

I think there is a lot of good advice here. I personally would lay it all out to him but only after seeking professional advice.

Hm, I missed the fact that he's your fulltime carer. I am sorry I missed it. That makes things complicated, and difficult.

His behaviour might not be calculated or deliberately abusive but it really is abusive and it's getting worse. He may well have autism and depression. But that doesn't change the fact that he is damaging your children, already, and you've identified that he is increasingly becoming a real physical danger to them. If he has a rage attack at your DS who will get hurt? The children must be so afraid of him, feel so insecure and unsafe at home. And this is their whole life, it is all they know.

If I do make the decision to leave him, how do I remove him from our house? It's not like I can take the children and go somewhere else! I feel so trapped and frustrated and helpless.

He's kind of got you trapped by being your full-time carer. Apart from online, do you have any privacy at all? Do you have a social worker or a home help who vists?

I can see three possible routes forward. As Hopoindown31 says, the first is some kind of professional help. How did you both get to the parenting group? Do you have any contact with social work? Perhaps you could start things rolling by telling your DH that you both need some help with the children at home or perhaps a respite holiday for the kids, so that he can have a break from them, and that you're going to contact social services or your GP to ask for some. Then go to the GP - preferably without him - or call social services and lay out the facts, especially that your DH is on the edge, he has already raised his fist your DS and that you are afraid he is going to crack and you wont be able to stop him. You both urgently need help and they may be able to provide some.

The second route is to ask your DH to move out - but only if you think that is safe and he wont get very angry and attack you - and then when he's gone to ask your GP or social services for help yourself. He doesn't have to be your carer. If he finds the children so unpleasant then moving out might actually suit him.

The third is to contact Women's Aid. Look at the links at the top of the thread, or maybe other women here can advise.

You were not present at his counselling session/s so you have been able only to go by what he told you. He could well have told you a pack of lies.

Did this counsellor state that she thought your H is on the autistic spectrum?. If so she went well beyond her own remit, she is certainly not qualified to make such a pronouncement.

You are right in one important respect re your H; he does not want to change and you are beginning to realise that now. There are legal measures you can employ here if he is a danger to you and your children. Throwing things is also an example of domestic violence within the home.

BobbyBlueCat
Things did get better following the children's centre intervention, which is why I stuck it out.
He gets respite, plus I'm doing the majority of the 'parenting', including the bedtime routine after dinner and the children both to to school. So he only sees them for about 4 hours a day in total during the week. Is that not enough support? Maybe it's not but I can't really do much more.

AttilaTheMeerkat (love the name BTW )
Yes, I will take your advice and contact womens aid. I will have to wait for his next respite day on Tuesday.
It was a joint decision to live here, mainly because it was quiet with a large garden so our son could run free in the summer holidays making as much noise as he likes without upsetting the neighbours!
However, you do have a point. He hates visiting my mother, we've only been to her house once in 6months and she only lives a 20minute drive away. She does work almost full time but he makes every excuse under the sun not to visit her and hates it when she comes over to visit on her day off. I make him go out the house now because otherwise he has the tendency to upset her, though she is very sensitive.
Now you've put it out there it does feel like he's slowly isolated me from the family over the years.

We live 5 minutes from our village and I have made friends with a lady who cares for her grandchild who goes to the school with my daughter. After listening to all your wonderful comments I have arranged a lunch date with her next Wednesday to talk through things with her as she had successfully escaped an abusive marriage years ago.
She's a very strong woman and I know she'll be able to give me help and support in this matter.

I will keep you all posted next week. Thank you all