Another MIL one. WWYD

[Izzwizzo]

Hi All

Posting for some advice and hopefully some perspective please as I'm beginning to annoy myself with my constant overthinking of our current situation. Apologies in advance for what is sure to be a long post!

MIL has always been slightly difficult (DH refers to her as a joy sucker!) No MH issues but she is generally fairly hard to please and does have a victim mentality at times. Aside from that we have always had a pretty ok relationship and although I wouldn't choose to spend weeks on end with her we did see/speak to her quite regularly

DD was born last year after 5 long years of trying and 4 rounds of IVF. Since her birth MIL has been almost totally disinterested in her. She's seen her less than a handful of times and shows no interest at all in her or her progress. I'm trying not to be too PFB about DD and totally understand that whilst she is our world she is not everyone else's. However I really wanted to make sure that DD had a good relationship with all of her grandparents so since her birth I've given updates via social media and family WhatsApp, organised days out, gone to MIL's, invited her to ours and sent pictures through the post.

We get zero response. If it's a get together in person MIL goes into another room and sits on her own until she's asked repeatedly to join the rest of the group. She never ever phones or messages, never asks about DD and reads but never responds on SM and doesn't acknowledge anything sent in the post. I find it very hurtful but again appreciate that I might be being very PFB about the lack of interest.

DD has 4 other grandparents (my parents and FIL and Step-MIL) who are all absolutely besotted as well as lots of aunts, uncles and cousins so she's not lacking in family and sees them all often.

All of this would be hurtful but not a massive issue if MIL has decided to go LC/NC but MIL has now started telling her extended family that she's being excluded and ignored and that we are keeping DD away from her. Both DH and I are now under pressure to "solve" this from the family although any contact to her from us is just ignored.

The latest drama is that MIL is apparently devastated that we are not seeing her on Mother's Day and it's a "kick in the teeth". We don't hear this from her, just second hand from other family members. We are spending this Mother's Day with my Mum because selfishly as it's my first Mother's Day I want to spend it how I would like to and also because we spent last Mother's Day with MIL and in the interests of fairness I always try to alternate occasions like this, Easter, Christmas etc.

I'm not confrontational at all but I am fairly straightforward and so if it was my Mum, I'd have a conversation about this but DH absolutely does not want to do so. I know he's hurt by his Mums lack of interest and so he feels it's better left and she can contact us if she wants to. I worry that this could cause a long rift as I can't see her changing

So WWYD? Would you carry on with contacting her as per the above and see if she responds in time, would you confront her and try to start again or would you leave her to contact us?

I'm aware that due to not getting any response from her I've stopped with the WhatsApp messages and posts recently as I look at my DD and my heart hurts for her and the lack of interest but equally I don't think it's fair if she ends up with no relationship with her Gran due to my lack of input.

Any practical advice or perspective welcome as I want to do the right thing but right now I really have no desire to see or speak to MIL and my biggest and probably most irrational fear is that I'll force a relationship between MIL and DD which if she goes LC/NC with us again in years to come DD might think that it's something that she has done and I'll do anything to protect her from that.

No one ‘has’ to look after her. Your husband’s siblings could also make a choice, they don’t have to pick up the slack when your husband doesn’t see her as much. It might not feel like they have a choice because they’re so used to having to look after her. She’s playing victim because it gives her power. You don’t have to join in that game. Be factual, friendly and boundaried. She’ll hate it but it’s the only way to feel with it. Look up the drama triangle. It’s helpful for understanding how to step out of the game she’s playing

DH needs to state facts to his family "you know what mother is like, she is not going to ruin our time with DD, if she wants to sulk that is up to her" repeat and grey rock them.

Buy him and his siblings "Toxic Parents"

How did you find out she was telling the other grandchildren that you “don’t want to see them either”?

I’d make sure that the parents are fully aware that you HAVE been contacting her but as they could see SHE never engages, so you’re focusing on those who DO give a shit about you and your family. If she wants to change this situation, she knows what to do, the phone works both ways, the WhatsApp and texts can send in both directions but you’re not chasing someone who isn’t bothered...

And if that puts the pressure on them to put up with her that’s unfortunate but you can’t keep putting yourself up to be knocked down any more. You’ve spent a hellish 5 years to get here and if she can’t be bothered, that’s her choice.

They know what she’s like.

Yep, she wants to be the centre of attention. Don't give her headspace. Let your husband deal with her. Not your mother, not your problem.

Congratulations on your baby though.

I’d agree let your DH deal with her, but both of you should have a look at the Out of the Fog website, as pp suggested. ‘Fog’ is the acronym for fear, obligation and guilt, which you MIL is using on all of you. Don’t let her spoil your happiness.

Your child has 4 grandparents who love her and want to spend time with her. That makes her incredibly lucky.
Don't waste your energy on the 5th who doesn't make the effort.

@MzHz

My SIL walked in on her telling her DD (MILs other granddaughter) that she's tried and tried to call us but that we don't want to see anyone including our DNiece

SIL let me know as DNiece was a bit upset and also MIL had tried to get DNiece to secretly promise to take some photos of our DD when we were seeing her and she was worried that she would get into trouble.

If that was me I would have had a chat with MIL about the lying and the requests for secrecy but situations like this tend to be ignored because if confronted about lying which has been done in the past she just cries and then gets hysterical and accuses everyone of ganging up on her which just escalates the drama.

@Gutterton

Thank you for your advice. As others have said it's spot on. I'm going to have to keep reading your last paragraph.

You are right, she will not change. I want her to change and be a doting Granny but that's my issue and I guess I can't force a clear the air conversation if the rest of her family have no desire to and it won't make any difference

We’ve had a very similar thing with MIL. Got on fine with her until ds1 arrived. Then she just went all weird. Wouldn’t come to see us when I was on mat leave, stopped responding to me & only really talking to dh & barely had a relationship with ds1.
Dh finds her really hard to talk to, so wouldn’t broach it. I respected his wishes, but found it really hard to be normal when we did see MIL, as I was really upset at how much her weirdness was upsetting dh.
She’s become a very difficult woman as she’s got older & nothing we have done has been right. In her narrative, we have pushed her away. We’ve also had quite a tough time as a family, and her failure to acknowledge that along with her constant moaning has pretty much ruined dh’s relationship with her. It’s affected things with the rest of the family as they seem to believe her line about it all being my fault.
It’s really sad. Mil has 2 amazing grandchildren here and could be a big part of their lives, but she insists on ruining everything with her difficult and controlling ways. My heart breaks for dh.

If I was to offer any advice, I’d tell you to talk about it openly with her now, before it goes too far & relationships are damanged forever. Call her out on why she refuses to answer & yet tells everyone you are alienating her. I really regret not doing that.

Ultimately though, you may have to accept that nothing you can do is right. I have. My dh knows I’ve done all I can, and that’s all that matters to me. The rest is mil’s loss.

Tbh, if I’d had someone tell my dd cousins this, and they weren’t able/willing to tackle it, I bloody well would! ...but I’m older than you and my ds is a massive teen, I’ve already had to fight some fights, and actually I’m NC with my mother and low (CBA) Contact with my father.

The reason why people pull this shit is because people don’t challenge it enough

I’d call Mil myself and say that it’s been reported that she’s trying to get sneak photos and telling a young child a pack of lies. I’d her
that phones work in both directions, but with her latest stunt she can whistle if she thinks she’s getting a welcome at your door.

If she’s prepared to apologise for the lies and manipulation of a child, if she can - like everyone else- take responsibility for maintaining her own contact with you/your family then she gets another chance, it’s up to her.

Ball back in her court and you don’t Have to do a thing

The family know she lies yet choose to believe her when she says she's being excluded?

You've tried but you've got better things to do than pander to her. Your husband needs to tell his family that she's lying again and they need to shush.

With DH's siblings, if I were he, I'd be saying to them that when I want their advice or input into my relationship with my mother, I'd ask them, and meanwhile they can keep their sticky beaks out - and remind them that they know bloody well what Mum is like, and more fool them for being sucked into her games and drama-llama'ing.

but situations like this tend to be ignored because if confronted about lying which has been done in the past she just cries and then gets hysterical and accuses everyone of ganging up on her which just escalates the drama.

This is the weapon threat of mass destruction that Narcs deploy to control everyone - the threat of RAGE. They don’t have to actually escalate to rage very often as they just create enough tension to keep everyone on eggshells 24/7........and because no one wants to be the person that triggered it everyone adapts their own behaviours to tolerate and enable her irrational and bad behaviours.

But you know their rages are really not that scary - if you know it is coming and are calm and don’t get drawn into any escalation - she will just look like the loon. Look at her like a big toddler having a tantrum. Just walk away until she blows herself out.

You are right the others don’t want the extra burden of her as your DH has stepped back - it’s not because they think her behaviour is appropriate and you are wrong - they just need you and DH to keep dowsing the flames.

So have ZERO guilt for your appropriate actions. Only guilt you should have is letting her activity preoccupy and pollute your thoughts, feelings and time - feel proud that you can see what is going on and you will defend your lovely little family from her toxicity and stealing your joy.

Keep doing that. You don’t have to defend / justify your actions with the siblings.

I think I'd do all conversations through the watts app group so that others can see the effort you put in. If they choose to go all flying monkey for her then you can just ask them to reread the thread.

Re Mother's Day, I'd have put on there, hi mil we saw you last year on the day so this year we're visiting my mum on the day. We'd love to see you on the sat. Are you free?

Then there'll be radio silence from her, but that's up to her. You can't fix her you can only be reasonable. And put dd pics on there that you're happy to share etc. But other than that I really cba

Your update about the lying and manipulation of a child to get secret photos and causing the child extreme emotional distress is v v seriously toxic and disordered.

Another level.
Game changer.
Keep well away.
You have no idea what she could do to your baby. My sister is a Narc - I have caught her pinching a newborn.

The fact that your SIL can’t see or feel able to protect her own child or address it with the MIL shows how deeply enmeshed the family is. This is their normal.

I agree Gutterton it’s classic behaviour. The wailing and gnashing of teeth when challenged, the FIL distancing himself from her, the punishing silences, the my way or the highway approach.

I agree with@Gutterton too.

Absolutely toxic.
Will not change.

Poisonous influence in your lives.

You will hugely regret expending energy on her toxicity.

Your baby's first year will be gone in a blink....don't waste a moment further of it on her.

I wouldn't engage nor entertain any further conversation, to her, about her.

Speak to the 🤚, because my face is no longer interested.

Wishing you well OP.

OP you sound so lovely and generous, putting in all that effort for the grandparents, even posting photos to them. I'm glad 4 out of 5 appreciate it!

I do agree with previous comments advising that you won't be able to change your MIL's behaviour or mindset. I would take a step back to give your mind a rest, and let your husband manage the relationship with his family, whilst supporting him if he needs it.

It must feel awful to think your husband's family might think badly of you, but likewise you have little control over their opinions and actions. It's down to them to manage their relationship with their mother/MIL particularly the ones whose daughter she was lying to and manipulating.

Put your energy into enjoying the time with your daughter - congratulations! And enjoy your first Mother's Day with her and your mum!

billy1966 is bang on.

This magical first year (and the next) will fly by in a flash.

Suck it up, wallow in every glorious minute - you have all earned it.

Literally turn your back on anyone and everyone who wants to distract and deprive you of these moments.

Her being “difficult” is a massive understatement. Seems that somehow the arrival of your beautiful baby girl triggered her into a deep toxic rage. The seething, sulking, scheming is unhinged.

You've all given great advice so I'm going to check out some of those websites and just enjoy my DD

I very much suspect that the pressure will be on again post Mother's Day and we'll be invited to a meet up where MIL will be sprung on us as a "surprise". I'm going to try to avoid this as then the expectation will be to ignore everything that has been said and DH will be expected to step up and start the contact merry go round again whereby he has to contact her many times before she may respond and I'll be expected to organise and host the next get together which frankly I don't feel like doing right now!

The classic ‘you can’t change anyone else but you can change yourself’ rule us applicable here.

Your DH should make one invitation, if no response then he leaves a message to say he’ll wait to hear from her. Then wait.

By all means host a get-together but don’t pander your her, do what you want to do.

Good for you.

Just drop the rope on their silly games which are facilitating her psychodrama and abuse of you, your DD, your DH.

Once you do a little bit of research you will not be able to “un-see” all of the toxic nonsense, as her behaviours and the dynamics she triggers in the family are v obvious and cliched. And you will learn that it is impossible for you to change this toxic dance - you just need to step right out of it.

She will though, try to goad you, blame you, trick you either directly or indirectly through the siblings. She wants a fight with you - so that she can blame you - don’t give it to her.

Keep dignified, distant, detached.

As PP has said keep any communications “factual and friendly and boundaried.” I would also add in “transparent” to all so that there is no element of doubt - ie within the WA group - so that she is exposed. Even if she contacts you one to one - respond via the group if possible. Eg to the group “MIL has suggested x, y, z or just sent this text ..... so just sharing our response with you all together which is blah, blah” This is would be from DH obviously.

But overall, try not to get drawn in or consumed by it. Make clear decisions for the next few months that you will minimise contact. No one gets to behave this despicably with no consequences. Clearly FIL and other family and friends (including your DH) have taken steps already as they have the measure of her.

Take yourself out of punching distance.

Expect a big (fictitious) health scare any time soon to get you both to come running.

Don’t rise to it.

Put your barriers up firmly and then wipe her from your mind so that you give all of your headspace and finite emotional energy positively to your little family and are not drained and distracted by this loon!

If you want to go to a Meetup then that's lovely. But just because you see her doesn't mean people can make you do what they want. Go and be chipper and call out any shit.

Thanks again all, it's amazing what some outside perspective and helpful advice can do. It's also been really helpful to hear that I'm not the only one with this type of issue!

I've been doing a bit of research this afternoon and it's fair to say that my eyes are wide open now!

More importantly I've had a lovely cuddly time with DD without worrying, overthinking or trying to find a solution and that's down to you lovely lot

Currently feeling strong and confident in my approach to MIL so long may it continue

On mother's day, switch your phone off and unplug the house phone if you have one. Go out early to your mother's and don't go back til late. She can't interrupt then.