Emotionally abusive marriage and horrible divorce, have recently dated someone, that ended, don't know how to handle it. LONG.

[Helpmechangemymindsetplease]

Hi

I would really appreciate some help with getting out of the awful mindset that I am in.

Basically and to cut a long story short, I was with my exh for 22 years, and that marriage ended in a horrible divorce due to his long silent treatments of me (up to 8 weeks each time), the fact that I walked on eggshells around him and could not discuss anything of any importance without him getting angry, and the fact that he refused to consider me an equal partner in financial terms – all assets in his name only etc…

The second half of the marriage was lonely, very lonely, with things becoming progressively more and more toxic between us. There was no physical affection, and very little sex (always instigated by me when it did happen, which was soul destroying). Ex moved out almost two years ago now, but we were in the same house but estranged a year and a half prior to that.

Over the past year I have joined a few dating sites and then always un-joined as they are so depressing. Until December of last year I had never been on a date. However I did meet someone online whose profile I really liked, and did start messaging him and we then met at the end of December. In total we went on 7 dates, and I really enjoyed them as he is funny, interesting etc… There is so much which I liked about him. I wasn’t sure where we were headed or if we should be headed anywhere, but I definitely would have given things longer as I think OLD moves too fast and creates artificial pressure. I knew I found him attractive and wanted to get closer, but slowly. I think he interpreted my shyness as lack of interest, but I told him that no I did find him attractive and he said the same to me. However, he felt constrained by what I had been through in the past and the fact that this was essentially my first date ever (!) apart from my exh, and didn’t really make a move, and I felt incredibly shy and constrained by the fact that he didn’t make a move, so neither of us really made a move and maybe that wasn’t supposed to happen. But, I cannot stress how much I liked him.

After date 7 he messaged me to say that he was sorry, he felt that he had messed me around, but he felt that he wasn’t ready to date (following his most recent break up a year ago) and that another ex had also unexpectedly contacted him. All this may or may not have been true, that’s not really the point, he said that he didn’t feel right about dating me basically. He said lots of nice things about me and I to him and we mutually agreed that we would be friends instead.

Cue two and a half weeks of feeling bereaved and wondering why the fuck I had put myself in this position – dating was supposed to be a nice thing (in theory), not lead to feeling shit. One good thing about not seeing him anymore is that I stopped being so anxious between dates (would there be another one etc…). That anxiety was really debilitating – days spent feeling sick.

Then I made a mistake – I messaged him on Friday to say that I had met a therapist he had recommended to me (someone he had seen in the past) – it was to say thank you for the recommendation, and in some ways I was thinking that this is totally something I would tell a friend, especially the friend who had recommended them to me in the first place. It was a breezy hope things are going well and thank you for the recommendation type of message.

Shouldn’t have sent it as though he responded politely and kindly, the tone was different and much more detached. As far as I am concerned I have remained the same because in any case we were only ever friends so why would I need to change the way I communicate?

Second mistake, I should have just briefly said thank you to his message, but I expanded a bit, still very general kind of stuff. Eventually he replied with reference to part of that message (which he always used to do anyway, his messages were always brief), and I then countered that with a yes you’re right type of message which did not need an answer. Okay so end of story and I certainly wasn’t going to message him anything else, but I am upset by two things – the changed tone (though polite and kind), and the fact that my last message to him was never “read”. Well I am sure he did read it when it came up on his screen or by pulling down the notification bar, but the two ticks never went blue (I actually hate WhatsApp for how it makes you feel and am considering getting rid of it all together except that there are other people on there that I don’t want to lose touch with). I think he must have cleared the chat without opening that last message (which doesn’t matter as it did not need an answer). So I have archived the whole chat at my end as I cannot bear to look at these grey ticks, really symbolic of not being important anymore. I should clear the whole chat myself, but I don’t want to do that as so much of it was so nice – sending each other photos, links to things, chatting etc… And some of the really nice things he said to me. It feels as if this will be the one and only time that this kind of thing happens to me.

Part of me is upset because some of the things he said during the dates were really his setting up some kind of relationship between us. He talked as if we would be getting together. Also, after years of being lonely, I now feel much lonelier than I did before I met him – it was this brief taste of what it might feel like to be liked and found attractive, and now it is totally gone, leaving me feeling much more bereft that I did before. Additionally, even though it is categorically not the same (I know this rationally), I feel like I did when my ex was ostracising me. I am also upset that several times he (my online date) said about being friends, but I am wondering if he meant this or what his version of being friends might be?? Then there is the feeling that I won’t meet anyone with the attributes of his that I really liked. That he is the only person in the world who has them, and somehow I blew it. Yes because there is also going over what I may have said and/or done to put him off. I get embarrassed thinking of how I might have come across on different occasions, and that then becomes kind of obsessive because I cringe away internally. I can’t get rid of the feeling that maybe he now hates me, but I will never be able to check if that’s true or not.

Even more irrational is the fact that I didn’t like everything everything about him – I liked loads, but not everything. I certainly liked enough to want to be firm friends but I guess not everyone is looking for or has the time for more friends, and my version of friendship is probably different to his. And I feel somehow disposable. I guess he was used to doing a lot more dating than I was, and had also been in many more relationships, so it will have meant much less to him. He has quickly consigned me to the past, yet I am hanging on to our messages as proof that someone likes/liked me. I also really liked the way he expressed himself. In my lonely existence I guess it felt like drops of water when you are parched dry. Except now I am back to being parched dry, but having tasted what a brief drink felt like.

Basically I was not strong enough to do any dating, but when and how will I be strong enough, I don’t have all this time?? There was also the issue of my lack of experience – exh is my one and only partner, and I know that the guy I dated found this strange and difficult to handle just as a general idea. Told me a few times that he had had dozens of girlfriends, and was then kicking himself for having said that. That did kind of ring alarm bells for me because I figured that even if we had got together, it might have been quite short lived, and I definitely would not have been able to cope with a break up.

Have felt down (as if there is no point to anything and the only people who would miss me are my kids, that otherwise I may as well not be here) especially at the weekend, and none of this is helped by the fact that I am between jobs. I guess it was something to do with being seen by someone, and I am now back to being invisible. I have had years of not mattering to exh and being cut off from him while we lived together. Now since we are divorced we are of course still cut off so I just permanently outcast, like some kind of pariah, even though I know that there are nice things about me and I have stuff to offer in a potential relationship. And what do I do about the chat between me and my online date - with the grey ticks that I have archived but still think about? It is sitting in there, tormenting me. Proof of now meaning nothing.

I guess that the relationship between exh and I really did me a lot of damage – years of being subjected to the silent treatment two or three times a year (which, when the silent treatments go on for 6 to 8 weeks, is a significant proportion of time). It feels as if I have been lonely and unloved forever. And I don't know if you ever get over the breakdown of your family unit. I wanted to get divorced because I did not want our dc to think that this was a model of a loving relationship, but even so, I don't think that breakdown is an injury which you ever get over?

With the online person, I feel that we spent so much time together and could now easily be friends as we did have a lot in common, and can’t wrap my head around the fact that people can be so detached and kind of deliberate in their choices. I know that really I should not be talking about him in the same breath as my exh, whom for many years (before it went pear-shaped) I loved a lot, and had an actual relationship with.

I don’t even know what I am asking – I guess all the reasons why I shouldn’t be upset that the dates with this person stopped?? Or how to stop feeling so bloody lonely and how to stop cringing about things I may have said or done that put him off, and how to stop feeling so bloody bereft and kind of cut off.

Can’t really do OLD again I don’t think, as I don’t see how you go on that many dates without getting attached to an extent. I guess that IRL, you might meet someone as a friend and get to know them without the pressure of wondering about other stuff and it being a race against time to prove that there is a spark….

I met up with a friend who is 20 years younger than me at the weekend, and her take on part of it was that in my time (!), if you dated someone you generally got together with them. (Not sure if this is actually true, but it’s true that exh and I met and then spent 22 years together. And though the divorce was horrible and I felt really bereaved for ages, I have always known why we had to separate.) It’s true that online dating has done something not very nice to potential relationships IMO – people seem so disposable, and there also seems to be the pressure to jump into bed with people before feelings have really built up – a kind of litmus test to see if a relationship has legs, rather than sex coming out of mutual affection and attraction that might take longer to grow. She was telling me that you get used to it – the sex on a casual basis, but I am sure that I never would. It seems like a frightening jungle out there, in which everyone has more experience than I do.

Anyway, if you have read this far, congratulations and thank you !!!

Well done on getting out of the abusive relationship and for putting yourself out there with OLD. This particular relationship didn't work out and, that's ok. Don't worry about messaging him, we've all been there and it's nothing to be embarrassed about.

I'm glad to hear you've found a therapist, that sounds like a really good move at the moment. It sounds as though you need support working on your self esteem and processing your previous relationship.

I would take a step back from dating at the moment, especially online dating which can be brutal. You're right about relationships becoming more and more disposable. However, you have to remember that there are decent people out there. People who do want relationships and don't treat people like throw away items.

Have you tried something like meetup.com? It's where you can look up group activities in your area, it's free and a good way of meeting people. The best way of using OLD is alongside other strategies like meetup, courses, social activities, travel etc

Thanks @12345kbm. What do you think I should do about the WhatsApp chat and the horrible grey ticks? Just clear it all?

I get waves of this horrible panicky bereaved feeling .

Just clear it all off your phone and block him. Work on yourself for a while in therapy. Look after yourself with fresh air, exercise, good, nutritious food, yoga, meditation etc Build up a support network and focus on the future where you're in a relaxed happy frame of mind and ready to share your life again.

I might clear it (once I get the courage to do that, feel kind of sick thinking about it), but I don’t want to block him as he was/is very kind and I don’t want to get in the way of any potential future friendship we might have. Might be away with the fairies here, but hey ho. In any case he hasn’t done anything to warrant being blocked - he is a genuinely nice person who is just a lot more detached than I am.

Work on yourself for a while in therapy. Look after yourself with fresh air, exercise, good, nutritious food, yoga, meditation etc Build up a support network and focus on the future where you're in a relaxed happy frame of mind and ready to share your life again.

Yes, I will try.

(And I really appreciate your messages @12345kbm, thank you.)

Hi OP, I’m sorry you’ve had this disappointment after finally extricating yourself from your debilitating marriage.

You know in your heart that the online man can’t possibly be the only one in the world who you can get on with. If you found one, you’ll find another for sure. Hang on to that idea, and the knowledge that he found you attractive and would probably have progressed things further if circumstances had been different.

While holding these two ideas in your heart, work on making sure other people than just your DC think you’re important. Get another job. And really work at friendships. Also, be physically active as much as you can, as this helps sleep and self-esteem.

I agree with you about not blocking, the guy has done nothing wrong. But delete his number and the chat completely. It’s honestly the best way to move on.

You may already have dipped your toe into the topsy turvy world of the dating thread on MN. If not, have a look at the rules and give them some thought. Everyone is unique and goes about finding happiness in their own way, nothing is right or wrong per se. But the support and kindness on that thread have helped many a person move from being lost to being found.

Best of luck.

I think this is one of those occasions where the old cliche "plenty more fish in the sea" is absolutely appropriate. While it may be true that once you tended to end up in relationships with everyone you dated, it was also true that you wouldn't start out by dating a complete stranger - they'd be friends of friends, or people you'd chatted to at work or in the pub - so you weren't starting from the same place.

I'd say it's rather unusual to have got to 7 dates nowadays without "making a move" - does this mean you didn't even kiss? Anyway I can think of plenty of people I've met a similar amount of times, got on well with, become friendly with then never spoken to or seen again. It's not a reflection on them, but the situation changed (left a short-term job, finished a course) etc and even though the friendship was real at the time, it didn't have the foundations to be enduring. I'd say that's how he sees it.

Thanks for your messages @TigerDater and @michaelbaubles.

Get another job. And really work at friendships. Also, be physically active as much as you can, as this helps sleep and self-esteem. - yes I will try, I guess in the first instance it’s just about making yourself do it, so in my case trying to override the constantly feeling sick in the hope that one day it will go away.

While it may be true that once you tended to end up in relationships with everyone you dated, it was also true that you wouldn't start out by dating a complete stranger - no I know. I didn’t mean that I thought I was duty bound a relationship with my online date - not at all, and in fact I didn’t know if that would have been the right thing or not. It’s more that I guess I preferred the era in which OLD didn’t exist - where you did meet people as friends first etc..

There were two awkward kisses. This is the thing, the fact that he felt weird about my lack of experience made me feel weird, and I now feel even more self-conscious about it. I take your point about the friendship thing.

You poor thing, it's obvious you're hurting and time will heal, even if you don't think that at the moment.

I'm going to be blunt but I mean well....
You can never be 'just friends' That is really really not going to work. You want more than he does, end of. He probably knows that and that's why the just being friends bit never came to fruition.

He actually didn't do the dirty on you, and for that you have to be grateful. OLD is brutal so my friends tell me who are going through it. And this guy has been honest with you, and although there was a change in tone on his whatsapps, he wasn't horrible, he hasn't ignored you. He acknowledged your messages and they came to a natural end.
Forget the silly grey ticks, he read it on the front of the screen. Grey ticks mean nothing.
And on that note.... be brave, and stop reading through old messages. You will just torture yourself. I bet you wake in the night and read them, and read them before falling asleep and read them when you wake up. Don't! Consign them to memory that you can blot out at some point.

You sound so lovely and genuine, I'm just not sure if you're ready for more OLD at the moment. I agree with pp's... try and get yourself out there and heal yourself, you've been through a lot.

Meant to add.... be brave and delete all old messages, it will be painful but worth it in the end. Good luck

He actually told you that another ex had unexpectedly contacted him?
Well, let him go running back to her then, and let you move on with your life.

Delete the WhatsApp conversation and don't give him any more headspace.

The long silent treatments from your XH sound particularly cruel and I've no doubt has had a massive effect on you. Work through this with your therapist, and when you're feeling stronger and better, I think you'll be ready to think about seeing other people

Hi OP,
I am 4 years out of a marriage which had similarities to yours - lots of long periods of sulking and walking on eggshells which ultimately destroyed my feelings for him.

Everyone is different but it took me 2 years before I was ready to try dating sites and then a further year of messaging without any meet-ups.

At the beginning of last year I decided to try a subscription (match.com) and had dates with a few men, all of whom were nice but I felt very strongly there was no physical connection. I then met my current DP, we clicked immediately and have been together ever since, just over a year now.

Like you, I used to think I would never find anyone like that and I still feel damaged from the silent treatment from my ex but the reassurance and support from my DP is amazing and has completely turned things around.

I would echo the advice above - follow the dating thread on here and look at different dating sites/meet up options. Don’t feel like you have to have sex with someone straight away, I didn’t even kiss any of my dates before my DP, I just couldn’t but with him it was different straight away.

I really do wish you the very best of luck and remember that at least you are out of a toxic marriage - I feel grateful for that every day.

It does take time - in my case, 2.5 years from end of 26 year marriage before it even crossed my mind to consider dating. A lot of processing had to be done.

He actually didn't do the dirty on you - I know - he was upfront and open.

I bet you wake in the night and read them, and read them before falling asleep and read them when you wake up.. No I really don’t - I have looked at the last one we sent each other 3 weeks ago a couple of times and I looked at some yesterday thinking I didn’t want to forget the nice things he had said (🙄😳), but actually, it’s quite painful, and now they are archived and I can’t open the archive 🙄.

You sound so lovely and genuine, I'm just not sure if you're ready for more OLD at the moment. thank you @Roussette 😊, and you’re right - I can’t go getting emotionally attached in this way again. The fallout feels so uncomfortable.

Thank you for your message @AlwaysOnAbloodyDiet - I think you are right on all counts.

I really do wish you the very best of luck and remember that at least you are out of a toxic marriage - thanks a lot @NanBoleyn, and for your encouraging message. Yes, being out of a toxic marriage is priceless, and I am sorry you went through the same.

A lot of processing had to be done. - yes, I guess it kind of can’t be avoided @TigerDater.

I guess I feel embarrassed/ashamed that I made myself vulnerable in this way, and like an idiot - kind of what on earth was I thinking??

The thing which I find hardest is that before the online dating I was on such an even keel - work / house / kids / keep going / keep going. Then this has opened a kind of awful Pandora’s box of historic hurt and feelings of shame and inadequacy, and it’s as if I have lost my centre and am no longer grounded. With the added kick in the teeth of now feeling kind of bereaved and ruminating over everything I think I could have done differently or said or not said 🙄.

Hi OP. I can feel your pain through your posts. It's palpable. Please know that you are just as worthy of a relationship as the next person, however it has got to be on your terms, if that makes sense.
I, like you, was in an emotionally abusive abd stressful marriage. It's taken me 3 years since he finally moved out to feel I have my rightful place in the dating game.

What has helped me is to take time out to thoroughly work on myself, what my triggers are, and how I respond to others (and what that signifies in terms of my esteem and self-compassion)

I read a brilliant book recently by Brenee Brown about vulnerability. It's called Daring Greatly. It's a wonderfully uplifting, uncomfortable yet hopeful read.

When we date we are making ourselves vulnerable, and we need to get to a place where we're ok with it when it doesn't work out.

Look at it this way, you've survived divorce. You can and will survive this. I promise. Trust yourself.

Please know that you are just as worthy of a relationship as the next person, however it has got to be on your terms, if that makes sense.

Yes it completely does make sense @aufaitaccompli. And I have the feeling that my terms will be different to those of a lot of people who are online dating, and maybe also difficult for some people to wrap their heads around.

I think you are right about the amount of time it takes to be in the right place, but I guess I had to find out the hard way after emotionally investing in my date . Even though I know it’s the name of the game, I feel a kind of sense of betrayal that he could seem so kind and interested and chatty etc, and then nothing, the door is metaphorically closed in your face.

Funnily enough I recently bought the Brenee Brown book, but haven’t read it yet.

Look at it this way, you've survived divorce. You can and will survive this. I promise. Trust yourself.

Thank you (and for the flowers) and I totally agree - and divorce was huge trauma. But in an odd way, though 7 dates are not comparable to a 22 year relationship and should hopefully fade into a memory hole I hope (the 7 dates), there is something much more final about the dates ending. Exh will always somehow be in my life, or known about, due to our dc.

I know there is no comparison between a marriage and some dates so I don’t know why I am doing it, but I guess it feels relevant.

I guess passing time will mean I forget and it ceases to have any meaning. In the same way that you do a course with other people, and a year later you can’t remember the names of your fellow students. Also, I hardly knew this person really, and he may have been totally not right for me as well as flaky as far as I know, so as nice as he was/is, I may have dodged a potentially much more painful bullet?

@Helpmechangemymindsetplease... You have had some excellent advice here and I'm glad you are taking it on board. I would just add that the therapy you are having ought to focus on YOU, and not on unravelling the minutiae of your brief relationship with this man.

You already know that you over-invested far too soon and in any case are not yet ready for the jungle that is OLD. Tell yourself that you were really lucky that he was so considerate, and then archive the messages and delete his number. Put all thought of being just friends out of your head; you know this isn't realistic.

I would also suggest that you read Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood. [I know I keep recommending this book, but it has become a classic and contains a lot of useful insights even for those of us who are not extreme in our dependence on unavailable men...]

I'm in a similar situation to you and find that nurturing friendships with other women and keeping busy with activities that give me joy are the best ways of getting over the feeling of being lonely and bereft.

As far as your counselling sessions are concerned, I think you ought to focus on building self-esteem and resilience. You can also find a lot of useful podcasts and videos online, plus books from the library. Just knowing that you are not the only person struggling with this can be strangely liberating.

This is a supportive thread. You don't know how far you've come op. I was abused by my stbxh for 3 years and it's traumatic and needs a lot of processing. You learn so much about yourself enduring and ending a toxic relationship you should pat yourself on the back. Don't minimise the trauma you went through. Also you have dipped your toe in the dating water so you know one day you will be ready to do that again. You're stronger than you give yourself credit for, so enjoy getting excited about getting to know and learning to love YOU.

Firstly you are very brave for going through what you have been through, and getting out of an abusive marriage. I'm in a similar situation to you, came out of a long abusive marriage, decided to date, the first man I met we just clicked straight away. He tired to kiss me on the first date but I didn't want to, then again on the second, again I wouldn't! I just felt too insecure. He stuck with me though and eventually I did kiss him and we've been pretty solid ever since. So, what I'm trying to say is, if he's the right guy, he will be ok with your awkwardness, he will wait. I get why you are gutted, but you know you will get over it, and then you can meet someone who just gets you.

No I really don’t grin - I have looked at the last one we sent each other 3 weeks ago a couple of times and I looked at some yesterday thinking I didn’t want to forget the nice things he had said (🙄😳), but actually, it’s quite painful, and now they are archived and I can’t open the archive 🙄

That is excellent! When I talked of forever reading those messages, I was probably thinking of a friend of mine who got herself in a bit of a mess with someone. You are getting there, especially if you can't read them even if you wanted to!

So many brave people on this thread.

Thanks so much for your kind messages @Roussette, @FlowerArranger, @toastbutter, and @yesterdaystotalsteps123.

I could open the archive, but I would then see the grey ticks and it feels too crap at the moment. So they can stay in the archive for the time being, along with other chats I have put in there.

I guess it will have to be a case of making myself think about things other than all of this - any time some thought bubbles up, I will smother it with other thoughts.

Had I realised that this kind of pain (whether rightly or wrongly) is what I would be letting myself in for, I would have kept away from any kind of dating. More fool me, but now I know!

This on rejection is good IMO - hard to listen to in a way, but true. And yes, it's Russell Brand in his new incarnation as a modern day guru!

This is a supportive thread.. Yes it really is, thank you very much, and I will be regularly re-reading it. I am sorry that I haven’t mentioned all points that people have made, but I have read all of it.

I am also sorry that so many have also been in abusive marriages that they have had to leave .

Good luck for the future.

@Helpmechangemymindsetplease..... You'll get there!!