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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Oh dear, what have I done...?

52 replies

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:04

I've posted about my relationship confusion before. I'm back. Dh and I had a serious talk last night including his reassertion of his idea that if dd cries without motive, he should "give her something to cry about for real". I was very firm in my expression of disgust for any type of physical punishment, especially for someone so young (dd = 19mo) and told him that I'm afraid to leave her alone with him ,that I'm scared of his anger. He got really upset, shut down, left the house and when finally came home he slept on the couch and now he's not talking to me. Well, he's talking, as such, but not communicating. Maybe I was too harsh but how can you gently tell someone that you are afraid of leaving your dd with them? I'm wondering if this is the beginning of the end. I think this is the beginning of something. It has the chance to be the kick necessary to make some changes but I fear it's put the wheels in motion towards the other direction... I feel numb. What have I done...

I think I just need a hug, please?

OP posts:

harleyd · 04/09/2007 17:05

((((((((hug))))))))

LucyJones · 04/09/2007 17:05

Did he really mean what he said or was it just a throwaway comment when he was stressed or she was being whingey?
If you really think he would hurt her I would leave.

NAB3 · 04/09/2007 17:08

You did the right thing saying how you felt.
PLease don't back track or give in, just to get him to talk to you again.

"What have I done?" What you have done is stick up for your child's rights to not be hit.

I had this said about me as a child and it was awful. Smacking when a child has done something is a mind field and a different discussion. What he said seems more like going too far in a physical sense. 19 months is too young for more than a gentle no in terms in discipline imo.

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:09

Thank you, harleyd

Do I really think he would hurt her, not exactly. Would he spank her, yes. I hope he wouldn't hurt her for real but part of me worries about it. And, I just don't want spanking in her life. But, he's very adamently in favour of it.

One of his arguments last night was that she needs to "respect him" - aka if he tells her not to do something, she needs to not do it. But, I countered that spanking is not gaining respect, it's creating fear. He's not convinced. BTW - he was spanked as a child.

OP posts:

LucyJones · 04/09/2007 17:10

but spanking is hurting

NAB3 · 04/09/2007 17:11

So he will say it never did him any harm no doubt.

She is more likely to hate him if he hits her, not show respect. She is a baby fgs. I feel if you don't want to use smacking as a punishment than he shouldn't smack her. He needs to find a different way.

Nbg · 04/09/2007 17:11

I think you need to get across to him what your issue is and that from what he said, your presuming that he means physcial punsihment and that you as her mother do not want that for your dd.

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:13

Part of me wants to try to make it all better. The other part of me wants to take the ball and run with it and get out of the relationship here and now. But, I'm scared. And, sad. Maybe he can change? Maybe... But, then, I don't know if he wants to...

OP posts:

NAB3 · 04/09/2007 17:15

It isn't up to you to make things better for him. You can help him, but only if he wants you too.

Clearly you need to do a lot of talking. I wish you luck.

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:17

Yes, he says that "I was spanked, I'm fine" which doesn't hold. Someone who wants to hit a 19mo is not fine in my books.

I have made it very clear to him that I am 100% against it.

He comes back to "we are from very different upbringings" (which we are!) but that isn't enough.

Spanking is hurting, I agree. When I wrote hurt I suppose I meant beat or hurt more severely than a spank.

I don't think that spanking makes the child hate the parent but it does make them fear them. And, I don't want that kind of atmosphere for her.

OP posts:

Budababe · 04/09/2007 17:19

I have to say that I have smacked my DS (am not proud of it btw) and have also said "I will give you something to cry about" in the heat of the moment. But not at 19 months. That is still a baby.

You need to sit down and have a discussion about your parenting. Tell him you don't agree with smacking and that you both need to agree strategies for any discipline that is needed in the future. She will respect him more if he is not smacking her. My DH is a lot calmer than me and my DS goes to pieces if DH is cross with him - nd DH doesn't even need to raise his voice. I on the other hand shout a lot and DS just ignores it. The last couple of times I smacked him he just shouted "that didn't hurt". It didn't get either of us anywhere funnily enough.

lulumama · 04/09/2007 17:19

he's not fine though, is he?

he wants to physically hit a toddler , to make them hurt, so that they have something to cry about

he is emotionally stunted, holding a lot of anger, and you cannot trust him with your child.

he is behaving like a child by sulking

you are not too harsh....

cestlavie · 04/09/2007 17:19

Not sure what to say I'm afraid except that I'm completely with you and think it's absolutely shocking that he'd consider even spanking her. I'm usually pretty laid back about things on here and encourage people to see the other person's side, but my son is 21 months old and the concept of smacking him is abhorrent.

At this age, as you know, they're only just learning right and wrong and smacking in this regard is appalling - the use of it to instil respect shows, at least to me, a complete failure to understand what parenting is about. You simply don't earn respect by hitting a child although you can certainly instil fear - only an idiot would confuse the two.

So, you're certainly not being too harsh. You're doing absolutely the right thing and putting your child first. You deserve a big hug. Your partner deserves a very hard kick in the bollocks and then some.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/09/2007 17:22

Perhaps you should "give him something to sulk about"?

Sorry, thats flippant I know, but, if he thinks that is how you teach a child fullstop (and that is not to say I havent smacked either of my two on occasion), then perhaps it needs to be translated into a language he does understand?

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:23

But, the thing is, the "give you something to cry about" was not in the heat of the moment. DD was asleep and we were having a serious talk about a host of issues in our marriage (many of which surround his interactions with dd). I can begin to understand (but not condone) getting stressed in the moment and saying something like that but not when it's part of an attitude towards parenting.

OP posts:

Hurlyburly · 04/09/2007 17:25

lulumamma said it all.

HappyDaddy · 04/09/2007 17:27

The fact is that you are against it. Why is he so adamant about doing something that you don't agree with? He sounds controlling, to me, his way or the highway.

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:30

VVV - I don't know how to put it in a language that he'll understand. It doesn't sink in. Or, he takes my arguments against it as being some sort of middle class faff.

I know that I'm not being too harsh in terms of putting it out there, letting him know how strongly I feel. I just worry about the way I worded it. I literally said "I'm afraid to leave her alone with you". Because, I am. But... oh dear.

I think I'm just scared because I know that this argument has started the ball rolling and I don't know what direction it's going to go. In the midst of it, I was partly hoping that he would just decide to leave and that would be that. I don't know what will happen. I don't know if I have it in me to be the one to force the break-up. But, yes, I do. If need be, I will. I just wonder if I should try to work with him to change, assuming that he stops sulking and takes it seriously and wants to change

OP posts:

NAB3 · 04/09/2007 17:32

Maybe he will understand how strongly you feel if you ask him to change or go?

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:34

HappyDaddy - but, if he is against not-spanking, am I not being controlling by insisting that he not-spank? Do you see what I mean? If you truly believe that your way is the right way, one partner insisting on doing it the other way is hard to swallow.

But, controlling or not, I am insisting that he not-spank. It will be, in the end, my way or the highway. Either he changes or we're over. I don't want that type of fear in my child's life. period.

OP posts:

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:35

Cross-posting with NAB. Exactly. I think that became clearer to him last night. We'll see what happens today.

OP posts:

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/09/2007 17:41

I was subtly suggesting that if he doesnt understand, threaten to smack him. But as I said, I was being flippant.

Ask him how he would deal with a work colleague who couldnt grasp something, or kept doing something wrong.

Then ask him why it would be different for a 19 month old.

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:47

Thanks, VVV. That's helpful (the work colleague analogy, not the smacking )

I find it sometimes difficult to argue against smacking because I believe so strongly in it. I just can't get my head around the arguments in favour of smacking so I can't think of creative counter-arguments. "Why shouldn't you smack?" - "Because it's wrong FFS, you eejit!"
Not the most productive of arugments.

OP posts:

3littlefrogs · 04/09/2007 17:48

Hitting a child is wrong. You are absolutely correct to be uneasy and you must not allow your dh to undermine your confidence/judgement.

The major factor in cases of non-accidental injury - ie violence against children is an unrealistic expectation of a child's understanding or behaviour. A child under 3 is just a baby.

You are a good mother, and you are concerned about your child. Your DH sounds like a bully - perhaps his own experiences in childhood are to blame, but that is no excuse for him to hit his child.

He needs help - you both need help. Maybe your HV or GP could help, or perhaps you could talk anonymously to the NSPCC.

So sorry you are in this situation.

Original poster

mediocrity · 04/09/2007 17:59

Thank you all for your support. I'm feeling a bit better. And, stronger. I need to stand firm on this.

I'm going offline for a bit but will be back later today.

OP posts:

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