Abusive husband and mutual friends

[sleepyhorse]

Going through a really rubbish time at the mo. Some of you may remember my post early January where I explained about dh behaving appallingly and having a mezzanine built in with some crazy steps in dc’s bedroom, against my wishes. Things got nasty and as a result our relationship has broken down and I’ve been sleeping in guest room ever since.

For me there is no going back as he’s shown no remorse for his behaviour and still blames me for everything. He has been abusive for many years now and after reading an article the other day about narcissistic personality disorder he literally ticks every box. Divorce is something I’m looking into.

Anyway what I’m really struggling with how the dynamic of our mutual friends is changing. He goes out a lot more than me and apparently he’s been slagging me off to mutual friends saying some really nasty things about me which has got back to me. In the meanwhile when some friends of mine whose husbands are friends with him ask me how I am, that they’re worried about me etc and that they are there for me if I need to chat. So when I have confided in a few of them who I trust and have known for a long time about how he has been, for example calling me “a stupid cunt and a fucking arsehole” which is one of the latest during an argument the other day. I get from them “oh so sorry you are having a rough time. I love you both and want to to both be happy” then they just carry on being normal with him drinking at the local. To the point where I now feel awkward walking in the pub. I appreciate people can’t take sides and I’m not expecting people to. But it almost feel like, if he was to punch me in the face, would you still be saying you love us both. How can people not see him for what he is. Perhaps they think I’m making it up. It’s feel like the more I open up to people the more it goes against me. Has anyone else been through something similar? Should I perhaps stop discussing with friends?

When you go through something like a divorce, you really find out who your friends are. I wouldn't be friends with someone who was calling their partner a 'cunt', so it doesn't say much for them does it.

I would work on you OP and try not to react. I know it's hard. Are you getting any support as a divorce is tough. Have you contacted any domestic abuse organisations or contacted the National Helpline? Do you have family or friends you can talk to?

It might help to reach out. Also, please bear in mind that abuse escalates during divorce and it's when you're most vulnerable. Please get some advice on staying safe.

Ask people not to repeat what he's saying and keep a log of any abuse. I'm sorry you're going through this.

12345 - I agree I really don’t think I could be friendly with someone who was calling their partner “a cunt” and the rest! Don’t get me wrong I’ve got a few friends who have been amazing and not sure how I would have hit through it without them. But the local mums who I got to know over the years and become really friendly with and then off the back of my friendships with them dh got friendly with their dh’s and we live in a small town I guess we’ve formed a group. But I feel like a lot of them seem distant with me, obviously he goes to the pub and slates me and gives his version. So when I have spoken to some mums telling them not to believe what he is saying they have been kind and empathetic yet still carry on like nothing has happened. I just don’t get it!

No one wants to be involved in someone's relationship problems OP. It's hardly surprising they're backing away from it. They've got your partner calling you names and bad mouthing you and then you trying to 'set the record straight' and that's very awkward for them.

Just ask people not to tell you what's going on. Perhaps meet up with your friends in another pub and avoid where your partner goes. I know it seems unfair but it would be less hurtful and difficult, at least for the time being.

You cannot expect them to take sides. They have no idea if either or both of you are lying. They obviously like you both, that's how come you are all friends. If he is behaving normally with them and not offending them then they won't fall out with him. How would it work? They are down the pub and they blank him and when he confronts they say that you said that he said you are a cunt. They will be hearing stuff about you from him.

Stop expecting them to take sides. I wouldn't discuss each other with mutual friends. That's really awkward for them. It means you want them to take sides, which is effectively what you say in your posts. Bitch about each other to mutual friends and they'll avoid you both before long.

I think in a situation like yours, having a few friends who have really got your back and who you can really be honest with, is plenty. So draw those people close. Don't worry about the rest, and especially don't worry about what other people think or bother trying to get into the details with them. You maintaining a dignified silence and refusal to discuss details with a wider circle will ultimately give a far better impression than seeking to speak badly of him (whether it is true or not). Those who want to actively support you will make it clear and don't bother yourself with the rest. They have their reasons and their own situations and it really, really doesn't matter what other people think. Be comfortable both with the possibility that some people may "take his side" and that maintaining a dignified silence is, well, more dignified and people will ultimately appreciate that you don't try to draw them in.

Can't stand fence sitters.
If they're going to sit on the fence they shouldn't say they're worried about her and say they're there if she needs to chat.
They should say nothing.

TorkTork- I’m not expecting people to take sides as I stated already. It’s just that some of these mums have been good friends over the years who I’ve been very loyal to and it’s only recent that dh got friendly with their dh’s and drink in the same local. When I heard he was bad mouthing me, I just wanted to defend myself as it was totally untrue what he’d been saying. Anyway I’ve now learnt that I’m probably better just staying quiet. It’s hard sometimes though as paranoia can get the better of you.

Yes I agree, a dignified silence is probably much more powerful

I went through this particular scenario four times at differing levels of severity.

The biggest, baddest one, I made the decision for people by walking away from absolutely everyone involved with the both of us. I left it to all of those people to have to consciously step over to my side of the divide, if they were willing. I didn't say or ask it, but the people I'm still in touch with now are wonderful and I can trust them. It's taken years to feel that trust despite them essentially choosing a side.

It's always surprising and very sad when particular people prefer to stay embroiled with the drama filled ex and their bullshit. But I walked away from them in the manner I did, because due to the groups nature regarding gossip and scandal, there was no way I was directly feeding into that at the expense of me and my children.

You shouldn't be, or feel, pushed out of the pub and away from friends. But sometimes it takes stepping away to see if someone was really worth it in the first place.

I haven't read the whole thread, just your OP, but I'm sorry to say that all those so called mutual friends who still even tolerate being around him are not friends of yours, in fact, anyone who knows that someone is abusive and continues a friendship with them is contributing to abuse, as they are confirming to the abuser that their behaviour is fine.

I speak from bitter and painful experience, cut these people out immediately.

All that evil takes to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

sleepy
when I have spoken to some mums telling them not to believe what he is saying they have been kind and empathetic yet still carry on like nothing has happened.

You have there described expecting them to take sides. I get where you are coming from. I empathise. You do need to recognise that you do want them to take sides, your side, the right side. I don't blame you, that's human.

It must be horrible seeing others not give a toss about the working of your marriage when the damage from it is so great to you and you are in the middle of tumultuous change.

Dignified silence is definitely the route to the win over the long term.

Dickheads are dickheads and everyone sees it before long because they are dickheads. You'll come out on top with the good people eventually.

The sole exception is your very closest friends, especially those who don't much know or like your DH.

The thing is op, you are expecting them to take sides, you say you're not, but your post is why are they still being friendly with him.

They probably don't wish to get involved in your marital breakdown, and you don't know what he's saying about you.

We have friends whose marriage has ended, they both say the other has done some appalling things, things we don't repeat to the other. What should we do? End our friendship with one or the other? Cast judgement? We are staying neutral and being friends with both.

Another one for dignified silence. It’s so hard because you want everyone to know what an utter arsehole the person is, but then you ended up in a shit slinging contest and no one really wins there.

Please divorce him. That will make the only real statement you need to make.

If it helps I remember your initial thread and think he’s an utter twat.

But you're still living in this same home, your kids are still being exposed to that toxicity and you HAVEN'T filed for divorce.

So if you were telling me those things, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be wondering if it was really so bad then surely you wouldn't be subjecting your children to that. I'd be wondering if you weren't exaggerating somewhat.

Both parties talk shite when they've fallen out. Partly because they believe their own version and partly because they want to be seen as the 'victim' in the scenario.
I wouldn't believe either side 100%.

Actions speak louder than words. If it was so bad, you'd have protected your kids and done something about it. Not just moved bedrooms.

Yes when you go through the worst you find out who your friends are.
A couple I know got divorced and he cheated. I have no problem picking sides. I am so off and distant from the 'new couple' so most likely they know where I stand.
I do understand that some people dont get involved in any form though.

OP a friend who knows about the abuse and heard it herself from his badmouthing and still chooses to be all smiley and neutral with him isnt your friend.
best to leave the whole lot of them behind and move on.

I chose not to stay in contact with mutual friends of my Ex because I didn’t want to have to deal with defending myself.

A friendship purge is not always a bad thing especially if it reduces your exposure to his toxicity.

I went to local Women's Trust group, did not discuss with people that knew both of us. Some figured out by themselves something is very wrong and when asked me how I am I couldn't stop crying. Really horrible PTSD still here.
Thing is abusive people are always manipulative. They can't just openly abuse others however they wish. It's important to them others don't see their true persona. You can't compete with their lifetime experience of that. It's scary especially if they manage to fool your own family.
Apart from very superficial (How are you? Good. Nice to see you. Bye.) I stopped contact with ALL common acquaintances, including my sister and brother, his siblings. But not my parent, parents in law, one of my friends and his adult daughter from his previous marriage. In fact my father in law was first person who saw something is very wrong. He called me and in the middle of conversion he just said 'Is ( name of his son) hurting you?' I wanted to keep it secret from him because he was ill but couldn't help myself and just cried. He told me whatever happens I always will be their daughter.
I had to cut off most of the people even if they might be on my side if I couldn't trust them. It wasn't always that I distrusted them, I just didn't know/ wasn't that I can trust them. Some believed my ex. I don't hold it against them, except my sister who after I asked her for help told me 'no'. If nothing else, he fooled me so much that I married him.
Now, 2 years on, I know new people. Life is good.

I'm sorry OP, I assumed from your OP that you were in the middle of a nasty divorce, had no choice but to live with him and as a result of that he was badmouthing you to anyone who would listen.

You're still with him and haven't started divorce proceedings. So, you're still together and haven't split up. You're just a couple getting everyone else involved in your mud slinging which isn't very classy at all.

Why are you staying with someone calling you a 'cunt'? He obviously despises you.

It's all very well to say that you can't expect people to take sides, but where abuse is involved, there is no neutral. It is frankly unsafe to be in a relationship with anyone who is still happily being his friend.

Think about it - either they believe that he called you those names and treated you badly, in which case they are in effect condoning his abuse. Or they don't believe you. Either way, they are not your friends.

He's ramping up the smear campaign and the one thing I learned was to not fight it, and in fact to laugh when I heard what he said about me.

I went No Contact with everyone who had anything to do with the abusive ex, as well as with him. That is the way forward, and the fastest way to end a smear campaign. Stick with your real friends - the ones who support you.

And get the divorce done ASAP, because until then you are in a horrible position of him being around you all the time.

12345 - Its complicated. We did a project with my mum where we bought a house a couple of years ago and renovated it into 2 houses. It seemed like a really good idea at the time. Crazy I know!!!

Anyway I went to see a divorce solicitor in January who has advised me that until I get the other house signed over into my mums, there is no point in starting divorce proceedings as obviously it means dh could get nasty and fight for a share in her house as the house is currently in my name and as we are married he would be entitled to 50/50 of the whole project (both houses)

So as frustrating as it is I have to do things properly. I have to be patient. This is my mums life savings we are talking about that she’s invested. Hopefully that should all be sorted in next couple of months once a conveyancing solicitor has sorted out all the financial stuff. Once the other house is in her name and nobody can take it away from her then of course I can start thinking about me and the kids. Hope that makes sense!

It does make sense and I would see what I could do to speed things up.

In the meantime, keep away from the pub he hangs out in. Get everything else sorted to make the divorce as quick and painless as possible. I'm sure your solicitor has given you a list of documents to sort out.

I'm also sure you've contacted a domestic abuse organisation and have a safety plan organised and have taken what steps you can to minimise the effects of such a toxic environment on your children.

As humans, our brains do not cope well with cognitive dissonance (when two pieces of evidence conflict). They think of your husband as a nice guy because that's all they've ever seen of him, so it's hard for them to understand when they hear something which contradicts that. It's actually quite hard to say "oh OK - so my existing opinion of this guy must be wrong" and easier just to ignore or diminish the new piece of evidence. Sorry you're going through this OP

Yes it makes sense why you are not initiating divorce yet. Think about it from friends' point of view though.

We've all experienced mates bitching about their boyfriend, we get outraged on their behalf, distance ourselves from the boyfriend, maybe being quite rude, then a few weeks later the mate is all happy smiley with the boyfriend as they decide to try again and she expects us to just forget too, even getting the hump with us for not forgetting. Nobody wants to be in the middle of that. Hence they give a bit of tea and sympathy then act like nothing has changed.

When you eventually take proper irreversible public action yourself, i.e. divorce papers served and he moves out, instead of just complaining I expect you will then see a difference in people's behaviour.

I'm so sorry op. I remember the earlier thread and frankly you're best out of this whole mess, though it's entirely understandable that you must take the tome necessary to sort the houses out.

I'd advice stepping back from these friends. Their values and yours don't match. Perhaps they were friends of convenience, not true friends. I'm sorry for you, but stay strong and you'll come out the other side