Concerning behaviour with DS?

[Crafty11]

DS is 3.5. I left his dad when he was 6 months old. Resulted in me and him living in a refuge. He was emotionally, mentally, financially abusive to me. Over these 3 years I've not been concerned with the way he parents our DS when he has him. He wants to be involved and that's nice for DS. We generally Co parent OK. However a few things recently have concerned me.
A moment ago he called DS and they were chatting. My DS mentioned a programme he had been watching. His dad said why do you like watching that for? You're strange. I said he isn't strange don't call him that. Next the discussed DS birthday cake. He said which one he wanted. His dad then kept saying but you had that last year, why don't you have another one. I jumped in and said he can have the same if he wants what's the problem? When he got off the phone I said to DS don't worry you're not strange and you can have the same cake if you wish. He said why did daddy call me strange. Really struck a nerve with me as my parents would say things like this to me and only know I realise how much the little things damaged me confidence. I'm not over reacting am I? How do I move forward with this stuff so they have a relationship but I protect my DS from this? These are just 2 example

If this situation was BAD ENOUGH to put you in a refuge then you shouldn't be coparenting at all.

Abusive men abuse their children. This is the tip of the iceberg.

Your son cannot have a relationship with an abuser.

This is what you do. You apply immediately for a temporary court order for full residency. This throws it to CAFCASS to determine when and how he should have access.

Get your evidence if being in refuge and file that to the Court. Plus any other photographs, police records etc which support your case. Drs reports.

It will be a long slog. But you need to shore up your legal position.

For the time being, I'd stop phone contact solely based on what you've written.

Ask me for help. I'm going through it right now. Have done for the last 20 months.

No police have ever been involved. Is it not extreme to cut all contact? Don't the family court like the child to have some Contact with the other parent? I don't have concerns for my DS safety as his dad adores him and DS adores his dad. Just some of the things he has said like put downs or the way he parents I don't like.

Really depends how it was said. I call my kids strange all the time, but they call me all sorts too. It’s part of our banter and no one takes it seriously. I also call them beautiful, clever etc. If you take it seriously your son is more likely to think it is meant seriously.
Also, making an alternative suggestion re the cake is fine imo, as long as it’s not persistent. Try not to project your feelings and interpretations onto your son.
Given your ex’s previous behaviour to you, he may be beginning to do similar to your son, but without that context your op doesn’t really concern me.

OP

Give your head a wobble lovely. You said PHYSICAL abuse. Plus lots of others.

Its within CAFCASS's remit to take all DA seriously.

The judge at the direction hearing will make an order based on what you have said and then the fact finding begins. So, he will very probably get some contact but then if that isbt adhered to it gets kicked back.

You cannot coparent with an abuser

75 I didn't say physical abuse anywhere?

Nope. My bad.

Is the rest not enough though?

And refuge?

"How do I move forward with this stuff so they have a relationship but I protect my DS from this?"

You cannot and you do not. Why do you want your son to have a relationship with his abuser of a father?. Your ex has not changed a bit and now he is starting on his son.

Why have you at all allowed a relationship to happen?. Has this really and truly happened out of your own fear, obligation and guilt?. You are not able to fully protect yourself currently from him having power and control over you. That is what abuse is about - power and control. He wants absolute over his son too.

And there's that bloody word adore again too. Your son is probably as afraid of his dad as you are of him. He is learning to appease his father and master the technique of walking on eggshells around him so as to (try to ) not set him off.

Your ex remains abusive towards you and in turn his child. If he was all that bothered about family life to start with then he would not have ever abused you to the point you ended up in a refuge. Abusive men furthermore often use the child to further punish the mother for having the utter gall in his eyes to actually leave him, he thinking that he is a perfect specimen.

If he wants contact then he can take you to court for access.

Attila and I have now BOTH said the same thing.

Your parents also damaged your confidence similarly like your ex is doing to his child now. What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?.

I would suggest you contact both Womens Aid and the Rights of Women organisations and seek their help asap.

No-one sadly saw it at all fit to protect you from abuse but you have your son to consider now and you're the only one he can really count on.

His dad will continue to mess with his child's head just as effectively as he did with yours (and to an extent still does). These men do not suddenly change and or become father of the year; they remain abusive and dangerous to be at all around.

Re male role models your son needs emotionally healthy, consistent and reliable male role models in his life. Your ex is none of those.

Have you reached the stage when you can have a conversation with your son's father about any worries either of you my have? You really need to start by talking to him about this. If you're fearful of him bullying you, manipulating or attempting to undermine you emotionally then he's still controlling things.
I wouldn't go so far as some in saying your son is probably frightened of his dad, there's nothing you've said that suggests that. Your'e also absolutely right, cafcass/family courts start from the premise that children benefit from a relationship with both parents. You don't have evidence of police call outs but you say he was financially and emotionally abusive to the extent you moved out and into a refuge.

That suggests you had no where else to go, for example to parents or other family/friends, so you must have felt desperate and isolated.

You ask how to move forward I'd say arrange to meet him to talk about coparenting. Raise your worries with him. If you feel this can't be at your home, or his, that's a red flag but try a cafe. If it goes badly, you need to find a mediator. Free input is vanishingly rare these days but you could try one of the charities like Bernardoes, nspcc or similar. I'd suggest you try that before involving family courts but don't hesitate to get legal advice. Most good family law firms have properly trained mediators available.

Oh jeez, here come the 0-100 lot again

OP, I completely understand why you're trying to Co parent. I agree, it's beneficial for the chil to have 2 parents that love them and work together to bring that child up. Obviously with abuse, that's completely seperate, but if you are comfortable with his parenting, then you're the judgement call.
For me, both of these episodes, if not said with malice are harmless. I often joke with my son and we have a close a relationship as you can get. Life is not all positive comments, and pare of parenting, I believe, is to equip a child to dela with this. Words are just words. The only power they have is what we give them. It's a standard thing, someone calls you a name, take the power, back, laugh and joke and it's taken away and a good lesson.
Kids do it a school:
'U SMELL!'
'Yes I smell..... Lovely!'

That kind of thing... Hard to type what I mean but hopefully you'll get it.

I think your ex's previous behaviour has your spider senses on full blast, but I think you have a good handle on the situation so far. Please dont let other people shake your confidence. If concerned, perhaps speak to health visitor or therapist or similar.

Good luck OP

Apologies lotsofdogs, my reply shows after yours, and I think your response is well written and quite balanced

Yes but there are ways and ways of saying things. Written down the words can look harmless but we all know that the way things are said is what makes them either lighthearted or controlling.

I think OP should trust her instincts.

Mediation is never recommended to embark upon if the relationship has been abusive in nature. OP is to my mind not safe enough herself to take part in any mediation process. Time and time again this is suggested and there is much evidence on here to suggest that such with abusive men is a bad idea. OP herself ended up in a refuge because of this man, do you still think that mediation is still a good idea.

Totally agree with AttilaTheMeetkat.

And as to the PP who said coparenting is God...

Only in UNABUSIVE relationships.

I am not scared of my ex any longer. I have been through a lot of counselling and no long the timid woman who tip toed around him. If I don't like something I'll say so. I want to be able to Co parent in a productive way where we are not at each others throats because that's no good for my son either.

Tbh I think you over reacted to the comments he made. Without a lot of context they don’t seem bad. That it triggers something in you doesn’t mean it would for your son.

I wouldn’t have made a thing about the strange comment in front of your son. It emphasises something that may never have been there for your son even if it was for you as a child.

Perhaps it’s better to talk separately to your ex about using positive language with your son. Explain that this is to help develop a good relationship between them. E.g. Instead of strange say a decision is imaginative.

Jumping in when he is parenting, unless he is causing immediate harm, is undermining and confusing for your child.

The courts most often give contact anyway. They only take it away in the most extreme proven cases sadly.

Ok. No the OP did not over react. It's a whopping great big red flag based on previous behaviours.

Abusive people Do. Not. Change.

You cannot expect reasonableness from someone who forces you into a Refuge.

Courts can order supervised contact.

OP. Protect your son, before it's too late. You did the hardest thing, now shore up your position.

Just reiterating, 'positive language'?

So, pray tell. If this even stands a snowball in hells chance if working then surely the OP could have 'negotiated' with her abuser to stop abusing?

Isnt that logical?

If someone is abusive to one person, they will be abusive to others. If someone had been abusive to me i wouldn't want my dc to be alone with them. The question mark on here sometimes is - is this abusive? I think the 0-100 people here will sometimes make assumptions on reltionships without sufficient info, but if there was abuse, then it cannot be overstated - if the partner was abusive to OP, he will not only very, very likely be abusive to the dc in the same way/on some level or worse, he will also bring up your dc to be abusive. Because they are abusive. It is not a relationship problem, it is an abuse problem.

The alternative to coparenting is a supervised relationship.

I think the best thing to do is to discuss with someone with expertise here in real life, such as WA or Relate - talk through the historic abuse, the concern about future abuse, the likelihood of child also becoming abusive, and the likelihood of the partner being abusive to a child in different or worse ways.

Parallel parenting. This should be standard practice for all DA relationships

Parallel parenting allows the abuser to parent unsupervised so I am not sure that is right.