Miserable, bitter parents who hate each other - how do you manage as an adult?

[oshawott]

Not even sure what I’m asking for here. Advice or support or just a place to hear if anyone else has dealt with this sort of thing and kept their sanity!

My parents separated six years ago after 30+ years of marriage. This was mostly my dad’s fault. They were always very dependent on each other and since they have split they have both been miserable. And they have been making their children miserable too and I am so so tired of it.

Me and my siblings were in our 20s/30s when parents split. We sided with DM I suppose because DF’s behaviour was just so so awful, to us as well as to her. (It is a long story but he had some sort of mental health crisis when he retired, huge personality change, decided we had all ruined his life.) So in the immediate aftermath we helped her go through her finances, work out housing and bills etc, got her set up with lawyers when the divorce started.

That felt appropriate in the immediate crisis but then it dragged on for YEARS. She kept us up to date with every minute of the divorce case (even when we outright said “Mum please, I don’t want to hear this”).

The situation now:

• my DF is living alone, not eating or looking after himself that well, but has since seen a doctor and got antidepressants or something and is at least functioning. He seems pretty regretful about torpedoing his life (and has only himself to blame for that). I am back in contact with him but pretty low-touch and he sees my DC a couple of times a year.

• My DM is living alone, is utterly miserable, has no social life, refuses despite YEARS of chivvying (from my siblings as I have now given up) to take up hobbies, call her friends, go back to her church, see a counsellor, see her GP etc. She lives in a big falling-apart house she can’t afford the cost or effort to fix but refuses to leave because she fought so hard to keep it in the divorce. Me and siblings take it in turns to visit for a weekend of odd jobs and maintenance work.

And they hate each other, particularly my DM. She will not hear his name spoken - she will literally get up and leave the room. She hates that we adult children have any contact with him at all and makes it clear that she feels we’re letting her down after how horrible he was to her.

And I have tried SO HARD to be a good dutiful daughter. I have worked like mad to keep an eye on my DF when he was absolutely spiralling and spent years carefully prodding him towards seeing a doctor. I have gone to lawyers with my DM, I have sorted out her budget for her, I have looked up classes and social activities for her, I have sat and listened as she talked at length about how my DF had ruined her life. I have a shared photostream for my DC that she sees where I have kept all mention and photos of my dad off, and a separate one for him with the same setup. I have never once asked them to be in the same room together. I have tried and tried and tried.

Result: my DM is utterly miserable, just seems to spend all her time moping, refuses to get help or get out of the house or anything. And most recently, she actually refused to let one of my children bring a toy into her house because she worked out that my DF had given the toy to DC. My DC is six years old.

So now I have had ENOUGH. I am not passing this fucked-up situation on to another generation.

I wish I knew how to keep my own DC away from all of it while still getting to see both their grandparents, though. And I wish my mum was not so miserable, I hate that her life seems to mostly revolve around feeling depressed or seething about my DF.

It’s all just so horrible. Is anyone else going or has been through similar? What did you do to cope?

I'd leave them to it hard as it is

You need to see them as adults who make their own choices. Step away.

The only thing I can suggest is counselling for you. You didn't cause this and you can't fix them. You can only adjust your reaction to the situation. Hopefully your siblings are supportive of one another. It must be so painful to see your parents in their later years like this.

My parents hate one another in retirement but won't divorce, preferring instead to fight it out until someone gets the upper hand. In the meantime they are emotionally abusive to be around because the vitriol is spread everywhere. The only upside is that they've emigrated to Australia and gone no contact because I had the termerity to stand up to them.

Suggest counselling for you and some firmer “boundaries” with your mother in particular. And spending time with siblings without either parent being there (if you get on with your siblings).

God yes.

Here's what my siblings and I do. It works. I think you will find my advice a bit harsh though.

We never ever mention the other parent. If, say, my mother were to mention my father (usually barbed) we literally ignore it and talk on or over her even if that makes the conversation weird.

We make no comment whatsoever on how they each choose to live their lives. We certainly do not infantilise them like a lot of adult children seem to do even with nice normal elderly parents. In this vein, we do not go round unilaterally deciding what is unacceptable about the parent's life then either pestering them to live as we wish they would live or, worse, messing with their environment.

Stop treating your mum like an idiot child and maybe she'll remember she has agency and will choose to do things differently. And if she doesn't? She's and adult. She's allowed to live her life a shit way you disapprove of. Same for your dad.

So, no more rotas to manage her house for her. If she directly asks for assistance, like, would you mow the lawn, if you want to then do it, if it is inconvenient say no and suggest she hires a gardener.

On a kinder note, us children from dysfunctional childhoods learned young to parent our adults, manage their moods etc for self-protection. You can stop now. Let them fend for themselves. Sink or swim. Change or stay the same. It is OK. You can help if they ask but don't lecture and don't do more than exactly what was asked and don't do it if you don't want to.

Treating your parents as adults will be liberating for you (and for them when they get over the shock).

They're both still hurting by the sounds of things.

It sounds stupid but do either of them want to reconcile? Or is their previous relationship not worth revisiting?

Your DC will be fine if they see less of their grandmother, especially if this is how she behaves. I had low contact with GPs for valid reasons: it’s fine!

Your mother can’t dictate who you or your DC see.

You need to stop taking responsibility for her "feelings". You aren't doing anything wrong and she is manipulating you by behaving like this. Yes, it sucks her marriage didnt work but lots of marriages dont work and we dont deal with it by punishing everyone around us.

Tha fact is- she has made a choice to be miserable and bitter. She could easily do the things you suggested- make friends, socialise, church, social groups etc but she chooses not to because she wants to marinate in her own "woe is me" sauce. There is NOTHING you can do- this is her choice and her anger. Unfortunately she is wasting her life in bitterness but until she chooses to take a different view she will continue like this. I would stop emotionally responding to her. See her but focus on facts and practicalities. Dont get into an emotional tug of war and stop taking responsibility for her unhappiness. Yes, lots of things happen to us in life that are shit but we do have control over how we respond to them. If she wants to fritter her life away on misery then let her. Nothing you say or do will convince her otherwise as it has to be a realisation that she comes to herself.

I’m very sorry to hear how unhappy everyone is. The problem is the more you do for them the more you enable them to carry on as they are.

Step back. Find your boundaries. If they do ridiculous things (like the toy! - basically she’s putting her own needs above a six-year-olds!!) then gently but firmly say you can’t engage while they’re being like that.

The Out of The Fog website might be helpful. Your parents sound fairly codependent.

@TorkTorkBam

gives some excellent advice upthread about how to handle her

Excellent post Tork

as pp have said. And if she refuses to allow a toy in then take your children and go home.

You said she leaves the room if/when you say/do something she doesn't like. You need to treat her the same way.

If she is rude to you or your children then you walk out.
Warn her that if she starts to whine about your dad or her life then you are not going to stay and listen any more. AND act on it.

Get up and walk out. If she protests, tell her she was warned, if you feel generous you could give her one chance at this point to change the subject but maximum of one. Otherwise leave, but visit again as normal and repeat. If it doesn't quickly improve then double the time between visits each time.

God, you have TONS of sympathy from me! My parents are still together but mostly cant stand each other, ditto DP's parents. It is exhausting and suffocating when your parents refuse to take responsibility for themselves and seem to rely on their adult children to give their lives meaning. It's also bloody unfair

Your mother seems unable / unwilling to move on and is still stuck in the drama of what happened with your dad. I think it's really worrying that she is dragging your little 6 year old into it by making a huge scene about a toy . Please dont feel that you have to expose your young children to this situation, when you are struggling with it as an adult . It sounds like you have done your absolute best to help both your parents, but it sounds like a losing battle.

I saw a therapist for a long time, largely because of my parents and their impact on my life. I would recommend it hugely. I was totally enmeshed with them and had real difficulty seeing myself as a separate person from them. Separating from them emotionally was an intensely painful process but my head is in an infinitely better place for it.

Please remember what my therapist told me - you are a separate person from your parents, you dont have to be their good little girl anymore, and you dont have to do what they expect of you. You are an adult, not their little girl.

Thank you, it's so good to hear sane clear advice. I think it was the toy incident that finally opened my eyes to just how awful and weird this whole situation is. Sad maybe but I'm a lot more confident standing up for my children than I am about standing up for myself.

@TorkTorkBam - not too harsh no. I definitely do feel like I've fallen into parenting both of them in various ways. It is hard, it would feel mean to be the one refusing to 'help Mum out' when the other siblings are doing it, but... it has been years now. Things that I was happy to do when it was immediate crisis of "oh God Dad's lost it and drained the joint account and now Mum has no money let's pay to get the roof fixed for her", now it's years later and she's fully in charge of her own finances feel less appropriate. Of course I don't want her in a house she can't manage, but... she is choosing to stay there.

It does feel to a large extent as if all of us (parents, my siblings, me) got stuck in this immediate-crisis mindset, and now that immediate crisis is long over it is proving hard to adjust to the idea that this is normal life. And things that I'm happy to do in a crisis are not things I want to do on a monthly rota. Or to bring my children up thinking are normal.

I don't even know how I'd have time for counselling at the moment but I think I do need to find some. Not least because my children are getting old enough to notice all this now.

@Lottapianos I am really glad that your therapist was such help for you through this kind of hell. I had always felt before this situation kicked off that my parents were pretty decent, well-balanced role models as parents, but I am starting to reconsider a lot of that looking back.

Definitely go for counselling.
Have you ever sat her down and literally said it like it is. With your siblings. Intervention style.
Same with your dad?
I would probably take advice on it, but it might be a kick up the butt she needs? But as with any ultimatum of sorts there has to be an end purpose and if that doesn’t work, you have to be prepared to either walk away or step back drastically.

I would start with a family meeting with your siblings perhaps?

'Sad maybe but I'm a lot more confident standing up for my children than I am about standing up for myself.'

Yes it is sad, although you're far from alone in that. It's likely part of their legacy of making sure you always consider others (I.e. them) before yourself. Sounds like you're discovering your self esteem though and realising that it doesn't have to be like this anymore, and well done for that

It may also help to remember that your parents are adults and they have choices. If they are living in miserable situations, crazy as it seems, it must be because they're getting something they need out of it. Some people honestly dont want to be happy, or maybe dont know how. Very sad, but ultimately up to them

It’s never easy :( my DH parents divorced over 40 years ago & my MIL has never moved on from it and will be so awkward and spiteful if she knows we are going to see my FIL. My older daughter now wants very little to do with her as she sees her as a bitter old lady. This is my MIL own fault and we tried to have a balance and ask her not to say certain things in-front of the children but is just getting more nasty as time goes on, we have had to reduce contact as it’s not healthy for any of us.
It’s sad really my husband has had counselling as growing up with a parents who are separated -40 years ago parent alienation existed - it’s awful to see how this has had a long term affects on the relationship with his father but also wider relationships and insecurities.

If I had one wish is divorcing parents actually thought about what they are doing to their children and the huge long term effects their at times selfish actions can do.
We as a family will invite both to family celebrations up to them to behave themselves as they are adults. She has tried the you can’t bring that in if ‘he’ brought it but I said then we all leave if you will be petty so we haven’t had that again. For children’s concert etc we take turns - we find it easy to not even tell her about the events FIL attends.
It was really hard last year as my DD turned 16 and wanted a family birthday meal but didn’t want MIL invited as she felt to uncomfortable and didn’t want the drama.
MIL is now loosing her GD by not seeing what bitterness can do to a person.

My mother got very bitter & frankly twisted after separating from my dad. She tried to drag everyone into it & bad mouthed my dad constantly.

tbh, it makes me angry just reading OP's story.

tbh, I resorted to lying to my mother & concealing any truth about contact with my dad. It was the easiest course.

Excellent post @TorkTorkBam

I bet your siblings are feeling the same. Maybe it just needs one of you to point out that the best thing you can do for your mum now is to stop babying her. Treat her like an independent adult.

I have no additional advice to add..there’s some great stuff here.

My mother still fights daily with my father & is very bitter about their life together. He’s been dead 15 years. What a waste of a life.

It is hard, it would feel mean to be the one refusing to 'help Mum out' when the other siblings are doing it
This is a common trap. Me, I'd go on the group chat and say I've decided to step back from doing so much for mum because I think it is stopping her from taking responsibility for her own life. Totally understand if you guys aren't ready to step back yourselves yet. I'm treating her just like I would treat one of you from now on - I won't be popping round to do your washing up!

No advice but just came on to say you have done the right thing by drawing a line in the sand op Totally different situation but despite years of dh and me trying to handle his DPS behaviour, trying to please and help them, clearing up after them, (financially and literally) which was a totally thankless task tbh, the minute his DM tried to involve my DD (who was six/seven at the time) in her "agenda" we stepped back and had to put quite strict boundaries in place. You are right not to let the fall-out of your parents separation affect your DC. So sorry you are going through this

I know how this feels op. I have found that parents of children do their best to shield and protect their kids from a breakup(not all I know, but a lot try to at least ) whereas as an adult that's totally thrown out the window and parents are very open with their hate for each other, and are fine to tell you everything and want you to also think bad of the other parent. They want you on their side. They do not seem to see that we are still their children, still also trying to adjust to everything we have known, our parents together and our whole childhoods, seperating. It's also a big deal for adult children. But the hatred and anger is so much more open and acceptable when the children are adults, and also by others in a way. I felt pulled both ways, the jealousy at seeing the other parent was awful, the comments at being around one of their new partners, the anger when you won't give them information or tell them everything, the constant slagging off of the other, point scoring, other siblings telling tales to each one to get their own way and causing more arguments, the constant questions even when you say you are not getting involved. its exhausting. As you are an adult they do not see that it is wrong to do this, I felt I had no time at all to grieve or process the end of my parents because I was thrown into it all. I'm sorry I have no advice but I wanted to put this to say I understand, I know circumstances are different but it's tough as an adult too! In a different way to a child obviously. And so maybe others on here will have experienced this too