Will I wish I'd had more of a relationship with my dad when he dies?

[franch]

Just idly wondering really - caught a bit of a radio programme where some men (and it may be significant that they were men) whose dads were strong authority figures were saying that their dads' deaths had more impact on them than their lovely mums'. It got me thinking - I'm sure that wouldn't be the case for me (I adore and depend on my wonderful mum), but I wondered how I will feel when my dad dies, and primarily whether I'll have regrets about how cold our relationship has become.

I see him regularly, tho only in the company of my mum, and we rarely converse one-to-one. If we do it sometimes works out ok, but often results in upsetting revisiting of old disagreements and frictions. He doesn't show much affection towards me and shows no interest in my life, although he can (in the right mood) be great with the DDs. Our relationship in the past had its moments but also some dreadful confrontations. I don't think I have anything to 'have out' with him that we haven't discussed before. Just wondered if any MNers with similar experiences - especially those who have actually lost their dads - might have any wisdom to offer.

From my experience I feel if I make more of an effort with dad I'll only get rebuffed but right now I actively avoid being left in the same room with him and will frequently walk past him in the house as if he's not there - I consider myself a warm person and my current self-protective strategy of pretty much ignoring him without being overtly rude works to a degree but doesn't feel great. Yet if either my brother or I reach out to him we do tend to get hurt sooner or later.

I'm probably best leaving well alone, but don't want to be consumed by regrets when I do lose him. He's not a bad man, just a difficult one.

Thoughts?

In my experience, being consumed with regrets is part of anyone dying. Doesn't matter how good your relationship was, how often you saw them/made contact with them.

You always could have done more, and I think this is part of the grieving process iyswim.

I had a great, if long distance relationship with my dad. He died suddenly (over 10 yrs ago now) and had asked me to visit him the week before. I didn't as I was busy studying for exams. Will regret this decision for all time.

If I were you though, I would at least tell him the things that you DO value him for.

Very wise Katsma. And very true what you say about regrets being inescapable.

You are, I'm sure, right about telling him what I value him for. There are some things. And right now he probably thinks I hate him. I don't, and I suppose I shouldn't wait to feel that he loves me in order to set that straight. When it comes down to it though I am, sadly, not sure I'm a big enough person for that

Try it. Just tell him one thing. It doesn't have to be a big deal. Eg. "Thanks for watching the kids, you're really good with them".

I bet it'd improve your relationship with him, make him better with the kids AND make you feel like you've done something positive.

Go on, try it.

I dare you

franch, your dad just sounds like mine was. Its hard when you just arn't emotionally close to your parents. My dad died just over a year ago. We wern't emotionally close and never really were. I remember him for 'occasionally' being the dad I wished he was all the time. Its hard to 'talk' about him because of the respect I have for both of my parents, but looking back I wished he was more 'human' towards me. He was a really gentle and non-confruntational man, but it was always hard to see beyond the brick wall he had in front of him. Why can't parents sometimes feel like they can show emotion in front of their children. He had a long illness lasting over about 10 years, although he had it bad for about 1. When he was alive I was not particularly close to either parent. Our family never had big rows to clear the air which probably would have been better than keeping silences.

My feelings would lean towards not making any special effort at all. I think that its the parent that should make themselves approachable for their children. Our dad was always 'distant' and as a result although I was, of course, upset when he died, I have never actually cryed and I don't feel a great loss in my life. I feel really guilty for saying it but am only saying it out of respect because he was my dad. When I visit his grave, I can't even stand there and feel any great emotion that I feel I should.

I have vowed as a parent to make myself approachable to my children as much as I possibly can. I am going to know whats going on in their lives and try to be there for them 110% when they need me.

There is no greater feeling of lonliness than when you can't talk to your own parents about anything because you are worried about dissapproval etc.

Franch, such an interesting question. my dad died 18m ago. After the age of 8 or 9 I stopped feeling close and adoring towards him because I felt an emotional barrier going up. He was great with my children - though we were hundreds of miles and a sea apart - but always seemed to find it difficult to have a real emotional adult relationship with me (or indeed other adults). While I find this sad, I don't think I could have done much about it. Sometimes I have dreams where I talk to him, sort of idealised situations where he features as an emotionally open but not over the top normal man, and we talk about things in a relaxed way. I'm sure I'm grieving for what never was, rather than what I could have brought about. But I do find this comforting rather than sad or depressing; I do feel a resonance with what you say regarding rarely conversing one to one and so on, and perhaps your dad and mine are cast from the same mould.

I'd say keep the lines of communication open, even if just on a factual, mundane level, eg, what the children are up to etc. Perhaps accept you're never going ever to talk about the meaning of life. Keep it easy and relaxed.

I do find it hard to reconcile the rather distant man who was my father from the age of 8-9 until the day he died, with the involved daddy of early childhood, but that's the way he was. I could get angry about this, but I choose to remember the early days, and to rely on my dreams of what might have been had he been more emotionally articulate.

Don't know whether this helps, but it's my best attempt at articulating what I think you must be feeling.

I agree that everyone whose parent dies feels guilt and regret. Even my friend who phoned every single day and visited her mother twice weekly. My dad was killed just before Christmas, and it was awful, even though he was a very, very difficult man (undiagnosed Aspergers didn't help). I found him exhausting company.
I wish he'd seen a bit more of the children as, even though he wasn't fantastic with them, it meant a lot to him. I also wished I'd listened more to the more interesting, personal bits of his endless reminiscences - eg family stories, his own childhood etc. I think both of us would have foudn that more interesting and less a source of conflict/boredom. I wish I'd let him be proud of me - I always found that embarrassing. BUT...we were estranged for a long time, and I find it a great comfort that he met his grandchildren and that we had an OK relationship when he died. It was a horrible, horrible shock.

franch, I would suggest you spend every moment with your dad as if it were your last, but not as the most important in your life.

Hi Franch

I lost my dad at 15 and did regret not having known him better but only because I had not followed my own judgement but had distanced myself from him to please my mother (who separated and divorced him when I was 5). So I think the regrets were for different reasons than yours.

I fell out with my mother last year for very well founded reasons and my MIL's recent illness has not prompted me to "forgive and forget" where my mother is concerned. On the contrary I feel life is too short to pretend to feel anything other than how I feel. It does depend on how fundamental the rift is, I suppose, but I think I know more people who have regretted NOT being honest and confronting their parents with the things they have done/abuse etc before they died than people who wished they had been kinder and more forgiving.

I personally don't think you should change your behaviour towards your father just because he may die. If he hasn't been a proper father to you and hasn't earned your love and respect I don't think that will suddenly change when he is gone.

I thought I would feel free when my Nana died but I miss her. She also did something which has stopped me from being free too. If she hadn't have done it, I would feel free but still miss her IYSWIM.

NAB3, can you explain?

I have problems with my mother and didn't want her to know I had had children. I felt that if my Nana died, my mother would never find out I had had children and then they would be safe. My Nana was my Dad's mum and still spoke to my mother. My Nana told her I had 2 and was pregnant again just 2 weeks before she died. What could I say to a dying woman? My MIL then told my mother I had had the baby and his name. But kept this from me for months. I will never forgive her for it. My mother is now threatening to seek access and it is causing us untold stress and worry.

My DH did regret not knowing his father better when he died. But that wasn't because they were estranged but because FIL left them when DH was 6 - and the relationship was on/off for years. As an adult he was just beginning to build a proper relationship with him when he died.

But FIL wasn't 'difficult' as such though.

I am 24 and won't go into the details of mine and my father's relationship, just say it was very very hard, he was never there in my life from about the age of 12/13, made nasty comments about me and gradually became more distant. As I got older he wanted less and less to do with me, as I was getting more independent and learning more about the man he is/was. I've had some counselling due to mental illness and this helped me see that I can only be adult about things: explain I am always there if he decides he wants a relationship, but that I won't pine every day and won't bother him. Then I took a step back. He's been the biting child and I've been the adult, always accepting the way he behaves, the things he says in texts/emails, and just saying 'ok, he's my dad, he may want me one day, but for now I will just carry on my life'. I'm not going to wait around for him every day, but if he approached me tomorrow I would be the adult and not turn him away. I am not saying it would all be rosey, we would have lots to discuss.

Therefore, if he dies and we have still not healed our relationship, I will not regret anything, because I have always left myself open to him and never blocked him coming into my life. It has been his choice. If you leave yourself open to your father and allow him into your life if he wants to (with boundaries and firm rules about hurting you), then you cannot regret your relationship when he dies, because it was not your doing.

i think alot of the guilt and regret when someone difficult has died is more about longing for the kind of person you WISH they HAD been, rather than you actually doing anything wrong. And of course then you can idealise them, and forget what a pain in the arse they may have actually been. My Dad regrets his relationship with his father, but from what i can gather from everyone else, my paternal grandfather was a mean, violent, control freak...what my Dad is regretting is that he didn't have a better father, not that he wasn't a good enough son.

I regret that now, pregnantgrl, and I don't think that will heighten when he dies. I may in fact feel relief in that sense, as he no longer has the choice about whether he loves me/wants to speak to me.

Incidentally, I wondered if problems you had with your family tend to ease in significance when you have your own family and are no longer so reliant on the love and attention of your parents and siblings.

My Dad died 18 months ago and I miss him terribly. We had a good relationship and despite 400 miles between us we always caught up with chat as quickly as the previous time. I will always regret not spending more time with him, asking him questions about his work, childhood, family stuff.

I know this isnt the same situation as yours but I would 2nd what Katsma said. Talk about the good times you had together and how you cherish those memories.

There's so much wisdom here. Haven't replied yet as this has given me so much to think about but just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their thoughts - I think you're all right and am absorbing it all slowly