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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Advice needed - DH, debt and lies

56 replies

ItsARaveDave · 19/01/2020 11:38

I have name changed as don't want this connected to previous posts. Sorry this is long.

DH and I have been together for 10 years. We have 1 DC who is 3 and another on the way.

DH has a history of lying and hiding things (never anything like cheating etc) surrounding money/debt. He's built up a lot of debt and kept it from me until I have gone looking at his statements or phone and discovered it. Over the past couple of years I have discovered a loan for about £8k and credit card with £6k on that had not been paid for some time. This was on top of other debt that we have jointly. The last time something came out was about 9 months ago (the CC), he promised that was absolutely everything, that he'd sort things out and make sure everything was paid, and that we would both put all our money into our joint account and everything would be paid from there so I knew everything was paid and how much money we had left over. At this same time I started opening his bank statements and hiding them from him, he never even noticed. Now, I know this is wrong (and please don't say it's illegal to open someone else's post, because I had no intention to commit theft or fraud so is an invalid point) but I wanted to keep an eye on things, as he hadn't changed some direct debits over despite saying he would, and didn't hand over his cards, again despite saying he would. Everything was ticking along ok, until December when he didn't pay his credit card bill again, despite going through a big pallava with the credit card company to agree new repayment terms etc. He was also left with £135 balance which was 1 not enough for the credit card payment and 2 not enough for another £320 payment due to come out this month. I didn't say anything as I wanted to see if he would say anything or how be would pay it. He also started using another credit card as the minimum payment started coming out his account again. Don't know why as between us we should have a fair bit of disposable income, he just seems to spend it on crap, coffee, lunch etc (definitely no drinking/gambling/prostitutes before that gets suggested). So Januarys statement came about 2 weeks ago, and again showed the bill was not paid. I didn't say anything straight away but was kept up all night worrying and going over in my head what I would say, how he was going to react etc (normally very defensive/angry). The next morning he received a letter from the credit card company saying he owed them £400+ for missed payments, he seemed bewildered and said he'd had the money in his account and they must have cancelled his direct debit. He seemed sure he'd paid December and checked his online banking to discover he hadn't. I am convinced he only told me what the letter said as I was sat right next to him and saw who it was from, otherwise he'd have ripped it up saying it was nothing and binned it as he has done before. I then admitted what I had done and he hit the roof. He then refused to speak to me for nearly a week. When he did finally talk to me, he said he was sorry for not talking to me about things but he was still sure he'd paid the bill and had enough in his account (not true). He also managed to change all his direct debits into the joint account in 1 day, after months and months of me asking him to. He then said we obviously can't trust each other but did acknowledged that my actions are a result of his actions, and how much anxiety I get over debt and money worries. He said things will take time to get back to normal and learn to trust each other again. Since then he has still barely spoken to me, is still sleeping on the sofa, is being snappy with DC and just generally quite uncaring towards me. His mate rang him to go and play football this morning, he said no my ankle hurts about 10 times, really being resistant to going, then as soon as he put the phone down and I ask him to do me a hot water bottle (back pain), he said actually I'm going to go to football, gone to get changed and fucked off out leaving me feeling like utter shit looking after DC. We've text back and forth a bit and he's saying he doesn't feel like being intimate/normal with me and things will take time. I said time also takes effort and if you're not actively doing anything to sort things out they're not going to get better. He's basically said my choices are put up with this (being ignored etc) or make a decision i.e leave. Now I feel like he is pushing me to end things which I don't want to do and said as much. He said I have a choice. I said I don't, I either put up and shut up or leave and I don't want to do either. I told him to just end things if that's what he wants cos if he's not going to put effort into making things better then it's dead in the water. He thinks hoping they will improve is enough. I don't know where we go from here. I'm really angry at him now and know he is still angry at me. But we've got through this all before, and he's always been so apologetic after and trying to make things up to me, knowing he is in the wrong. But this time I feel like he hates me now. Any advice? And please don't just tell me to LTB as that's just not helpful.

OP posts:
Purplewithred · 19/01/2020 12:47

As well as you getting control of his accounts can you restrict his access to money? Will he let you take all the money in to accounts in just your name then pay a monthly spending allowance directly to him in some way? I think you can also secure things so he cant take joint loans that implicate you - maybe a quick chat with a solicitor/citizens advice?

Teensandfuture · 19/01/2020 14:46

Looks like the only solution is to take full control of finances here.

If he agrees, hopefully you can sort this mess out with time.

If he doesn't agree to give you full access, then don't see how it can work.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/01/2020 14:59

You cannot be a rescuer or saviour in a relationship; neither approach works. Your love for him will be your downfall.

Its never easy to leave but its a damn sight harder to stay in a debt situation.

He needs to contact Stepchange about the debts that have accrued and seek their advice. He doing that will also show you that he is taking responsibility for this debt mountain.

How much is owed in total to these providers?. My guess its actually a lot more than you think it is.

He is like this because he can; you are also enabling him here. You are indeed putting your life on hold to clear these debts. Enabling only gives you a false sense of control.

Do not assume ADHD in him either; what makes you think this?. You may well be wrong in this respect. Its yet more excuses from you and he will continue to drag you down with him in the meantime.

Oliversmumsarmy · 19/01/2020 15:59

If you do take control of all his finances the relationship changes from equal adults to more of a mother child pocket money situation

He will then at some point start to resent you and see you as controlling.

Teensandfuture · 19/01/2020 16:30

Ye what's the alternative for the op? Being a single parent? , it will definitely mean she'll lose financially and in other terms.
Only solution you offering is to leave. And mostly advising this are those that actually are married and wouldn't leave if it came to them.

Ihavehadenoughalready · 19/01/2020 16:30

I took over all finances due to STBX gambling. I did feel constant anxiety, though, as he would sneak money out of our joint account, then, getting cash while shopping for groceries, etc. Then it was, "can't I use the credit card for gas and other expenses" and I would be ground down to let him, then he snuck and did cash advances on the credit card, then I took that card back, then he had his "own" credit card which he then did cash advances on, and on and on it went.

I felt totally like I was controlling everything, and he was resenting it all, and having sought treatment for his gambling, I would have stayed up to the point where he gambled yet again, and he also refused to remain on medications that were helping him, and I continued to have high anxiety that he would never change, that I would always end up responsible for our finances, that I would always be the one babysitting him through old age, and finally I saw that my retirement funds would also be at risk once we retired, so I ended it. I could not be his mother, his controlling wife, his savior, and I would no longer enable him.

So, despite the fact I will end up paying him child support as the higher earner, I will be better off financially without him.

I thought I had to stay with him to honor my vows, but I finally saw that how I had to be to remain with him was destroying our relationship, and that he was the one who dishonored his vows to me.

Just because your H's problem isn't apparently gambling doesn't mean that your debt situation isn't any less a continuing problem. If he has fully relented control to you, great. But, as a PP has said, he may well come to resent you for "controlling" him, and if that becomes the case, you will probably have to leave because your relationship will have been destroyed.

Oliversmumsarmy · 19/01/2020 16:33

But if she left she wouldn’t one day have to face trying to get them out an even bigger hole later on.

As they both agree the trust is gone and it doesn’t sound like this is the first time this sort of things has happened

What makes this time the last time

Teensandfuture · 19/01/2020 16:35

Ihave
You're right to the extent.

I'd advise OP to take control of finances in short term but to make plans and prepare to leave in longterm.

She's expecting, it really isn't a great time to separate and be left with no support.

SusieOwl4 · 19/01/2020 16:40

presumably he will have some spending money so why not let him have an account with no overdraft so he knows exactly what he has to spend and you control the rest ?

PixiKitKat · 19/01/2020 16:46

Are you willing to risk losing yours and your children's home because of him? Because that where it will end if he doesn't sort himself out.

TheReef · 19/01/2020 16:46

The problem here is that any debt he's run up, you are liable for half of it. I would suggest that you split the finances 50/50, you both pay in a set amount for bills food etc and whatever is left you split 50/50 and he pays all his debts off out of his half. But, this will affect you, if you have a shared mortgage you're financially linked which means all his debt affects you. And as I said above, if you split 50% of all this debt will be yours!

I still don't get why he's being the victim in all this. He's lied and run up debt and he's ignoring you!!! OP you need to get strong and put your big girl pants on, and start sticking up for yourself

OoohTheStatsDontLie · 19/01/2020 16:58

I think it's bad enough the debt but the way he is treating you for trying to sort it out is disgusting. It's not his debt is it, its half yours and if he wasnt wasting all this money on himself you would be able to take longer maternity leave, more family holidays etc.

I would say that you have complete control of finances. For ever. He has a set amount of cash or a debit card for an account with no overdraft. He also cuts his spending where he can eg no more takeaway coffees, taking lunch from home. All purchases over £x have to be agreed by both of you even from his own spending money to stop him blowing it on something stupid. He is proven now he cannot be trusted or isn't capable of being sensible with money.

You will get out of debt and then he will wsnt access back to the joint account and a credit card. He will say he has learnt his lesson and now you're debt free there is no reason to be so stingy. I think you should say at this point you still want to have control of everything as I'm pretty sure he will just go back into debt again as soon as you give an inch.

Softscoop35 · 19/01/2020 17:02

Im not going to tell you to LTB but you are making excuses for him

This time last year, i was about to start IVF for a sibling and i found out DH was in alot more debt than he was letting on. Although no payments were missed, i was furious and felt he deceived me, leaving him wasnt an option, A) i did love him B) I knew we could get through it.

I took charge of everything, worked out incomings/outgoings. Got a consolidation loan and paid off all his debt so we knee where we stood every month. Took his card apart from 1. Changed all the Ebay, amazon and paypal passwords. I meant business..
Oh, and i had no choice but to cancel the IVF.
Now, a year on, we have changed. We managed to pay of more debt and save 10K.
We budget and save alot. Never ever ever will we get another loan, credit card or catalogue again.

If you want to stay together, you need to take charge.

champagneandfromage50 · 19/01/2020 17:06

I got myself into debt and hid it from my DH, I tried to manage it myself and it spiralled as I ended up just paying off interest. He was furious when he found out however I was relieved when it came out, we came up with a plan and he took over the finances. I was completely transparent as he was really anxious about being able to trust me. I transfer my wages over to him and I am left with pocket money. I haven't gone on to get any credit cards or lied and have been totally transparent. Sadly your DH hasn't done the same which would suggest to me there is an underlying issue..... he either accepts he has an issue and you work together to sort it out or sadly this will continue

PickAChew · 19/01/2020 17:13

My ex ran up endless debts. I did leave him. He quickly remarried and did exactly the same again. She left him, too.

It's hard to have any love or respect for a man who is not only unwilling to handle his family's money responsibly, but he lies to you and gives you grief when you try to fix his mess.

madcatladyforever · 19/01/2020 17:24

I'm sorry OP but he will never ever change. I was with my ex husband for 20 years and paid debt after debt after debt. He never learnt.
They nevery do.
He will not wake up one morning and be a responsible adult.
It's such a relief my ex has gone as I can finally have some peace of mind. Since he left he's racked up £30k worth of debt and I'm so relieved I don't have to deal with this any more.
I hope you are not in my position in 20 years time.
His behaviour will eventually destroy your marriage.

Oliversmumsarmy · 20/01/2020 09:33

Taking charge is fine in the short term for him.

He will be feeling better having run up all the debts he had unloaded the problem onto op.

Op will tie herself in knots trying to make the figures work.

Will be going without stuff to pay the debt off quicker

And then her dh will get bored. Nothing to stop him going for more loans or more credit cards that he will get into trouble with and offload the problem onto op.

It is a cycle that is never ending.

Taking over these debts is not teaching him anything.

Teensandfuture · 20/01/2020 17:09

oliver

Teaching him a lesson or teaching him to manage finances isn't primary objective at this point. Looks like she tried to direct him already and it didn't work.

He's dragging OP down with his irresponsible behaviour, she needs to take charge for her own sake as he can ruin her credit and ultimately can make her homeless.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/01/2020 20:24

What was the money actually spent on? Clearly that much didn't go on "coffee", so what did happen to it?

shitwithsugaron · 20/01/2020 20:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oliversmumsarmy · 20/01/2020 20:40

Teensandfuture but when is he going to take responsibility.

I get the impression this isn’t the first time and whilst op is running around getting things sorted he has just off loaded any mental load of these debts onto her.

His mind is free and clear.

If she cut him loose and they separated the debts would be for him to sort out

The problem is her dh isn’t ever going to learn and the debts will get bigger and bigger as the years go by

Whilst the op is controlling the loan and the credit card that she knows about but there is nothing stopping him going out and getting another credit card and another loan

Teensandfuture · 20/01/2020 21:39

oliver
Oh ye separate and become a single parent while expecting, great solution to financial problems!
She'll definitely will be better off with nodoubtly less money and less supportHmm

newyearnew · 20/01/2020 21:49

My DH did something similar, ran up loads of debt. Can't go into too much detail, but I found out that he'd also spent all of our savings (50k+) and didn't have enough money for the bills.
I was hurt, bloody furious, and very upset.
This was a few years ago now. I can't trust him and things are still tight. I have lost all respect for him now. We are still together, but I have a secret emergency escape fund!

Oliversmumsarmy · 21/01/2020 08:18

Oh ye separate and become a single parent while expecting, great solution to financial problems!
She'll definitely will be better off with nodoubtly less money and less support

What support does she have atm?
Less money?
He has, not for the first time, run up thousands in debt.

Yes she would be better off on her own as at least she would know exactly where she was financially and would have piece of mind knowing she was in control of her destiny.

This won’t stop.

He has run up thousands more debt this time and when this is paid off it will be followed by a bigger debt next time and a bigger debt.

She no longer trusts him. That is not a basis for a long term relationship.

How many times or how much debt would your line in the sand be?

Or do you think because you think op can’t do better she should cling on to this relationship and spend her and her dc life going without so she can pay off his ever increasing debts.

ItsARaveDave · 21/01/2020 08:54

Puzzledandpissedoff if you mean what has he spent money on to build up the debt, with the loan he booked us a holiday (yes yes, I know Hmm), paid off the old credit card that he's started using again, paid for DSs nursery fees(told he he'd got a bonus so paid a couple of months up front, and was using the rest to pay his half of our normal bills. Early last year he took a pay cut in salary (but with better commission opportunities) and some months when his commission wasn't as much as he was expecting, he'd struggle with his half of the bills.

He's always had the other credit card with £5-6k on it but I never knew how much was in it so that's just years and years of paying for petrol or a food shop here and there, but the interest is so high and the minimum payments wouldn't even pay off any of the actual debt so its just built up and built up over time.

Thank you to everyone replying, you're making me realise that he is never going to change and I will always feel like his mother controlling the purse strings. Not sure what I'm going to do in the long term, but short term will continue with the plan of me dealing with the finances and paying off as much debt as we can in the next 5 months before I go on maternity leave and then reassess when things are looking better.

Thankfully my maternity package is quite good so I get full pay for half of it, and then when I'm just on SMP, with his salary and commission we can still pay our bills and have a bit left over at the end of the month. We thankfully don't have to buy much for the new baby as we have kept everything from when DS was a baby.

OP posts: