Financial infidelity

[Jollofyum]

I am posting under a new name as I don't want current posts to be linked to past ones by friends who I know use Mumsnet. There are a couple of people who are highly likely to recognise details in this thread. I love those people but for my own sanity want to keep it separate from past threads.

Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else has experienced fairly serious financial infidelity/what others might do in my situation.

My marriage has broken down over money. There are other issues but money and lies are the deciding factors in the break-up. My husband has been spending money we didn't have, building up debts and lying to cover that up. The lies have included excuses about why he couldn't contribute more to the family pot, even when I went through a phase of not earning (had a baby!) and had very, very little disposable money or money for taking baby out. It turns out that initially those excuses were simply resentment at the idea of not having as much disposable income for himself as he thought he deserved. Then it became lies to cover up the spending and debt. (Yes, we had talked about managing finances before I got pregnant and he'd always said he believed in 'family money', etc, etc and seemed to genuinely believe it. Lies).

Anyway, I found out about the debt and the lies. After many rows, a diagnosis of mental illness (his), marriage counselling, etc I thought we might be able to repair things. Then he admitted to the counsellor that he didn't think he'd done anything that wrong. I had been saying it felt like the type of betrayal and deceit that comes with an affair. He didn't agree and felt I was blowing it all out of proportion. (So again he'd been lying to me as up until then he'd been supposedly really sorry and ashamed.). The counsellor tried to get him to see my perspective. But It wasn't then a great surprise when I discovered he'd been lying about money and racking up debts again. This time some of the lies were truly awful and unnecessary.

I have done some sleuthing and there is no gambling, there is no other woman. Just sheer stupidity and selfishness with money and then lying about it. Thousands of pounds worth of debt on nothing. Money that could have gone on the family/our home/etc.

The other day I stumbled across the phrase 'financial infidelity'. That sums up exactly how I feel about it all. We are now over and I am sure that's the right choice?

But my fear is how much to trust him now. Actually, I don't trust him at all and I am not sure how to handle that now. We have agreed a sum for child maintenance, who will live where, etc in the short term. But I don't feel I can trust him to stick to this. After all, he didn't stick to his word when we were married so why would he start when we separate (especially as he still doesn't seem remorseful, just full of self-pity - May be linked to the mental health issues)? He's already showing some signs of flakiness. I plan to speak to a solicitor straight after Christmas, before he moves out. But I know that doing that may make him become stubborn and inflexible and so the 'amicable split' may become a bitter one.

Am I doing the right thing in seeing a solicitor now? Any tips from anyone who has been through similar? Any hope the marriage might be salvageable at some point? Or would I be an idiot to take him back, if he came crawling back, having cleared the debts and genuinely full of remorse?

It's so hard to see things clearly within my own relationship!

OP, sounds like you are young.

Best advice is to go to the solicitor and move on.

The alternative is you live a life of wondering, checking and never truly having peace of mind.

Horrible way to life.

Move on.💐

Thanks for the kind words 🙂 It's good to get confirmation that moving on is the right thing.

I'm middle-aged not young. But I'm not sure I see my age as relevant? Either his behaviour is okay or it's not. We've been together close to two decades and that is more relevant, to me, as he's not been a lying dick all that time.

Moving on won't be simple with children, a mortgage, etc. If only it would be. I don't earn enough to cover core living costs alone, even if I were to move out and rent, so will need the child maintenance (and benefits). If he decides to mess me about with money now, I'll be shafted until a solicitor can sort it out.

OP - i am presuming you have agreed a sun for child maintenance via consent order. After a year that order can be challenged and he can simply move to pay what CMS dictates given his income level.
If he is on higher income - (I think it’s something like over £3K/week, but check it) - your solicitor can file for higher child maintenance via court order. And protect if against him going CMS route after a year.
But if he is below CMS max income - there is nothing you can do - and should assume he will revert to min required. Many men do that after divorce.

As to the other points in your post. For me I’d not call it financial infidelity. But regardless of the term - it’s a total breach of trust that can’t be repaired. He simply isn’t capable of being honest and fair in a relationship where finances are concerned. This won’t change.

Gosh even more shocking OP if he has been abusing you financially for two decades.
Whatever your age.... get out.
People like this rarely change.

Nothing separation wise is sorted or agreed other than verbally. He's moving out after Christmas. He's clear he will be the one to move out and the children and I stay in the house. We've verbally agreed initial finances. But nothing more. That's why I need to see a solicitor.

It's not been like this for two decades. I'd have been gone like a shot pre-children at any hint. (Maybe I missed earning signs?) It's a recent thing. But interesting that one of you uses the term financial abuse. I've considered that for the period I struggled to have any disposable income and kick myself for not seeing it at the time (there were reasons - which seem daft now). But I guess there's part of me that doesn't want to see the situation that way - because that's not who I thought I'd been with for so long. I know none of that is unusual...

The term financial infidelity seemed to describe the issues of lies, deception, betrayal and the damage they cause. But whatever I call it, it's not okay.

I'm annoyed to find myself in this position. I'm re-training, which is partly why my income is so much lower than his right now. That and all the support I've given him with his career - and I don't 'only' mean by being the primary career for our kids, etc. His current job is something I helped him gain the confidence to go for , I re-wrote his CV for for him with each job move over the years, and his current salary is what I told him he was worth and to ask for - he was going to ask for less. My re-training is/was supposed to be my "turn". We were supposed to be a team...

I found our my dh had lied about finances, his spending and debt.
On a Sunday evening.
Filed for divorce the next day and told him to move out. He did the same day.
Luckily no dc or financial ties except a joint tenancy..
Never ever seen him since that Sunday evening...

OP - you really need solicitor’s advice here.
However - based on what you describe - I think the claim you have is for a higher level of support while you are retraining, and then that getting to some other number.
Not sure what you agreed so far.

But be prepared for this all to turn nasty. It often does in this stage. And remember - nothing is really agree until papers are signed. He may and will change his mind many times over

Thanks all.

Call to solicitor made. They'll be back in touch with more information (and fees 😭)
I've written out what I want financially, for the kids, etc in the short to medium term. I'd already checked things like the CMS calculator, etc. I've noted, for me, where I'm flexible and where I'm not. I thought this was all important to be able to refer back to later.

I am pretty sure the first bump in the road will be where he moves to. He'll move out but maybe not just up the road, which he was so adamant about before. So I have flexibility around contact for the children, depending on where he's living. My inflexibility is that the children will reside with me, based on their best interests. And so on.

I've also jotted down ideas on longer term arrangements for a divorce.

Hopefully that should make it easier to go through things with the solicitor.

OP it's quite difficult to follow your OP. Can I recap what I think I understand, your DH is spending money he doesn't have. Who is paying these debts? You or him?

If he is paying the debts, what's the issue? Why are you trying to dictate how he spends money? You're judging that money has been spent on useless things but surely that's his choice.

Do you work? Are you financially supporting him? Are you both financially contributing to the DC?

It all seems a bit odd. Yes he shouldn't be lying about things but equally if you're constantly on his back I can't blame him for lying.

Just because someone has MH problems doesn't mean they can't be an abusive wanker too.

CMS in the first instance. Benefits review via entitledto website. Wikivorce website/forum for advice on your separation and divorce.

Good luck op

@Butterflyflower1234 other posters seem to have found my op clear but I'll try to explain again.
OH is spending more money than we have (despite earning well).
He is not paying off the debts but incurring more.
My attempts to work together to clear the debts have failed as he keeps lying and keeps building more debt.
The debts get minimum monthly repayments and nothing more.

We supposedly agreed earned money is family money, regardless of who earns it. (We are supposed to both still have some disposable income for personal use). When we first lived together, I earned and contributed more. When we had children, I took a step back from my career. I supported him with his and I worked part-time around the kids. I am currently re-training and working on the side (the work is to earn extra money we need because of the debts.) I contribute to the family pot but the bulk of income is 'his'.

There was a time I had no disposable income - nothing to buy new underwear, etc, and some months struggled to things like new shoes for the children from the family pot. I knew what he earned and wanted to work out a new family budget together. He refused and lied about his earnings (even though I knew his salary!!) This was because a) he didn't want to contribute more and b) because he'd run up large credit card debts and therefore had large minimum repayments and was trying to hide that from me.

Maybe I'm a nagging scrounger, as you imply. But I find it wrong for a husband to be buying himself iPads, and expensive meals out while his children have to wait for new shoes.

Maybe he has every right to run up tens of thousands pounds worth of debt and lie about it. Maybe I deserve the lies and deceit for expecting him to stick to what we discussed and agreed; that we were a partnership contributing equally but in different ways. Maybe I was wrong for trying to have open and honest discussions about our family budget. Perhaps I should accept marriage means he can spend what he likes, whenever he likes, regardless of what the rest of the family need. Maybe I should accept that it's okay to accrue large debts without my knowledge, even though I could end up jointly liable for them. But I won't. It's not okay to me.

if you're constantly on his back I can't blame him for lying

Not necessary.

For lying you could substitute:

Drinking
Gambling
Sleeping with prostitutes
Taking drugs
The list could go on and on.

@ToEarlyForDecorations Thank you!

He got away with lying and running up debts because I trusted him and wasn't 'on his back'. I paid little attention to what he did with his personal money. I only raised things when I needed to and from a position of trust. So 'We need to have a chat now I'm on maternity leave to re-work the budget'. That type of thing.

Since I found out about the lies and debts I have been on his case more. But wanting debts re-paid and honesty going forward, is normal behaviour.

It's depressing that sexist tropes about nagging wives deserving what they get still exist.

It's depressing that sexist tropes about nagging wives deserving what they get still exist.

This is usually male posters on this site. Or just women delighting in being goady keyboard warriors.

I think the phrase makes sense, both for your situation and sunrise previous threads.

You deserve a transparent partnership / well done for not accepting what is going on. Wishing you luck

Thank you to those who offered support.

I've got myself organised. He is leaving, I have relevant appointments lined up. Completed relevant forms/printed necessary letters. And I feel relieved. I've also realised just how much I'd changed trying to keep this relationship going. So I feel sort of free now, and as though I can feel my old self returning. I have my moments of doubt and terror, particularly when I think about the children. But onwards and upwards from now on.

Good. Long may it continue.

Great update. Best of luck