how can I deal with dp's incessant white lies?

[LeavesOnTheLine]

have name changed

I honestly did not notice this until very recently when I picked up that dp had told a very little white lie about something but now I've noticed it, I am absolutely and utterly gobsmacked that he is literally lying about the most minor, silly things all the time (we have been together for years).

dp's father left when he was v young and his mother was hyper critical of him. She has described dp (even to me) as 'her disappointment'. Even his ex told me dp's mother is absolutely vicious. She constantly compares him to his older siblings who are all v successful.

Dp says this is why he started lying. To avoid the criticism. And now it is just part of him.

The reason I twigged is a few weeks ago he was meant to go to a gig with a friend of his but he told me the friend had said he had an overseas visitor and would he mind if he went instead and dp said sure go ahead. I happened to bump into said friend (v unusual for me to bump into dp's friends) and he asked how dp was as dp didn't go to the gig as he was unwell!

I started then looking at a lot of things dp had said to me and they all started unravelling. For example, there was a day when I needed him to pick up something for ds and he told me the company had called him and rescheduled. I called them and they told me that it was dp who had rescheduled. This was obviously because dp hadn't wanted to do it that day so just changed it but by blaming it on them!

Everything he appears to lie about is to stop anyone criticising him and to do what suits him. It basically gives him an easy life.

but I don't know if I can live like this now I've figured out what he's doing. Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Dp does not even see this as an issue probably because it's so ingrained.

First of all, they're not "white lies". They're lies. Please don't minimise, OP.

Second, this is deeply ingrained behaviour, and it will take counselling or therapy to undo it. Problem is that lying in a counselling/therapy room simply perpetuates the issue.

I would leave him. I really would.

We have quite literally just bought a house together. It couldn't be worse timing.

I'm not sure even therapy would work as it would be such a change in mindset for him. Now I am noticing it more too, I'm actually more annoyed about it.

He is v apologetic but I don't think it will stop. I am still honestly gobsmacked that he's like this - we have a great relationship, he's hugely supportive of me and my dcs (and I am of his). It has truly shocked me!

With almost 100% certainty, I think you have to choose whether you're willing to live with this, or whether you are not.

I don't think any change whatsoever will come from him. But you, on the other hand, can effect quite a dramatic change in your circumstances - and ultimately for the better, imo.

Is it anxiety based? DH does this and it drives me flipping mad. I've actually taken him to couples counselling (and we'll be heading back soon) because how can we communicate if he cant be honest at all about anything. Everything has to be hard work, complex with him as the downtrodden victim. E.g. he had a planned commitment this weekend and clearly didnt want to go so went on about how ill he was and then made an excuse. Just say you dont want to go! He'll say food he doesn't like 'makes him ill' and told work he needed time off to care for poorly DD when he just wanted leave. I appreciate it's due to his mother who has to catastrophise everything but i find it annoying and immature. Medication has helped with his anxiety and I now call out the lies every single time. Its exhausting though and makes me question my marriage.

So yeah white lies are “do I look awful” - “no you are beautiful” when you look awful.
He’s just being a lying twat and it’s very disrespectful.

These are not little white lies. Your dh pretends to be somewhere he is not and creates tasks in order not to pull his weight with the family. This is worrying.

Yep, he needs therapy with someone who specialises in toxic parents.

You need to decide your boundaries and tell him. Then stick to them.

thanks all. Yes blackcat86 it has really made me think about how I bring up my ds and the situation with your dp is v similar. Because I can now totally see how this has come about and how hard it is now to fix. I do think a lot of it is anxiety but over his health. He has recently been diagnosed with a long term condition that is life threatening especially if he doesn't look after himself. But I don't want to only blame it on that because he was like this before that, I think it just exacerbates it! Because he doesn't want to say to people, I can't do this because I'm not well because he finds it hard to really even admit that to himself. But it was in his character to lie like this before the health condition came about.

I don't think he sees the harm he does with these lies. He hasn't said that but I can see the way he thinks now.

I'm not sure I can live with it. The problem is that I will start to doubt anything he tells me now which will just kill the relationship. I think I need to make this clear to him so he understands how much he is putting on the line.

I meant your situation with your dp is similar to mine (not that I am bringing up ds similarly to how your dp was!)

As a child I had a similar problem. I managed to deal with it by the end of secondary school (supportive games teacher who wondered just what was going on at home after I passed out in class and then told him I hadn't eaten because I was so fat...I wasn't in anyone's eyes but my mum's). In my case it was caused by years of being made to feel worthless, useless and pathetic by the person meant to love me. Of being told she wished I was a cot death statistic (as a 4 year year old), of never being good enough, of having my art work destroyed if I took it home because it was rubbish and should be thrown on the fire as an example. It did a massive amount of damage to my personality which I suspect I'll never fully recover from.

As an adult I've been diagnosed with c-pstd and attachment issues.
I'm still absolutely terrified of conflict. The thought of an argument makes me sick to my stomach. Even though I know my dh isn't my parents and that he loves me, whenever I think I've screwed up, my instincit is to default to that behaviour I learned to try and deflect my mum's rage.

If you want to try and keep your relationship going, I'd suggest therapy for him and to keep pushing the fact that you care more about the lying than you do anything else. Ideally giving examples like the ones you site above to try and get him to see he's making issues where none existed. You likely didn't care whether he went out with his friend or not, you do care about the lying and repeat.

Ask him how he explained the difference between lying and truth to his kids. It's possible that explaining it in a way you would to a small child will work best. I know when the desire to lie hits me, it's coming from a situation which makes me feel tiny, vulnerable and terrified, just like I did as a child.

Depending on how old he is, he might not be willing/capable of changing though because it's a decision which needs to come from him and given your second example, I'm not sure he'll have the motivation.

I had one of those for a while. I left him. I can't deal with a relationship where I never know the truth or what is happening or why. It's just not a partnership.

Hey op, this isn't a situation I've ever been in but I think you firstly have to decide whether you want to stay with him and try and help him through this, or just "cut your losses" and leave him to it.

If you want to stay together then counselling or some kind of therapy seems to be the answer. But I think he'd need therapy on his own to work through his issues, as well as couples therapy with you to help your relationship. You can't stay in a relationship with him as things stand. How could you ever trust him. I almost feel sorry for him because he can't be in a proper relationship with anyone when he lies like this. I can see how his mother (who sounds awful) has fucked him up, but I think lying shows a lack of trust in you as well. He has to trust that you won't be super critical of him, and that he can make mistakes and that you're not his mother basically! You can't be truly close to someone if you're lying to them.

You said yourself that he doesn’t see it as an issue. And that he does it as a way to do what suits him and to get an easy life. Remember that because it means he isn’t going to change. All the therapy or support from you in the world won’t fix this if he doesn’t want to fix it, and he doesn’t.

thanks for sharing dinosaur. That all sounds very painful and it sounds like you've worked very hard to make the changes that you needed. Your situation is so similar to dp - his mother made him feel so worthless. My last conversation with him he was telling me about how he won an award at school and he ran back home to tell her, so pleased he could finally make her proud and she turned around, in front of all his siblings and said 'well everyone in the class has to get an award in their time at school and it was just your time, nothing special' and she turned around and didn't even look at him. He said he felt so small and worthless and every time he even gets near the hint of criticism, he feels like that small and worthless child again. He did sob and sob after he told me this.

53rdway I think he doesn't see it as an issue because it's not something anyone has really flagged to him before. I think he views it as 'his' issue rather than an issue that would impact anyone else. His ex broke up with him for other reasons. I do think some people are more tolerant of stuff like this. I'm not though - I'm really honest and upfront and find lying v hard to deal with. So he doesn't see it as an issue as as far as he's concerned, it's not causing any damage. Except it will if I leave because I can't cope with it!

I think I have to be very clear that I can't tolerate it. But I think you are all right, even if he did agree to go to therapy, I can't see this changing fast or even at all.

That's really hard. Are there any support groups regarding his health condition he could join for support in general? Yes I've also really considered my parenting of DD. I'm phasing out any childcare from PIL and generally distancing myself from them. I've also looked into gentle parenting (not to the extreme but as a general way of parenting) and we baby sign so DDs wishes can be understood, met and respected.

Oh of course, a man is lying so it must be a woman's fault somehow... ...

There's a difference between lying to avoid conflict due to an abusive childhood and lying for the sake of lying about anything and everything. And trust me, if he lies so easily about 'little' things, he lies about bigger things too. You just haven't found out about those yet.

My DH is also a pathological white liar - most of the time little things but it makes it then hard to trust him over the bigger things

When I've confronted him before about it he's said it's because he thought he'd be in more trouble by telling the truth! (He didn't have a bad upbringing by the way just a bit of a man child)

I love him so have managed to work past it over the years but I do tightly manage all our finances as a lot of the little lies involved money

My ex used to tell lies to avoid being "told off". I used to frequently tell him I'm not his mum, over all sorts! When he left I found out a lot of huge lies. And he's still lying now we're divorcing.

My ex was like this, little lies over the silliest of things. And he HATED being caught or called out on them. He was of the ‘never apologise, never explain’ type. He’s still doing it now, I’ve seen a recent Facebook post of his telling an out and out lie about something that happened when we would have been together. We are not friends on there, but it made me chuckle when someone replied to his post with ‘ I don’t remember this happening, mate?’ 😆

I guess it’s a positive thing that your DP is admitting he’s doing it and it is a problem. Hopefully he can get help for this.

These lies sound more designed to get him out of doing things he just can’t be arsed to do!

Does he really have a tortured past or is he just lazy?

Everything he appears to lie about is to stop anyone criticising him and to do what suits him. It basically gives him an easy life.

DH has a hypercritical father and is pathological about avoiding blame. Uses deflection and a whole host of things including infrequent lying.

But, and this is a big but, he knows this and also doesn't lie or deflect to save himself time or effort. He only does any of this to avoid guilt and blame. Not work.

I'm not sure I could put up with him lying for an easy life.

Can you call him out on it every time. Maybe if he sees how often he is doing it he will understand how you can't trust him or really even know him.

If he lies about everything how can you tell what's fiction and what's fact? What does he really think, feel, believe? How can he know his own self if everything is a lie.

He needs serious help. But he needs to see the problem first.

Well it's a very good point and one I have made to him. How am I meant to know he's lying or not now! I said his behaviour makes me really doubt everything he says to me now which can't continue.

It is a guilt avoiding/deflection thing. I'm probably being a bit harsh saying easy life - it feels that way to me because I'm pissed off. But the moving of collecting something for ds was (I'm sure) because he wasn't well that day. But rather than say 'I won't pick it up today because I'm ill and I'll rearrange for tomorrow when hopefully I'm a bit better' he'll just blame the other person for rearranging. He's done that to avoid being criticised.

I'm totally non critical btw - I have a v special needs/mental health issues ds so I'm super patient and understanding so wouldn't criticise dp for something as trivial as rearranging a collection. But when I say easy life, what I mean is he'll change the story so that absolutely no blame or criticism could ever be attached to him, whether it should or shouldn't.

It's just so frustrating. And I can't call it out because I don't necessarily know when it's happening.

I don't think he believes that I would take this so seriously that I would leave him for it and I think that's the piece of information I need to give to him. I have a few weeks off work over Xmas when I'll try and have a serious chat with him.

This is all fairly familiar OP, my DH grew up with an overly critical father, resulting in low self esteem and a tendency to lie to deflect blame/save face/appear perfect. I hate to tell you but it's taken me the best part of 20 years to make him understand that the thing he does to avoid losing me (lying) is the very thing I am most likely to leave him for.

It has nearly broken us several times, not because the things he's lied about were anything major, it was purely the lying and the damage that did to my trust in him. Something seemed to click in him a couple of years back and it finally dawned on him that I wasn't going anywhere.

It's different now, he finally gets that I don't expect him to be perfect so he doesn't lie to try to make me think he is. And my trust is building, I have the odd wobble but I'm honest with him when it happens and we get through it together. Crucially, he takes full responsibility for damaging trust in the first place and seems pretty committed to fixing it.

I can't tell you what your DP needs to get to that point, that's something you and he need to work out together but I thought it might help to know it can be done. I hope you can get through to him over Christmas, PM me anytime if you think it might help