Very worried about a relative - suicide trigger warning

[VickyTheVicountess]

Hello

I am very worried about my relative who has attempted suicide several times recently. I believe they are serious attempts, but so far it hasn't happened. The person in question told me about it which is how I know. They are seeing a counsellor regularly and the counsellor is apparently aware of the suicide attempts.

I have no experience with these issues and I honestly can't believe that the relative hasn't been admitted to hospital. Surely this is risky, leaving them alone?

The other worry is that the relative has been using sleeping pills for this and gets them from the GP and continues to get repeat prescriptions. Surely the GP should be aware of this.

The counsellor is not through the NHS, so I think the relative is the one keeping the GP up to speed, but possibly isn't.

The relative is really not looking after themselves and said their house is a complete pig sty. They are drinking too much and it's full of bottles and takeaway boxes etc.

I do not live anywhere nearby (think they live in London, I live in Edinburgh), so I can't pop round. I have very young children and no childcare.

What can I do? Long term I want to help them with practical things, like finding a place they can afford to live. Currently they are living off savings which are fast disappearing, in an expensive rental property. They have no (useful) family nearby. But I don't know who I can call in the meantime?

I have said to them that the next time they feel like doing this, they should get a cab to hospital and ask to be admitted or if they can't manage it, phone me and I will phone the police or someone. But I have absolutely no idea if this is right.

We had a good chat by phone and they seemed a lot better by the end of the call, but obviously they could be putting it on or could go downhill again while I'm not in contact.

Any advice so much appreciated.

I'm going to ask op to amend the wording in the op as think one of the words might be insensitive. Apologies if you read it before it can be amended.

You won't like my advice. There is nothing you can do. Do not set yourself up as pseudo-counsellor. The person is drinking. You can't solve that. S/he has mental health support so that's a good thing. What s/he is seeking from you might not be pure and healthy.

I guess your family keeps these things hyper secretive? You won't even reveal the person's sex, age, relationship to you on an anonymous forum. You've got a high level of shame and secrecy going on there. What's that all about?

It's more that I don't want them to read it and feel.I've betrayed a confidence.

Unfortunately people won't be admitted to hospital in this day and age unless they are very much a risk and sometimes professionals do get this wrong BUT, they've obviously not consented to being hospitalised and you cannot section someone who is intoxicated in their own home.

If they are drinking until they are dry their problems are not going to stop and it's a vicious cycle.

Be very wary of getting involved and very boundaried around this. What @FGSJoanWhatsWrongWithYou said is very very true.

You can't help them by a) doing it for them or b) being some never ending helpline. It doesn't encourage any responsibility of themselves and certainly doesn't help them make choices which turn things around. Sadly things may get worse before they get better.

Most practically maybe talk to social care in their area and raise a concern about a vulnerable adult with difficult living circumstances?

I should say even if they were willing to be admitted the likelihood of getting a bed is slim unless they are an immediate risk to themselves or others.

If they wanted admission theyd have to go through their mental health team or a&e

I don't think alcohol is the only problem tbh. They first contacted Samaritans when they were completely dry and this is an ongoing problem.
The alcohol seems to be an attempt at self medicating. They would consent to being hospitalised, but nobody has suggested it, until I mentioned it. They didn't think this was a bad idea at all.

X post.

Hi OP, hospital admission based on what you have posted is very unlikely. Section 2 admission is only when there is immediate danger to oneself or others and even that depends on a bed being available in a secure psychiatric unit.

To be brutally honest, there is nothing you can do. Drinking might be self medicating but definitely acts as a depressant and exacerbates feelings of suicide ideation. I'm in AA and really understand this first hand and from many friends.

The Samaritans are the best source of support and it's good that your relative has mental health support but ultimately your relative has free will and is responsible for him or herself.

Honestly, my personal feeling is you can't help and I say that as someone who's Dad committed suicide.
I feel they have to want to help themselves, so I think it is a good thing they are seeing a counsellor. They can't just be admitted although I get why you feel like that.
Be gentle on yourself, it is not your burden to carry. I'm not saying don't care, but you can't change them or impose what you want

There is a similar issue in my close family, OP, and it's just awful. Not knowing what to do to help, never quite knowing if they are ok or are somewhere trying to take their life, while I'm pottering on in my life. Feeling helpless not knowing if I've said or done the right thing. Then bubbles of anger towards the person start rising up, then guilt and shame that I've felt angry towards someone in so much pain. Wanting someone else - anyone - to step in and help, and resenting other family members for "not caring" or not doing enough. Its awful.

People advise you to let this person take responsibility and not to rescue them. But if someone is hanging on by their fingertips over a long drop, no one would walk by and say to that person to take responsibility. No, they'd try and help pull them up.

We finally got the the suicidal/suffering/stuck person in our family to see a therapist - who we found, and booked the first session on their behalf so all the family member had to do was turn up. We've made clear we are always there for them night or day.

We've advised them to tell their work that they are struggling (they have not done this).

I completely understand your not wanting to be more specific - neither do I, but if you want to PM me I'll share more with you off line.

Thank you bucking.

lobster, I 'know' you from other threads and think you sound fab. I also know you have personal experience with alcoholism.

We have had alcoholics in the family and I lost a parent fairly young to alcoholism, so I am really about alcohol. The drinking is absolutely a problem and I know it makes depression worse, so the self medicating cycle goes on and on. It does worry me that this person is drinking too much. I also know there is a limit to what you can do to help there is more to it.

This person is still quite young and has made some poor choices, but also been incredibly unlucky and has had some awful things happen to them. I don't think it is really free will at this point, but absolute helplessness.

Really wary*

To help alcoholics, but there is more to it*

What is triggering the suicide attempts?

Did they have an abusive upbringing?
Do they have friends and family for support,
I know you have said they have some (useless) family nearby.

Can i suggest watching a YouTube video by Sacha Slone called An alternative to suicide.

It is controversial but having been suicidal myself, this hit a note with me.

Anything that can prevent a death and set the person back on a path they can manage is always a good thing in my opinion.

Thank you.

Triggers are a bereavement, a really unpleasant divorce, another breakup and a problem with a parent starting a new relationship with a heavy drinking, possibly abusive partner.

These things all happened in the past six years or so.

I can hear your concern and live and fear so clearly OP. As others have said, ultimately there is nothing you can do to change any outcome BUT as you say this is not about free will. This is an illness and contributing factors skewing their responses and actions. I think the advice to contact the local council about a vulnerable adult is an excellent proactive step you can take. If you know where they are living? But your first priority is to yourself and your children. It is so hard to hear and do I know.

There may also be workplace bullying happening, to add that to the mix.

Thank you for the advice to contact the council. I might try and do that. I do know their address.

Hi @VickyTheVicountess I didn't mean to sound dismissive or unfeeling with my "free will" comment. I truly understand where you are in desperately wanting to help this person. I do appreciate that people can't be generalised and that there isn't one solution - I read on another thread that people who are genuinely contemplating suicide don't ever talk about it - and thought, rubbish! I know from painful experience that they do.

Given your experience with alcoholics and that alcohol is a real problem here, would this person consider AA? I don't preach it all the time but it's a safe place where this person would undoubtedly meet others who have been where he/she is, which can be of a tiny bit of comfort, knowing that you are not alone. Often alcohol is a symptom rather than a cause.

I've thought of you and your thread since I last posted; I really feel for you.

Thanks lobster and absolutely no offence taken at the "free will" comment. I respect your opinion and appreciate you commenting.

Same to everyone on here. Thank you for taking the time.

I think AA would be a good idea. They could go every day if they wanted and talk about how they're feeling. My parent did find AA and it was absolutely wonderful for them, but sadly, the damage was done and they died quite suddenly shortly after.

The only slight hesitation I would have is that this relative is an ARDENT atheist. I don't know how that side of things with the higher power thing would work. Or maybe it's less to do with that these days?

But, I feel like my parent died at peace and that wouldn't have been possible without the AA and...controversially...the church actually. But I know many people would not go down that road.

You definitely don't have to believe in God - as you correctly say, it's very much a higher power concept. We do start the serenity prayer with "...using the word god as you understand it". Some people use "Group Of Drunks" as "GOD", or the sea, universe, nature etc. In fact we make a point of telling newcomers that their higher power can be pretty much of their choosing.

I really hope that it might help your relative. As you say, there are daily meetings and of course some are more to individuals' tastes than others - you meet people you really bond with and others you don't like much, but you're all there for the same reason.

If your relative is in London and they would like additional support, you could recommend The Listening Place (near Victoria), which is specifically set up to provide face to face support for suicidal individuals. There is more continuity with one individual than the Samaritans. Other London services include Maytree, which provides one off respite care (don't know how easy it is to get a referral). You could also look at your relative's local Mind in case they offer some appropriate support (there are different services in different areas)

Has your relative shared their feelings with the GP do you know? Have they been hospitalised for previous attempts? If so, you'd expect this to be a trigger point for further referral, including to specialist mental health services.

It is great that your relative has a counsellor, and that they are talking to you. Keep that conversation with your relative open because it can be hard to talk about suicide, so the fact that they have with you is to be encouraged, though it must be very hard on you.

The question about confidentiality is a tough one: on the one hand, it is of course so important that the NHS has safeguarding processes to support vulnerable individuals, but if people feel they will get 'told on' for feeling suicidal, it can cause them to avoid seeking help (just to help explain the differences in policies that you'll see and what the counsellor will be weighing up). You would hope that the counsellor will be the member of a professional organisation which has ethical guidance, and will be weighing up their responsibilities in supervision, but of course it depends on who they are. Do you know this? I think if it were me, what would make me feel most reassured would be if my relative had a combination of NHS support (who could escalate levels of care if needed) AND a counsellor or similar.

It sounds a difficult and complex situation: of course depression and alcohol are a toxic mixture, but it sounds as though there are a great many other factors at play too.

You sound very kind. Take care of yourself as well

Depression and suicidal thoughts are very, very lonely roads to walk and healing can take time, look very messy and hard to understand from the outside and is such a personal experience. I'd agree with others who say you can't rescue your relative, and sometimes the anxiety of a family member over someone's current mental state and need to 'fix' the person can be an added burden on an already overburdened mind so it is an incredibly difficult balance to find. I would say just being open to talk but also maintaining your own life and having healthy boundaries is the best you can do for now.

Hi OP - the drinking needs to be dealt with first. Anti depressants do not work well with alcohol. Also there maybe a crisis team attached to there local mental health services. It’s great they are going to see a counsellor. It shows they are motivated to get help and want things to be different.
Life is tough and more difficult this time of year.
You can only be a listening ear for the relative.
If you want them to visit that’s an option.
Good luck.