Social tips for coping with mum cliques? ... Struggling!

[user1476293103]

I'm taking my daughters to various classes during the week as we homeschool. Some of them insist parents stay on the premises.

Everyone is friendly at first while they suss you out. But then they split off into little mum cliques/groups and look right through you as if you're invisible.

I'm not a shy person and I'm usually ok at networking if I have to do it for work. But these mum cliques are really stressing me out and making me feel quite sick inside.

I don't think I'm being paranoid. But I kind of get glanced through as if I'm not there; there's a subtle shifting of chairs, so there's no room at the table; or they look away when I smile and try to make eye contact.

I've tried getting there early and chatting to mums individually and they usually seem ok -- until the other mums arrive. Then, it's like a 'reset' button and then they form their little groups of 3 or 4 again.

I guess I'm slightly different in that most of them are stay-home mums. I try not to talk about work, but I do sense the energy is a bit different when they are handmaking advent calendars or wrapping paper for example, as I'd never have the time for something like that. But we're all people at the end of the day with the same hopes and dreams and disappointments.

Do I keep trying? Do I give up? When people are in a group, talking, should I just say: "Is it ok if I sit with you?" and kind of edge my way in, even though they clearly don't want to talk to me?

How does everyone else cope? I feel totally out of my depth for what to do.

I don't think there's anything wrong with me - bad breath, smells, talking about myself non-stop, etc and I am usually quite confident and not fazed by much, especially talking 1 to 1.

But these mum groups I find really intimidating.

Does anyone have any tips please? Like if everyone is chatting and no room at the table, do you just loiter like Nobby No Mates. Or do you go and sit elsewhere -- also like Nobby No Mates.

Help!!!

No advice I'm afraid but lots of sympathy, it sucks.

I've experienced this in various situations and have no idea why people do it. Some groups need a 'scapegoat' and others follow suit like sheep. If you're the only one working, perhaps that's you because it marks you out as different and for some, difference is a threat. I don't know, I'm only guessing.

I can only suggest you take up knitting or bring a book. Perhaps use the time constructively to do something. That's what I would do.

Keep going. Get there early. Hold on to the few nuggets of communication. I'm very social. Took me 8 months.

Weirdly once id begun to fit in I realise I didn't like it!

Not sure why you want to talk to them.
You don’t seem to have anything in common except your children’s activities.
Just go in your phone or read a book.
Lots of small talk is painful for everyone.

What is wrong with people???

It's so unfriendly and closed. Some people are like that at exercise class, I always smile and say hi when someone new joins the class.

I would be bright and breezy and just sit down with them. "Hi, can I join you? I'm Chottie and my DDs have just started xxx" I would ask lots of questions about the activity and about their DC. People love talking about themselves. At the end I would smile, say how nice it's been meeting them all and having a chat.

I would also bring my knitting / crochet as suggested by @12345kbm12345kbm This is also a good talking point / ice breaker, lots of people have ended up asking me to teach them how to knit or crochet.

Agree with @Whoops75. With DD I got very stressed out at baby groups trying to make friends and chat. Quickly realised I had very little in common with them. I work full time and once my job was mentioned even the low level amicablity turned low.

DD is now 4, attends various classes. I go in with her, smile with parents present and sit in a corner with my phone. I have my own friends outside of this and not fussed about making friends at these activities.

I home educate so feel vaguely well placed to answer this

First of all, are you primarily going for your DD to make friends, for your DD to learn stuff, or for you to make friends of your own? If you can get clear with yourself about what you want then that will help you to view the group in the right light. All home ed groups are different, and if the classes are aimed at all children rather than just home edders then obviously you'll get a different mix of people with different priorities.

However, that said, my number one bit of advice would be to persevere and don't judge people too harshly. They might feel awkward or find you a bit shy and difficult to get to know, but once you get past the initial awkwardness you could make some great friends. But the other adults have to be there with at least an idea they WANT to make friends: if they are literally just passing the time like mums at swimming that's a very different setup to a warm, social community focused group who meet weekly and have an activity but are also aimed at socialising.

Also, it's not a 'mum group' it's a bunch of individuals - is there anyone there you like? Think you might click with? You don't sound like you like them, or that you view them as very different to you, perhaps they are picking that up. Have you tried just starting a conversation? Don't wait for them to do it, get right in there. Ask if you can help with anything, tidying or set up. Ask how long they've been home schooling and how old their kids are. If you like someone it tends to come across and then you can have some nice chats and they'll hopefully learn a bit more about you.

I am painfully shy so I know how hard it is when you want to connect and make friends but others seem frosty. But I've learned to give others the benefit of the doubt, and have also witnessed how shy people can appear stuck up and snobby even when they're secretly dying of loneliness inside. That made me realise how I must have come across at times.

And what's wrong with making handmade advent calendars?
I hope you will keep going back, maybe expand to find a few more social groups and will find your tribe. Failing that, start one of your own. You'll soon make new friends.

Tbh I'd be a bit annoyed if you thought of me as part of a "mum clique". Why define me only as a mum? If you're an adult at the class it's basically a given that you're a parent.

I imagine they are often preexisting friendship groups. When I took my dc to groups I'd naturally gravitate to the people I knew best. I was a SAHM for five years and I went to a lot of groups to stay sane. Over time I got to see the same few faces and we ended up very close. It did take time though, months really of being out and about proactive about chatting to people. When I went toddler things and people were chatting in groups, I just assumed they knew each other- I certainly didn't take it personally. Your use of the term mum cliques is a bit odd - it seems to suggest a degree of exclusivity and malice to what are just established groups of people. It takes time to make those connections with new people.

I don't know whether this will help. I've been home educating for years. When I started it took a long time to feel included although everyone was friendly enough. It takes a while to find people you click with within a group and even longer to develop friendships.

When we come to groups, it's a chance to catch up with friends who we might have been looking forward to seeing for a while. I am quite shy and while I'll push myself to welcome someone new, I can't sustain a level of surface small talk for very long. After I've seen someone a few times, I assume they're not new any more and doing what they need to at that group. - Some people don't want to be bothered. I also wouldn't be getting what I need from being there if conversation was all very general and I might have felt like I was limping through the week towards this particular group to offload with my friends there. It's totally normal for people to be chatting in groups of 3 or 4 trusted support network of friends on a deeper level.

We have a big mix of people come to our groups. I'd be surprised if you are being isolated because you work or don't make advent calendars. I don't have time for that sort of thing! I also don't have time or energy to judge based on how people arrange their lives. Is there a child there that your child gets on well with? You could swap details with that child's parent and invite them for lunch and to play. It's a good way of getting to know people quite quickly and just add importantly letting them get to know you, so that you can become part of a trusted group dynamic. It you see something that on that you think your child will enjoy having a friend with them, invite them. Etc. Keep plodding away at it.
Sometimes it really helps to tell people how you feel, that you're new and don't feel comfortable yet. Or that you're concerned your child hasn't made many friends yet. People will do their best to help. People are usually that wrapped up in getting through their own day that they haven't realised that someone is struggling.

Create working mum groups at these places. There are bound to be loads of mums that work that might sometimes be there at the same time

I'm a sahm and I go to a lot of things. Sometimes mums are really friendly and sometimes they're not. Sometimes I'M really friendly and sometimes not. Don't take it personally. In a week I come across hundreds of parents. I can't remember all their names or be buddies with them. It's impossible, and I'm really tired. Kids are demanding. If I go to something and nobody talks to me I feel lucky! Take a book, if you like. I prefer to stare into space.

But do you need friends, OP? Do you actually like any of these people? It wouldn’t occur to me to persevere if people were unfriendly, I’d just bring a book and read happily while the class was on.

Like, it's not networking. We're not "on". We're just waiting for the kids. Oftentimes, in a bad mood, I'll just go stand there and talk to nobody. That's fine. At a work event or a party obviously it wouldn't be.

I try to avoid socialising with other mums in my area. So much less stress. I know they will talk about me but I'd rather that than be drawn in to their group and constantly wondering if I fit in. Stay anonymous for the good of your health!

I know what you mean. When I had my dd1 I was dying of loneliness and suffering pnd. I used to go to the local children’s centre and I would see the same group of 4 mums all with babies born at the same time - and they would act like I was invisible. Would not even acknowledge my presence. It was a relatively small town so I’d see them individually when out walking with dd and even then they’d act like they couldn’t see me. It made my life so much harder and sadder and honestly, if I could meet them now I’d like to tel them they’re a bunch of closed-off shits with no manners or social skills.

I put it down to them being insecure and lacking confidence. It takes nothing to say hello and people who refuse to do so despite seeing the same faces repeatedly are extremely rude.

Just do your own thing. You do not want to make friends with people who exclude others.

Oh and to illustrate my last point - I’ve accidentally become friends with two mums who are cliquey at swimming lessons - and I can’t wait to get away from them. I find their attitudes to ‘others’ and people who are not already on their group really cold. It’s almost a selfishness of ‘well I’m sorted with my friends so why should I bother thinking about you’.

I’m changing swimming lessons.

I'm afraid that this is nothing new. My eldest is 29, I remember standing in the playground in her first year of primary, I happened to be standing very near a 'clique'. A mum was dishing out flyers for a Christmas gift party event, she gave them out to all the clique, then saw me standing there and said (embarrassingly) "oh do you want one", I felt an inch big, an afterthought, a saddo, and I've never forgotten it 25 years on.

The school gates are the worse place for this kind of behaviour, it really does seem like your face has to fit.

I've no advice but to say, be confident, ask to join their 'circle' and watch their response. People are territorial, will need time to break in to their territory. Personally I never had the confidence I have now, I'd tell the me now to get stuck in!

Just prefacing that this is not my view but some of my friends think this way. It’s probably because they may think homeschooling is weird? And maybe they think they won’t have anything in common with you? Some people are funny about it and think it doesn't benefit kids, that it’s too controlling and is usually for the highly religious. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Just don’t worry about those cliquey mums. They’re everywhere!!

I do sense the energy is a bit different when they are handmaking advent calendars or wrapping paper for example, as I'd never have the time for something like that. I'd say that's your problem. I work full time too but if you're coming across as "oh I couldn't possibly have the time for anything you do because I work don't you know" it's going to grate on them. Plenty of working parents have time for hobbies. Even as a single parent working full time with no family support or support/childcare from his dad I could still do things at home in the evening.

If I were you I'd say "do you mind if I join you?" And keep to light topics, make sure you seem interested etc. Although if it were me I'd more than likely be sat in a corner on my phone mumsnetting and enjoying the peace!

Are you trying to make friends?

I have three kids and am generally quite busy, and often can't really be bothered to make small talk with strangers!
I wouldn't describe sitting/chatting with people you're already friends with as being in a 'clique' though.

Maybe if you want to make mum friends you could try apps like Mush or Peanut and find other people who also want to make new friends?

Give it up. They sound like dicks.

Use the time to get some admin jobs done on your phone.