Relationship Risk - BF - Long post alert.

[schnizzle001]

My relationship with my best friend is at risk due to our DD's falling out...

OK, some context.. My BF and I have known each other since we were 5. We're now early 50's. We lost touch for some years between ages 20-35 due to lives taking different paths but got back together again which I cherish.

Our DD's are 15 years old. I love her daughter like my favourite niece (I've no nieces so I'm OK to say that :) ) They've been friends since toddlers, but never best friends (went to different schools in primary, but acted like cute cousins when they got together).

As the girls grew up, they started attending the same high school. Different friend groups/dynamics meant they weren't in each others pockets, but met up now and then and kept the friendship going. Around this time last year my DD became friendly with another lovely girl, and relationship between my DD and BF's DD became strained. It took them 5 months to start speaking again. My daughter apologised for maybe not being there as much as BF DD would like, but that it was OK for them both to have lots of different friends as long as they both worked at maintaining the friendship. When my DD finished her apology, she asked BF DD to reciprocate and she refused, saying she'd nothing to apologise for.

Some additional context.. I've heard BF DD call my DD some horrible names over the years, and I also noticed that whenever we were all together, and I was joking around with my DD, that BF DD would pick up on bits of sarcasm negatively and use them against my DD. I've also heard BF DD comment negatively on my DD's weight (my DD very naturally slim), but I went for a subtle attitude readjustment instead of confrontation directly with BF DD, and I never forget the angst of being 15 and managing these relationships so didn't and still don't see any of this is a huge deal. If something was a huge deal, I guided my DD how to deal with it, as I knew that me and BF getting in the middle of anything to do with the girls would be a real threat to our relationship.

So, today...

DD and BF DD fell out at school a couple of months ago. BF DD had for weeks been angry and lashing out at the group in school. My DD had enough and moved tables. My BF contacted me saying she wanted to speak to me about it. In order that it didn't get into a "she-said, she-said" scenario, I suggested it might be an idea to get the girls together to help them talk it through. This was agreed but cancelled at last minute on wishes of BF DD.

Things have been strained with me and BF over the last weeks. Very few texts/calls. Plans cancelled several times. I've repeatedly reached out to her in order to get back some normality. I really want us to help guide our girls, but not get directly involved. We eventually were able to meet up yesterday for a quick coffee and chat in between Christmas shopping. I was really looking forward to it...

Sadly, I've come home feeling worse than I did before I left. We had some small talk, pleasant, and then I asked how BF DD was doing. BF said her DD had lost all the "friends" she needed to lose, my DD being one of them, but then also told me that there was no way she could tell her DD that she was meeting me as she would be devastated and unable to trust her Mum going forward and BF not putting her through that. I am absolutely gutted at feeling like a dirty secret this and feel like I've been kicked in the stomach by 2 people I think the world of..

Am I being too sensitive?

Which way now? :(

This is a very difficult situation. It is completely unreasonable for you or your best friend to expect your daughters to be friends. Just because you care for each other doesn't mean your children have to. If you and your friend both can't come to terms with that I fail to see a way forward. Neither of you should be dictating your child's friendships.

By the way, I grew up dealing with this dynamic and it was fucking awful. Allow your daughter to choose her friends.

Couldn't agree more @aquamarine1029... For some reason my BF is looking for my DD to "stick her neck out" for her DD, but this hasn't ever been reciprocated in my eyes..

I see no good of me and BF jumping into this and confronting one another, and see the fact that she needs to keep meeting me a secret as her perpetuating her daughter's controlling behaviour... Time will help this, but appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks for your response. x

Two different friendships, two different dynamics

Both totally autonomous and individual and separate

If you and your best friend can't have a friendship without in some way including into YOUR friendship, 'rules' about your daughters' friendship, then you and your best friend don't have a friendship

You have a codependent, passive aggressive relationship

Hi @Goldenchildsmum.. Not sure what you're saying above re "codependent, passive aggressive relationship".

And for clarity, I don't believe our daughters need to have any kind of friendship - I think they both need to forge their own path, and that my BF and I should remain neutral with each other while individually supporting both our DD's.

Thanks for replying x

You haven’t been neutral. In the OP you describe how you interfered over the weight issue. In doing so you made judgements and took actions. Even if you saw it as subtle.

You are not neutral over your belief in your daughters version of events. This is natural. But, I doubt you know what went on amongst a group of school girls.

@LemonTT - wow. Interfered? What would you do if you overheard someone saying to your daughter she looked anorexic then started laughing. And to give you context, I didn't challenge this directly with BF DD. I told her a few days later that my DD had been upset about people calling her names and commenting on her weight, and asked her to simply look out for her and let me know if she saw or heard anything I needed to get involved in. No direct accusation or adjustment.

Wondering why I posted this now when you jump to so many conclusions without checking further context. Your comment was zero help, so might be an idea to remove yourself from the thread.

A difficult one.

Nothing good will come from you tackling this with your friend. I think I would have said over coffee that I don't want us to fall out over their fall out because we were here first etc. Can you phone her and say that or mention it when you meet next?

No one is neutral here and that is normal in the situation you have.

Let the girls sort it themselves and focus on your friendship, I agree.

Your friendship drifted apart in your 20s and I think you should accept that's what is about to happen. again. If you can manage this without some big showdown then the door will be open to reconnect once your DDs have left home in 3-4 years. You wish she would deal with her DD differently, but you can't control that.

might be an idea to remove yourself from the thread

^ This just makes you look like an arse.

For what its worth I agree with Lemon that you are not neutral, and you can't be, which is why you need to step back.

Thanks @Longfacenow for your post. For clarity again, I have never wanted to interfere on this, My stance has always been let the girls make their own choices. I love them both, and have said to my friend multiple times that we need to back away and let the 2 of them figure it out. I believe my friend disagrees as there was one evening around 6 weeks ago where she texted me several times to "tell my daughter this, and ask my daughter that" and also get another of daughter's friends involved and I advised her that I was really sorry, but I wasn't going to do that and I was worried that if I didn't do what she was asking, that our friendship was at risk. I repeated again yesterday that I was worried about our friendship, and she let me know that for the moment she was putting her daughter first, which I completely understand. I just don't understand why she's being secretive about meeting me. x

@TimeForNewStart - really liked your first post, feeling ready to burst into tears with the second one.

I'm not neutral, you're right, but I would never have confronted my friend about all the things my daughter's spoken to me about. I fully believe the girls need to sort it out themselves and my love for both girls and my friend is unconditional and I'm terrified of losing any of them.

Ah I think I see OP. Then the issue you have here is your friend disagrees with you about what to do? It doesn't matter if you are a secret for a while does it? It won't effect you? It will come out of course eventually and your friend will have to explain the lies to her daughter but that isn't your problem.

There is nothing you can do here but continue to reiterate where you stand and hope it blows over. What a shame this has happened.

Aren’t teenage girls lovely?!! I have 2 teens and one pre-teen so I know exactly how you feel as I have been in a similar scenario only the girls were younger. The best thing your DD can do is ignore your BF DD now. Just completely walk away. Send no messages or texts on any social media platform. If BF’s DD wants to talk and apologise, she will. Simple as that. The friendship between you and your best friend shouldn’t change IMO. You are adults and should not get involved in a silly school girl spat which may well all be forgiven by next week. Your BF is taking it way too personally and not behaving as an adult should. As long as they have their own separate groups of friends and are not insidiously bullying then leave it to work itself out. Your DD is obviously sensible enough that she sees the friendship for what it is. She’s grown tired of the drama and taken herself out of the equation. Good for her! She’ll meet many more people like your BF’s DD along the way and she’s smart enough to know she can choose who to be friends with.

It’s really sad but unfortunately neither of you are likely to be able to stay neutral at least at the moment and it is likely to taint future interactions.

A few years ago my oldest friend and I (in our late twenties at the time!) fell out. In spite of both of us telling our mothers it was nothing to do with them and to keep out of it, they still barely speak. I know my mum finds it hard to forget how hurtful she was to me and I’m sure her mum thinks similar of me as she will have just heard what her daughter has said. My mum talks about it far more than I do.

Hi @Goldenchildsmum.. Not sure what you're saying above re "codependent, passive aggressive relationship".

Sorry. I should have explained more clearly

If you and your best friend had a lovely accepting unconditional friendship, none of this passive aggressive toxicity regarding daughters would affect it.

I was suggesting that your friendship with your best friend isn't as you thought it was

Apologies again for not explaining better in the first place

Very difficult OP, but just let your friendship take a back seat for a while, be nice, be available, don't argue. Those girls will be off to University or something else in 3 years and your friend and you will have a lot to bond about again.

Hi @Goldenchildsmum - thanks for clarifying. Yes I agree, I actually said this to my DH last night that the relationship isn't where I thought it was and think that's what's hurting.

@Batqueen - thanks, and totally agree! Just hope it blows over, but it's been 2 months already..

@Middersweekly - teenage girls - ain't that the truth. I have a 19 year old son, never had any of this with him ;)

@Longfacenow - thanks for your kind words - I hope it blows over too...

@TimeForNewStart - I am stepping back (in fairness I didn't step forward and embroil myself in the drama - in my opinion that's what's frustrating my BF)

xx

@cacklingmags - this this a million times. I get quite obsessive about negative confrontations... This is the morning after the day before, and I'm sure things will resolve one way or another. I'm not an arguer. I'm not confrontational (hate that). I sit on the fence and only when asked for an opinion will always give it constructively. I will always be here for my friend and her daughter. Always.. x

Sorry if I upset you.

Urghhhhhhhhh

You need to step back as much as you can now - you know this, and you are being mindful, it’s obvious from your posts.

But accept, and really brace yourself for your BF winding up the friendship. If she does do that because of the falling out of two teens then honestly ask yourself if the basis of your friendship was as strong as you thought in the first place.

I’m sorry OP, my BF and I drifted a couple of years ago before she totally ghosted me and it hurt me (and still does) more than the collapse of my first marriage.

@TimeForNewStart - thank you - I was a little upset, I'm OK now. x

@paulHollywoodsSexGut- interesting handle :D, yes I think I know this.. "ghosting" is my worry, and I know I'm making a lot of the effort at the minute with very little in return. Hopefully my patience will pay off. x

Your so-called BF sounds manipulative. That's probably rubbed off on her DD. It is ridicolous to expect your DDs to be friends, especially at their age now.

Hey @Grumpelstiltskin - I think the contrary - I think she's being manipulated. I keep thinking about when I asked my BF to let us bring the 2 girls together with us there right at the beginning of the issue, and her daughter refused - this kind of tells me that she knew she'd get called out and lose her advantage over her mum.. :( But hey..

Any progress with BF?