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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Mental health and strained family relationships

43 replies

HornsOfADilemma01 · 21/11/2019 16:35

I’m facing a bit of a situation and I’m not really sure how to tackle it, so I’d be really grateful for some collective Mumsnet wisdom, advice and guidance. As in most situations, there’s a looooong back story, but so as not to bore you to death, I’ll try to give a potted version.

My own childhood was pretty average, I was fed, clothed, had a secure roof over my head, had family holidays, etc, but the family home was a pretty loveless place and I was never made to feel special, cherished or appreciated (quite the opposite). I was groomed and sexually abused from the age of 12 by a much older man (in a position of authority) and his friends. I became pregnant at 16, and my DS was born when I was 17. I’m over 50 now, so DS is grown up, married and has a daughter of his own. He doesn’t know his father because he disappeared before I could even tell him I was pregnant.

Adult life hasn’t always been easy for me….I’ve suffered many periods of poor mental health, I have crushingly low self-esteem (all those early years of abuse have made me crave the attention of men, but believe that my body/sex is all I have to offer), I’ve had a number of bad long-ish term relationships (never abusive relationships, though, more that I’ve picked the wrong men, alcoholics, possessive, emotionally unavailable, etc), I’ve never really been able to put down roots for any length of time, money has always been tight and I’ve moved house and job more times than I care to remember. Throughout this, though, I always put my DS first, doing my very best to ensure he felt safe, secure, loved, supported and valued. We were always very close, I think I was (am) a good mom and, despite him not having the best, most stable start in life, I brought him up to be a good and kind man; he has a great job, loads of close friends, a lovely family and home of his own, and strong values and ethics. I’m very proud of him and the man he’s become.

My parents are elderly and quite infirm. They’re difficult, narrow-minded and judgemental, my DF especially, and I have (in the past) clashed with him quite badly. I have one much older brother who I don’t really know very well. My younger brother sadly died a few years ago. Other than the clashes with my DF, there have been no major fallings-out or arguments in the past and it’s all perfectly amicable and friendly when we do see each other, but it’s safe to say that I don’t have a close and loving relationship with either my parents or my brother. I make a flying visit to my parents once a week (more out of FOG than me actually wanting to see them, if I’m honest), and I see my brother a few times a year (birthdays, Christmas, etc), but none of them ever bother to keep in touch with me outside of these occasions, no phone calls, texts, visits, etc. My brother, however, is very close to my parents (he’s the ‘golden child’), so they do keep in regular touch.

My MH has been very fragile for many years and I admit that I was guilty of isolating myself from people for a long period of time (still do, to some extent). During that hellish time it was all I could do to get myself to work each day, when all I really wanted to do was to sleep, binge eat, stare mindlessly into space…..or die. My parents and brother have no idea that I have these problems with my MH, and I really don’t want them to know…..they’re the kind of people who don’t ‘believe’ in that kind of thing, they simply wouldn’t understand, they would judge me and I know they would view it as a weakness on my part. That’s just how they are. My DS also didn’t know about my MH problems until quite recently, but he still doesn’t know the full extent of how bad things have been for me. I really don’t want to burden him with worrying about me!

In fact, I did such a good job of slapping on a smile, hiding the extent of my illness and isolating myself that no-one could see how unwell I was and, because I already had such an arms-length relationship with my family, I kind of disappeared under the radar. It’s sad to say, but had I acted on my constant suicidal thoughts, the alert would only have been raised when I didn’t turn up at work.

So, fast forward to now and I feel that I am being cut out of the whole family, even by my DS. It’s like I don’t exist. Plans are made and I’m not invited. I’ve lived at my current address for just over a year and not one of my family members even knows where I live. As in they don’t know my address, or even what part of town I live in. In fact, I’ve lived at 3 different addresses over the past 5 years and no-one from the family has visited me in all that time. I never ever receive phone calls or text messages. I always have to make the first contact.

I’m most hurt by my DS’s actions. He has a 2 year old daughter, my only grand-daughter, who I absolutely adore. I’m a good nanna; I’m reliable, I’m responsible, I’m fun, I’m loving, I’m kind, I’m trustworthy. I know that my DGD loves to spend time with me, we have a great fun together! But, unless I specifically make contact and request to see DS, DIL and DGD, I simply never get to see them. The only time I get contacted by them is when I’m needed to babysit. DS & DIL regularly make plans to see my parents (DS is quite close to his grandparents), they regularly make plans to see my DIL’s parents and extended family, they occasionally make plans to see my brother. I only ever find out what they’re doing/where they’ve been when I see posts on Facebook, or when other people tell me. They NEVER make plans to see me. Never. I honestly can’t remember one single time that they’ve specifically made contact with me to arrange a get-together. Get-togethers do happen (infrequently), but only ever when I instigate them.

DS & DIL are moving house soon, and today, I’ve found out that DS has taken his grandfather (my DF) to see their new house. The new house is really close to where I live. Yet not once did DS think that I - his mother - might like to see their new house.

When I do make contact to instigate a get-together, I’m normally told “we can’t see you then because we have plans with (insert whoever here)”. I’ve spoken to DS about this a couple of times; the last time I did, DS acknowledged that he could do better in keeping up with contact but he was of the opinion that I’d not bothered with them either (which is possibly partially true, due to my self-imposed isolation). At the time, I didn’t feel strong enough to argue that I’ve ALWAYS been the one to instigate contact and get-togethers. But, despite the promise to “do better”, it’s still the same. Radio silence. No change at all. Each time I learn that DS, DIL & DGD have visited a family member and I’ve still had no contact from them whatsoever, it breaks my heart. It also sends my MH spiralling down into a dark hole. I truly feel that no-one (other than my amazing partner) would miss me, or even notice that I’d gone.

I really would welcome guidance on how to approach this. I don’t want to force my company onto my DS & DIL, plus my MH problems mean I’m probably not the most sparkling/interesting company anyway. I also can’t talk to him (or anyone) about just how poor my MH is; I find it impossible to talk about it without breaking down (and my parents simply don’t “do” crying). A good friend (who knows about my MH issues, but perhaps doesn’t appreciate how bad things have been) suggested that I hold my nerve and wait for them to contact me…..but I’m terrified that this is the wrong approach and the already shaky bridges will be burned for ever.

Apologies for this being too long and a bit rambly, it’s a total ‘brain-dump’ if I’m honest. There’s so much background and I didn’t want to drip-feed (although I inevitably have).

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 09:48

I really wouldn't go down the route of ignoring your son in the hope he'll come round. I'd keep it casual, but send messages every now and then. No , I definitely think this is a risky plan and not a risk I'm prepared to take.

It wouldn't harm if you sent him a message now asking him and his family to visit over Christmas (offer a few dates) and if he says no, say, "Come on, you've never visited my house and I really miss you. Please can you find a date when we're both free? I would love to see you." Good message! I may use that, many thanks x

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 10:01

@springydaff Thank you for being so kind. I hope my posts haven't brought back any nasty memories for you.

Ime of similar struggles and longstanding trauma, my very first port of call was long term therapy. Can you afford it? Unfortunately, no, I really can't afford it. The last time I accessed therapy, I was living in a different NHS Trust area, where wait times were long and the number of sessions (when I finally got to the top of the wait list) were very low (maximum of 6 I think).

I'm now living in a different Trust area, things may be better/different. I think I really need to bite the bullet and speak to the GP to get things rolling. I know that my MH isn't going to get better by itself.

I'd like to wrap you in a blanket. That sounds lovely, you're very kind. I've mentioned it before, but I was always taught to be strong, independent, iron clad....I can't ever remember as a child being told that I was loved...and I never ever remember going to either of my parents for comfort. Not as a child or as an adult. As have most people, I've gone through relationship break-downs (including a divorce), very stressful work situations, complicated life situations, debt problems, serious illnesses, etc, and I have never once confided in my parents or asked for/expected any kind of support. In fact, when I split from my ex husband, my parents didn't even know until after we'd split. And even then, I only told them because they had to know.

That's just the way our 'relationship' is, sadly.

Btw I have similar issues with food and also find OA priceless I've looked at OA in the past, but there are no meets local to where I live, sadly. Mind you, that was a couple of years ago, maybe they have more meets now.....I'll have a look!

I've also found ACOA a great help in the past Many thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely explore that.

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 10:14

@AttilaTheMeerkat You are mired in FOG and this is not altogether surprising after all you have been through to date. You're right; I really don't enjoy spending time with my parents. I visit because I feel I ought to, because I don't want people to think badly of me, because other people visit (and love) their parents...why don't I? My dad isn't in the best of health, so there's always that "what if he dies?" question whizzing round my head. Will I feel guilty if I've not visited him and he dies? Will other people judge me for not having seen him? I think I worry way too much about what other people think, TBH.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and yours appears to be one of scapegoat for all their inherent ills Absolutely no-one who knows them would call my family "dysfunctional", but I agree with you that - at it's heart - the family was dysfunctional. At the time, I kind of just accepted that my childhood was the same as everyone else's, nothing special but not horrific. The counselling I had made me re-evaluate that and I felt differently about my childhood from then on. But, I did wonder if the counselling had sort of warped my mind. Hard to explain, but I felt more unsettled and unhappy after the counselling.

Anyway, my younger brother and I had a heart-to-heart shortly before he died, and he told me that he felt exactly the same way as I did about our childhood. So it must have been pretty neglectful.

NAPAC are certainly worth contacting here and I have provided a link for you napac.org.uk/ Thank you so much for the link. I have a lot of exploring to do, but I know it'll be worth doing.

You may also want to read and or post on the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages. I have tried to read those posts a number of times, but they get a bit too painful. Also, I feel a bit of a fraud when I see what other people have been through. My experiences pale into insignificance!

Thanks you for all of your support and advice, it's very much appreciated

OP posts:
springydaff · 22/11/2019 10:54

My family look like the most sparkling, spangling, kind and warm group. Except they have a scapegoat - that'll be me. They have not the first idea they do/have done it; it is a (diabolical) psychological device they, collectively, use to manage the inherent family dysfunction. I used to maintain it too, we all knew no different, but the pain got too much and I did my own exploring re therapy and the whole revolting thing came to light. I'm still regarded as the fly in the ointment, the spanner in the works, the pain in the arse - on a good day. They have no idea it's not me, it's them.

I've done all my grieving about that - that's a process and you have to go through that and, hopefully, come out the other side. It takes time. Ime of therapy I cobbled together therapy from a succession of charities over time. A lot of it wasn't that good but I learned from that too. I've done a lot of reading, been to a lot of support groups. The counseling offered by the NHS was more harm than good ime but, to be blunt, you have very specific trauma re the sexual abuse and grooming, so you may well get a fast track into the good stuff, the good quality long standing therapy rarely offered on the NHS.

That's aside from the family scapegoating which is its own entire thing, often causing deep trauma - but not necessarily recognised on the NHS! I have found 12-step re OA addresses a lot of the generalised trauma. Like you, I find the stately homes thread too triggering for me.

springydaff · 22/11/2019 14:54

You could also try BACP for a list of private therapists in your area; then contact those you like the look of and ask if they do a sliding fee scale ie cut price. Many do and are not at all offended to be asked.

But I'd try the NHS first + or at the sadness time-ish to see what comes up. You'd have to be specific about your history though Flowers

springydaff · 22/11/2019 14:54

At the same time!

Chamomileteaplease · 22/11/2019 15:38

I would remember that however you approach things with your son doesn't have to be the same way you approach things with your parents.

Have you asked yourself why you want to have a relationship with your parents? Is it because you think that one day they will magically turn into nice, kind, supportive people? Or are they a gateway to other relations?

With regard to your son, I think this all sounds very sad. This might be a horrible question but when you meet up with him do you think he enjoys your company?

I would keep trying to meet up with him and his wife and daughter. Invite them over. Offer to babysit again, preferably while the little one is awake too! And if possible, at an opportune moment, ask him why he seems to like visiting his grandparents more than he likes visiting you.

Your parents sound horrible so it is hard for us to understand why your son chooses to visit them when you sound lovely Flowers.

HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 16:01

@SunsetBoulevard3

Thank you for the hugs :-) they're always very welcome!

Sounds like it’s too late where your parents are concerned Absolutely, I completely agree with this. Our relationship is cordial, friendly but cool and distant. And I'm happy for it to remain that way, to be honest. I don't enjoy their company, and I'm not sure they enjoy mine either!

Can you afford to pay for therapy yourself? NHS waiting lists are very long Sadly, private therapy is way out of my reach. But I will definitely take the first step to getting NHS counselling.

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 16:05

@mindfulmam

I agree that it sounds as if you've tried hard to hold it all together I think this is key to my MH problems. I've always been told I need to be strong, independent, tough, resilient. That's all well and good but
I think I've kept a lid on things too well and for too long and now the lid keeps bursting off.

I love the wording of this I'd like to see more of you from now on, on a regular basis - would this be ok? I'd like to have been more if a part of things in the past but didn't always feel up to it if I was feeling a bit low or stressed I'm definitely going to use this when I'm communicating with DS, thank you

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 16:09

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation....

Thank you for your support. I definitely won't be telling my son the circumstances of his conception. He really doesn't need to know that. It would also be difficult to tell him I had a shit childhood. - he loves his grandparents (even though he acknowledges that they're both 'difficult' people).

Rather than say "Would you all like to come for tea" maybe "I'm out your way this weekend, shall I pop in for a cuppa?" This very thing has actually got me in trouble! Apparently, when I say "I'm in your area" I make DS feel like they're an afterthought....

I can't win really, can I? LOL!

OP posts:
springydaff · 22/11/2019 16:11

Sorry to flood the thread but ime my kids were influenced by the family culture towards me and gravitated to the so-called sparkling and spangling family. It was just easier for them.

Just as your family have very probably influenced your son in micro, imperceptible ways, I think scapegoats, trained from dot to conform to the scapegoat role, can support the scapegoat view of us in micro, imperceptible ways. This is where therapy comes in: we unearth and shine a bright light on the toxic dynamic pumping away under the surface; examine it, and find it to be unacceptable, heinous. But it takes a while to undo all that conditioning, much less challenge it.

I don't think you need to worry about whether you're good company - love is blind to good company: if you love someone you don't notice whether they're good or bad company (within reason!). I think he does love you but he's been influenced by the family culture and, of course, his partner. She may be oblivious to the family culture and not at all invested in it as we are, and may gravitate towards the easiness of a 'big' family, a collection of people who hang together - and from which you are routinely excluded. Through no fault of your own, it's what they do.

springydaff · 22/11/2019 16:14

Definitely don't tell your parents how you really feel! Pissing in the wind comes to mind...

HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 16:17

@springydaff....hugs and Flowers back to you, families can be shit, can't they?

I've read other posts about people being family scapegoats, and I never really felt that it was similar to my experience. But, now that I think more about it, I guess it does to some extent.

I'm more in the 'good girl gone bad / black sheep' mould.....painfully shy, well behaved, always stuck to the rules, never got into trouble, high achiever at school and in sport, then went completely off the rails for no apparent reason (well, no reason that my parents knew about anyway) and got pregnant, ending my dreams of a big career and success in life.

And my car-crash of a life since then has done nothing to change their opinion of me!

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 16:18

By the way, apologies for the random replies...I've been in and out of work meetings all day!

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 16:25

@Chamomileteaplease

Have you asked yourself why you want to have a relationship with your parents? To be honest, I think it's more the thought of people thinking bad of me if I didn't. Is it because you think that one day they will magically turn into nice, kind, supportive people? Erm, nope! Or are they a gateway to other relations? If I went NC with my parents, I would definitely lose touch with my brother, but we have so little to do with each other that it wouldn't be a massive loss.

With regard to your son, I think this all sounds very sad. This might be a horrible question but when you meet up with him do you think he enjoys your company? I'm not sure, TBH. My MH has been so poor lately, and I have such a negative opinion of my self-worth, that I can't see why anyone would enjoy my company. He says he does enjoy my company, but I feel like a complete dullard most of the time, it's like my normal personality has abandoned me as well Grin

Your parents sound horrible so it is hard for us to understand why your son chooses to visit them when you sound lovely Thank you! I think there's an element of FOG with my DS visiting them too. He's alluded to that in past conversations with me....e.g. "I've not seen granny and grandpa for three weeks, I really should go this week" etc

OP posts:
HornsOfADilemma01 · 22/11/2019 16:27

@springydaff Definitely don't tell your parents how you really feel! Pissing in the wind comes to mind... LOL, no, I've tried that once before after my father had been particularly rude, insulting and spiteful to my exH. My father improved for...oooh, about a week, then reverted to type. Won't bother doing that again!

OP posts:
SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 28/11/2019 00:05

Sounds like we should form a club for scapegoats. I feel like I'm the black sheep 🐑 of the family. Mainly for being the fattest 🙄. I am the only person in the family to go to university and do stuff in my life, so you would think it wouldn't be so, but families are very strange...

fit4more · 28/11/2019 07:46

I think you should have counselling but I also think you should explain to your son about the sexual abuse. It’s a huge part of who you are surely? It was an awful thing that has happened to you and why should you have to shoulder that alone. You could be honest and say to him “I suffer with poor mental health and really would love to see you more as my relationship with you is so important to me. I was sexually abused from the age of 12. I’m having counselling but I really need my family” isn’t the advice about poor mental health to be honest with your loved ones and also how can he ever possibly know you truly unless he knows about that massive part of what happened to you. He’s an adult not a child and this is something you should be able to talk to him about. My mother tells me every single thing that ever happened to her! It’s sometimes hard to hear but it does mean I know her and can understand and be kind when I feel she’s being difficult

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