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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

So Is Counselling Making Any Difference?

41 replies

Plurabelle · 20/11/2019 10:51

A few months back, I told my husband that I felt we needed help from Relate.

Though we've been together for sometime - ups and downs, but okay a lot of the time - our relationship began to unravel when he retired. I think I'd wanted him to become more helpful around the house and more emotionally available. (He'd been doing a demanding job, while I'd been doing bits and pieces of work to fit in while caring for children and an elderly father in law.) I also felt that his retirement would free me to do more paid work, with the family essentially grown up and gone.

But my husband had been so focused on his own needs and wishes - wanting to reinvent himself as a businessman in a hobby business based in our house with me providing admin/IT/marketing support- that he simply assumed things would carry on as normal with my enabling him to do what he wanted to do, and me fitting myself in around the edges. He'd cook meals - to 'do his share' - but expect me to tell him what to cook and what to get from the shops and how to deal with any queries while assembling the food, and then forget to put half the things on the table.

I felt that I'd spend a certain amount of time talking to him about the kinds of changes I'd like and what I needed, and he would say, 'Oh yes, I'll do that'. And he'd spend a few days being more attentive, and then would go back to being his old self.

The counsellor has been quite astute though we've not had that many joint sessions - three joint ones, and a couple of individual ones. She has pinpointed that while he does care about me, his upbringing has made him very self-sufficient. He just charges around trying to get as much done as he possibly can and this leads to my feeling not listened to. (He sort of listens to me, but only half and resolves to make operational improvements, but these resolutions slide as soon as he gets distracted by something he's interested in.)

What he has been unhappy about is the lack of sex -which constitutes emotional intimacy. The combination of menopause and his self-absorption means that while I can still find him an interesting companion at times, I don't really want to open myself up to him because it's then very wounding when he just charges off and forgets everything I've said and thinks that emotional intimacy can be achieved by having a quick shag even though he's otherwise pretty unaware of what's going on with me.

Anyway we've had a couple of weeks where he's tried really hard. He's been attempting a kind of low-level intimacy - hand-holding etc. He's tried hard to remember what I've been doing and to ask me about it. When he's asked me questions he's mainly listened to the answers, rather than just drifting off to his own thoughts or interrupting. But somehow it's always my fault. I've not made things sufficiently clear in some way, and that's why he's misunderstood/'got hold of the wrong end of the stick.'

Almost I was beginning to feel he could change. But then one or two things - nothing urgent or crucial - means that things to do with his hobby business (which he's meant to be winding down) have taken a bit more of his attention. And suddenly we're back to square one. He's asking me the odd question, but forgetting everything I said.

On a day when I was really busy and tired and hungry and had been out at work I came home and, he presented me with a very small baked potato and asked me for advice on fillings and forgot to make any salad and wanted to know what to do for dressing because we were out of one kind of vinegar. (We have four other kinds in the cupboard.)

I tried to keep my cool. (One of the things is that is hard is that if I get angry or upset he gets very defensive and that makes everything worse.) I got up and made us some dessert because I was still hungry. We discussed what we'd do later on. He wanted to watch the Johnson/Corbyn debate. Because I was so tired and thought it would be depressing and predictable I said no I couldn't face it and I suggested Masterchef on the other channel. If he wanted to watch the debate, I'd see Masterchef on the iPad. He said, 'Well it doesn't matter that much really' or something along those lines. And then we had a long conversation agreeing about how the predictability of Masterchef is enjoyable, so it seemed he was happy to watch that. I wanted us to do something relaxing together after a day when he had been charging about. The meal hadn't been that relaxing or enjoyable

So just before 8 I switched the TV on, wandered off for a minute and found he'd changed the channel. 'But we're watching Masterchef, we agreed' I said.' But he - who didn't seem to have been listening at supper said he thought I'd come to watch Johnson and Corbyn with him.

I am sorry this such a very long posting. But I do feel that going to see the counsellor was my final throw of the dice. And it now seems to me that he is what he is. I can try and behave in a civilised way to him. I can try not to be destructively angry towards him. But the way in which he behaves frustrates me and this means that I retreat from him emotionally.

I have posted on AIBU in the past but people there have often been quite vicious, though others have said insightful things. I thought I would try here and see if the response was bit more considered. Really I'm trying to work things out in my head before the next counselling session. (She cancelled yesterday - presumably she's unwell or there are family problems.)

OP posts:
Plurabelle · 20/11/2019 14:07

I think the phrase my husband used with the business was, 'I can't do it without you.' And the fact that it was based at home - our house is not a mansion and goods and materials need to be stored somewhere. - meant it inevitably impacted on me. The impact was all the greater that given that some of my own freelance work is done from home. If he had rented an office space and budgeted to generate enough income to pay the rent on this, I think matters would have gone rather differently. (Again at the time reducing the overheads by basing the venture at home, had seemed a reasonable decision.)

OP posts:
12345kbm · 20/11/2019 14:47

He's about to 'embark on a new venture' - sit down and communicate with him how you feel about the 'new venture' before he starts the 'new venture'. Have a discussion about how it will affect you, your relationship and how you're not prepared to assist because you want to up your working hours.

Ask him how he plans to up his housework contribution and support you like you supported him before he retired. What are his suggestions? He now has the majority of housework because he's retired and you're upping your hours. How is he going to fit that in while starting his 'new venture'? Because you're not going to assist him further. You also don't want his 'new venture' to disrupt your home life so how is he going to minimise that?

Communicate OP, don't just wave your limp wrists around and simmer in resentment.

Plurabelle · 20/11/2019 16:09

I think once again I may have been unwise in encouraging him. The new venture is a PhD. The positives are that this is more suited to his strengths and the fact there will be supervision means his tendency to be rather wayward and impulsive will be kept in check.

I suppose that given he has always had what my daughter refers to as 'some crazy scheme or other' it was a matter of one that was less crazy/more sensible than the alternatives.

But yes, there need to be further conversations. The PhD won't start till the spring.

OP posts:
12345kbm · 20/11/2019 16:49

I'm assuming it's a part time Phd, as a full time one could take the same amount of time per week as a full time job...

KristinaM · 20/11/2019 16:59

So who will have to pick up his share of the domestic tasks while he does his PhD?

Will this be another project of his that you will have to work on - another thing he can’t do without you doing all the grunt work?

Will you be helping with his literature review, checking his stats, proof reading and rewriting ?

Plurabelle · 20/11/2019 17:01

He's planning to do it in three years, having already covered quite a lot of the preliminary ground.

One of the difficulties over the last few years was the amount of interests/obsessions.

  • The business
  • The new linked interest which forms the basis of his research.
  • Learning a foreign language (at one point up to three groups a week). At another point he went abroad to study this intensively.
  • U3A activities - several groups, though only one is attended on a regular basis
  • Family activities. Our daughter at first sixth form, then university. His elderly father - physically and mentally frail.
  • Various forms of exercise. Gym membership and a weekly class.
  • Working on an allotment owned by his son. (Our own garden where he'd planted things went to rack and ruin during this period.)

Not all these interests were going on at the same time, but there were usually a bunch of them.

So boring housework, DIY and supporting me have never exactly been at the top of the agenda.

OP posts:
KristinaM · 20/11/2019 17:11

Well I can see why he needs a full time housekeeper / PA.

It’s up to you if you want to go on doing this until you drop dead.

12345kbm · 20/11/2019 17:31

A full time Phd will take around 40-50 hours a week OP, even if he's done a lot of the 'preliminary work'. It's the equivalent to a full time job.

Loopytiles · 20/11/2019 17:37

For a start, do NO work for his hobby job.

Given your finances and wishes, I’d seek a job!

If you split up, you might be able to get a decent share of his pension and joint assets.

Loopytiles · 20/11/2019 17:38

Or his phd.

Plurabelle · 20/11/2019 17:46

Yes, I'm doing some hard thinking!

As well as looking back on all the past interests and obsessions. At one point it was two exercise classes a week, plus socials relating to the sports activity.

OP posts:
Loopytiles · 20/11/2019 17:49

He is clearly entrenched in his behaviours, seems unlikely this will change much.

I guess it’s whether you prefer the relationship, as it is, to being single.

If you want the relationship, but are no longer sexually attracted to him and don’t want sex with him, it’d be fairest to be honest so he can decide what he would like to do.

Plurabelle · 20/11/2019 18:08

Yes. He's older than I am - 70. Though plenty of 70 year olds seem to fancy their chances when it comes to forming new relationships, I gather.

OP posts:
Countryescape · 20/11/2019 18:12

Say no to the PHD. Why is he even contemplating it? He can’t cope now! Tell him NO!! That you are no longer working on his business, that your marriage is not in a good place and that it might be the end of you two. Because it probably will be.

Plurabelle · 20/11/2019 18:21

I think he's free to choose the PhD - provided he realises what I'm expecting from him - in terms of contributing to looking after the house, and garden and the fact I won't be carrying him/looking after him.

I can't say 'Don't do something you want to do.' What I can do is think about what I want to do - which probably won't involve him very much.

OP posts:
averythinline · 21/11/2019 15:56

You may not say he can't do phd but you do need to say to him how is it going to work on a practical level and plan ahead ... you do seem too ok think the change should be all one way in communication styles...
Lots of crazy schemes are fine if all happy to work round thatwhich you have for years ... now you're not which is ok .... but you need to be clearer about what you expect as it's different

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