Is this narcissistic behaviour? My mum

[Countryescape]

Don’t get me wrong my mother can be lovely. She can be generous and kind and loves looking after her grand kids but just when you think everything is great she puts a sly boot in. It’s hard to explain but I’ll give examples and please let me know what you think:

Gives her colleagues the impression that her and I are ultra close. In reality we do absolutely nothing together but she does look after my children once a week.(not my choice but since I put my foot down once she never contacted me again and got the major pip).

She’ll give a compliment but it’s always back handed/followed up with a thinly veiled insult. eg “congratulations darling on your marriage but you’ll have to make sure you keep him interested.”

Any time I show vulnerability and she helps at the time, she’ll use it against me down the track.

Specific examples:
“You are so attractive it’s such a pity about your weight”. (I’m a size 12but she wishes I was a 8.)

You’ve put me through so much, much more than any of my friends children have.

Any time I have tried to talk to her about our relationship all I get is “it’s a pity you can’t choose your family”, “I did my best “ followed by crying, then vicious comments about how I am too sensitive, being ridiculous etc. etc.

We live 10 minutes from each other but do nothing together. We don’t do coffee, go to the movies, go for walks, go shopping, go to concerts together. Nothing.

What do you all think?

And you have contact with her, why?!

Why do you allow your children to have a relationship with her when she’s so toxic?

My mum died in March. She was just like this and worse and I wish I had cut contact years and years ago. Instead I let her stay in my life and let her have a relationship with my dd who is now grieving because she only saw the good side of my Mum. It’s made things very complicated.

Toxic people should be removed from your life. Blood relations or not.

I think if you want to go out for coffee or the movies, you should ask her?

It sounds as though you can be quite critical too and that it hurts her feelings? Maybe you are both sensitive people.

I don’t like labels and it’s impossible to say whether your mum is a narcissist without proper assessment, but she certainly appears to have traits. The difficult part for you is having to accept that your mum isn’t the mum you hoped for and is likely never to be. Keeping contact short and sweet and realising that what she says to you is all about her own issues rather than fact is very important. There are lots of books on the subject of narcissistic mothers. Take care of yourself op.

My Mum is just like this. Don't bother trying to change her because she cannot change; and most importantly WON'T change!
Narcissists by definition are unable to see they're in the wrong, so despite what you say - you will be wrong and she will be right.

check out the website outofthefog.com and see if anything resonates.

She does sound pretty awful

Countryescape

A good rule of thumb here is that if a relative is too toxic/difficult/batshit for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your kids too.

I would also read and or post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages; you will find further support there too. Reading "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward could help you also. Your mother has come out with all the usual stuff such toxic parents say to their now adult children.

Where are your boundaries at with regards to your mother?. It may well be that boundaries are very hard to have in place mainly because your mother has never really encouraged you to have any.
You need to examine why you put up with this from your mother when in all likelihood you would not tolerate this from a friend. Presumably your own FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) keeps your children within range of your mother. She looking after them one time a week is one time too many. This is a bear trap that many now adult children of such toxic parents fall into (they often hope against their own experience to the contrary that the parent will behave better with their own children). She is still harming and failing you and will harm them in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have yourself been harmed.

@Notsurehowtofixit I’m not sure if I’m critical. It’s more just that I’m trying to talk about our relationship constructively, and her automatic default is to cry and guilt me into apologising for a perceived wrong doing

My mother is very similar. I try to let her comments wash over me as much as I can because I know they are her issues.

You have my sympathies. I'd love to be close to my mother, like my sister is, but she isn't a very nice person at times.

@TellySavalashairbrush I think you’re right. I’m mourning in a way for the mother I wanted but didn’t have. And every time I might need support, I hope she might pull through for me. But she always lets me down.

Its not you countryescape, its your mother. Being too "sensitive" is often used by people like your toxic mother at their unfortunate now adult offspring. There really is no reasoning with someone like your mother because the only opinion she cares for is her own. She will not apologise and will not accept any responsibility for her actions. She is disordered of thinking and its not your fault she is the ways she is. You did NOT make her that way but she certainly is using you as a scapegoat for all her inherent ills.

What was your home life like when you were growing up?. My guess it was pretty crap overall with the occasional bout of niceness. You do not mention your at all dad here; where is he?.

Why is she caring for your kids once a week if it is not your choice?
Whose choice is it then?

Clue: just yours. Stop the arrangement. If she is critical to you, she will do the same to them. Protect your kids.

You will need to continue to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. She is not and will never be the nice kindly soul you perhaps still want her to be and she will never give you her approval, approval you probably still seek and want from her too.

@AttilaTheMeerkat that’s interesting you recognised what my mum has said to me as stuff that comes up in that book. I haven’t read it myself but maybe I will. I guess you are right about FOG too. My Mum would be devastated if she couldn’t see my kids. But weirdly she is so much nicer to them than she was to me as a child. Some of the things they have done, she just brushes off and laughs about. I distinctly remember an occasion where I ate something she didn’t approve off (she is very weight conscious) and she went absolutely ballistic then didn’t speak to me for 3 days. I was 9 years old!!! I just could never treat my daughter the way she treated me. Yet I think she honestly believes she was a near perfect mother.

@Hithere2 oh I meant not my choice in terms of how we never do anything together anymore/our relationship not being great. My kids adore her and she is really lovely to them. I’m still baffled why she couldn’t be nice to me like that when I was young and she still treats me badly really.

Any time I show vulnerability and she helps at the time, she’ll use it against me down the track.

I shuddered when I read this, OP. My mother did this all the time, and she is a narc. Makes you feel that you can’t trust the people closest to you.

I’d say that your mother certainly has many narc features. I think that you are correct to keep your distance. Your mother probably tells people that you and she are close because it fits with her self-image: beloved mother courage.

You have to stand up to her. She’ll never change, but you can change the way you deal with her.

Mine would make spiteful remarks about my appearance, just at the times (as a young woman) when I felt least confident. My mother was very, very attractive when she was younger, but when she had me she started to put weight on and felt less attractive. She was on barmy diets and binges for years, never losing weight. I think that’s why she would have a go at me: it was her self-loathing coming out. There was nothing wrong with the way I looked: I was a tall, slim, pretty teenager. You’re a size 12, which is slim too. It’s nothing to do with your appearance. It’s her.

I started to break away aged 32. It took years. I wish that I’d done it sooner. I have made my peace with it now: I see her at specific times, I never spend Christmas with them and I never go away anywhere with them. When she steps out of line, I tell her and I ignore the tears. It has made our relationship better. Good luck.

I hate this type of behaviour from anyone, but it must be devastating that your own mother is pulling you down and undermining your confidence. She sounds toxic. A mother isn't a perfect being and she is allowed to give constructive honest criticism, but this is far outweighed by positive comments and genuine love.

I am not in contact with mine at the moment which really hurts. But I can't face the criticism and put downs. I will say no contact is very very hard and eats me up everyday so minimal contact (grey rock) is probably the best option. I can't talk to mind about anything without it being used against me again so I didn't talk properly for years and then I got shouted out for not talking to them. My brother stirred a lot of trouble too for me so now I have none of them in my life which is awful really.

@Iamthewombat that is exactly how I feel. The closeness thing came up because one of her workmates rang me to ask how she was getting on overseas (away on a trip) and that I must be missing her terribly. I replied that I hadn’t heard from her and was I was just cruising as normal. Her colleague was very obviously taken aback and seemed shocked I’d said this. She said “but you’re so close, you must be missing her?” Ummm no. We barely ever see each other.

Have you considered that she’s being nice to your dc knowing full well that you know she wasn’t like that to you... ? It’s another form of control and manipulation.

I am most shocked by her not speaking to you for three days WHEN YOU WERE NINE YEARS OLD because she didn’t approve of something you ate!

Seriously: congratulations on not having an eating disorder. You must be a level-headed woman.

@Iamthewombat I know it sounds so fu**kd up now I write it down but that’s just how she was. I did have an eating disorder in my early 20s but not anymore. I remember it was a double scoop ice cream from the dairy. Oh the sin of that! 😱😂

How old are your kids?
Do they even challenge her or just plain adore her?
What would happen if they do something she doesn't like?

Listen, you know how toxic your mother is.
You know she will do the same to them.
She is manipulative and uses people for her own purposes.

She doesn't deserve a relationship with your kids. They haven't seen the real person, only a fake one that you don't know how long it will last.
It is easier to prevent the damage she will create rather than fixing it. Words hurt more than actions.

If she is devastated by not having your kids once a week, it is her problem. She should have been a better mother.

Protect your kids.

@Fairylea no I hadn’t thought about it but I am now! I guess maybe a narcissist knows no bounds?

Your mother is using your kids as narc supply.

You are super deep in the FOG.

Has your mother retaliated for outing her to her co-worker (not missing her)? Your mother has a great fake facade setup for her advantage and if you try to break it she will go into narc rage

Have you considered therapy to grieve the mother you wanted to have vs the one you have?

@Hithere2 they are 7 and 4. So just adore her and not much of a challenge. I’ve so far seen no worrying behaviour from her towards them. I think it’s probably more that she might treat me badly and they’ll be there. But I don’t think she’d risk doing that as it might hurt their image of her.