DIVORCE - any advice?

[Dixie]

I really can't go into the whole thing just now but my marriage has broken up very recently and there is NO way it can be repaired so divorce is the next step...I have loads of questions and will probably be back again in a few days with another list but in the mean time can anyone assist with the following?

What should I do 1st?

Do I have to wait 2 years?

How do I have to prove the grounds for divorce?

I'm dreading the cost but know it will be expensive how much are we looking at?

financial help from soon to be ex-husband what is taken into account?

what about later down the line if he goes onto a new relationship & has future children - how will my children be affected?

How is acess to children worked out?
(Does age become an issue, ie my 2nd child is only weeks old so I don't really want to be parted from him?)

Acess again...how do supervised visits work?
(My soon to be ex is truly no threat to the children but I really can not believe what he says and can not emotionally stand for him to say he's taking them somewhere & he he takes them somewhere different - I'll explain that more when I'm not so emotionally drained but please bear with me - I really need to know about supervised visits as quickly as poss...do I supervise or is it down to a family relative because how can I be sure they will enforce it and not just lie & say they were with them?)

I'm so scared & not ready for all this but it really has to be done...
hoping you can help & don't mind talking about what must have been horrid experiences for you.

hi dixie.

have not been through it but would say first thing to do is see a solicitor who will be able to advise you on the rest. if you're concerned about the cost i would go to the citizens' advice bureau as a starting point.

sorry to hear it has come to this. well done for bearing up so well. i'm sure people will be able to come back to you with better and more specific advice.

hang in there.

Hi Dixie,
I'm sorry about the rubbish time you've been having lately and hope someone will be able to help you out with some of this. I was on holiday when you first posted about your h leaving and didn't ever catch up with you to say how very sorry I am. Well done for being brave enough to post and taking steps to sort things out. I really admire you for that.

My suggestion would be to consult a lawyer regarding the legal practicalities and perhaps ask for a referral to a mediator to work out access if you can bear to be in the same room as your ex. FWIW I don't think you can insist on supervised visits unless a court orders this and they probably wouldn't unless your husband posed some kind of threat to the children but again you should check this out with a lawyer.

Take care Dixie. x

Dixie- poor you . Although I myself haven't been through it my partner has. I know at the moment you probably think all men are B* but actually his ex was and not him. Anyway he had little money and went to a solicitor which offered legal aid meaning they paid a large proportion of the legal costs. so I would say;

• Get legal aid with a solicitor

• Usually this 2 year thing is for it to be finalised. I was unsure on this as dh was unwilling to be clear on it so ask solicitor

• Yes you do have to have a reason to get divorced but unconsolable differences will usually suffice

• financial support is down to how much your husband earns, he will have to prove earnings and savings including any property

• As far as future relationships and children things are worked out in the present so make sure you get a good deal. Luckily for my dh no children were involved (just cats!!) and we get them when his ex has to go away (on a lighter note) quite funny really.

As I say this is just what I saw happen so please get some proper advice, look into legal aid and try to get a recommendation as far as solicitors go, get one who deals in these things.

Good luck you are very brave, stand up for yourself and your children, you're worth it!

If you file for divorce and he contests it then it will take as long as it takes to go through the courts to hear the contest. It's rare that contesting a divorce is successful. If neither of you wants to be listed as the cause of the divorce (ie the person who behaved unreasonably or was the adulterer), then you can separate for 2 years and then the divorce is granted on the grounds of separation and no one has to prove anything about the other. Generally child support is a separate matter than the actual divorce. The current csa rules allow for him to pay you (for the children) a flat percentage of his income regardless of what his actual expenses are (ie how many new children he has). I think your income is taken into account in this calculation. But you should call the csa and they will give you a very good idea on the telephone of what you might be able to expect financially.
Although I went through a pretty nasty divorce with my first husband, we didn't have children together, so I can't really give too much advice on that level. However, my current husband has 3 children from previous relationships (not married) and I do know that it is imperative for the children that the parents put aside their anger with each other when dealing with the children. I can't imagine a worse time for you to be going through a divorce (i couldn't even handle deciding which tv channel to watch 2 weeks after my son was born), but it is important that you allow your soon to be ex plenty of access to the children. Unless you truly think that he could harm the children, it will be the best thing for both them and you for you to let him see them unsupervised on his own territory. It doesn't matter that he says he is doing one thing and does another. That is an issue of the marriage which you will no longer have to put up with yourself. If he isn't endangering the children, it shouldn't be a issue of parenting. If he ends up disappointing them by promising things that don't happen, they will realize it soon enough on their own and it can only hurt them for you to point it out to them. Having said that, no one would expect a 2 week old child to spend anything more than an hour or two (especially if you are bfing) away from it's mother. In the uk children generally remain living with the mother and the father is given visitation every other weekend and half holidays. They don't usually start asking the child's opinion until they are 8 or 9 years old.
Having said all of that, I found that the most important part of emotionally recovering from a divorce is to let go of the emotional grievances you have with your ex. What he wouldn't give you emotionally during the marriage is certainly not going to be forthcoming during the divorce, so don't spend too much energy waiting for it to happen. In my case, my ex never acknowledged my contribution (during our 10 years together) to his very successful career. It wasn't until I finally realized that he was never going to agree that I had had anything to do with his success that I was able to move on emotionally with my life.
I can give you the name of a Very Good, but Very Expensive london divorce lawyer if you find you need one. But if money is an issue, you should probably try mediation first as suggested above. Good luck and try to keep your spirits up. I'm sure this is not an easy time.

Dixie, how awful. I too have been divorced. we did not have children which is a whole different ball game but it was still devestating.
Lots of good advice here but can I add one thing? It is a myth that divorce is ALWAYS very costly. We got divorced with NO use of lawyers whatsoever because we sat down and worked out our financial agreement. We did not necessarily agree on everything at first but we realised it we did not sort it out ourselves then the courts would decide, it would cost money and we would both be less well off as a result. Perhaps you could convey something of this to your husband?
If things are really hostile this may not be possible.
As far as I am aware you do need to have some kind of legal agreement drawn up if kids are involved ( someone correct me if I am wrong here) BUT as has been mentioned on other threads,ask the citizens advice bureau about mediation services ( see Mears recent post on the "I would like to lose weight/ see my toes "thread)which act to sort out this kind of thing with the details then presentes as a fait accompli to the courts, which cuts out a huge amount of legal stuff.
Will your husband contest the divorce? Are you agreed on who will have custody of the children?

What a terrible and sad situation Dixie. And I think your husband has behaved abominably in walking away from you when you are so vulnerable. First of all, you must get a solicitor. The Family Law Association (will try to track down a number later or you can just call directory inquiries) can recommend a solicitor in your area who is a member, and they are experienced in Family Law and also in mediation etc. They may also be able to advise you on legal aid etc. If you don't earn (which, with a two-week old baby, I don't suppose you do, I'm pretty sure you will qualify for legal aid). The fact that your husband has left you is grounds enough for divorce (unreasonable behaviour etc etc) so you don't have to wait two years. YOu can call the CSA direct (again, Child Support Agency, number from Directory Inquiries) and they will be able to calculate the minimum amount of support your husband will legally have to give you almost instantly and tell you over the phone. But as you are married the courts will have quite a lot of discretion as to how to split your joint assets, eg your home, his pension etc. Also, as you are married you have a lot more entitlement to financial support for yourself. Courts today prefer to have 'clean break' divorces - ie a lump sum and property settlement, money for the children but no continuing financial relationship between ex-partners. However, as you have such young children, you could well be entitled to support for yourself too. And you will almost certainly get to stay living in your home, and your husband may well have to give you a lump sum or give up his share of the equity in your home. That will be decided either between you with the advice of your solicitors or by the court. The current name of what used to be called access is 'contact', and that is usually, as SofiaAmes said, every other weekend and half the holidays. However, with a young baby it will be much less, particularly if you are breastfeeding. Probably no more than a hour or so at first, and he may have to come to you for the contact. Your children will obviously continue to have their main home with you, probably forever, unless they decide differently when they are much older - over 12 (which sounds most unlikely in your case). Supervised contact is only given where there is risk to the child, normally. I agree with SofiaAmes here, painful though it is, it is usually better for the child if you can put aside your (very justified) anger with your husband and let him get on with contact his way - as long, of course, as it isn't dangerous for your child(ren). Whatever horrible things he did to you, they will soon be in the past. Are you worried he might take them to see a girlfriend? If so, I think this is something you need to discuss with him. Contact isn't set in stone. It can - and often is - modified as the children get older. Either increasing it, as will be likely as a tiny baby gets older, or decreasing it. If he goes into a new relationship and has future children you will still get money towards the keep of your children. Other than that, I'm not sure what you mean. I think this advice is fairly accurate. My ex's partner left him when they had a two-year-old and we have been to court quite a few times, so I know quite a bit about the CSA etc, but they weren't married and the legal position is different. You have more rights as an ex-wife than an ex-partner.

Dixie, I am so sorry. I haven't been through this myself but know so many people who have. You do have ground for divorce - unreasonable behaviour and desertion. With regards to your entitlements, this should include pensions and bonuses if he is in a profession where regular bonuses are expected. As for regular contact, my dh never sees his mother after she left his dad and it's very hard. I hope that you will be able to come to an arrangement that you feel comfortable with. I get the impression from your post that your soon-to-be-ex has done something on a contact visit that has upset you already.

The advice that you have been given here is excellent. I hope that you will be able to take the first steps to sorting things out soon.

Take care x

thanks to all the help so far

the update is that I had discovered back in February (when I was 4 months pregnant) he was e-mailing a woman on the net & it then turned to phone calls (I posted here at the time under a different name of tempname). I confronted him in the March & he told me it was just a friendship, like a mate a work not a big deal. I explianed I still felt it was wrong especially as it had progressed to phonecalls. He told me very sincerely that as it upset me so much he would stop contact with her as it was me he loved & only I and our babies were important so he'd break contact with her as it wasn't an important friendship anyway. We moved on and things got a bit better. Anyhow this week he told me that he had met someone else. I asked him how long it had been going on & he confessed that he had never stopped having contact with this woman...he had lied to me throughout.....I was devesated......but then he added.......and shes pregnant. I was hysterical...my legs buckled under me & I was wretching to throw up...it was awful. I screamed at him & sobbed at him & shouted etc. He said he had only actually 'met up with her' once he had left me (I don't know if I can believe that as it is so obvious he has told me so many lies - but the realitiy is that it doesn't change the situation anyhow does it). I am so terribly hurt and I am constantly looking back at certain dates when he was not around for whole days/nights etc...one of the days that has flagged up is when I came home from hospital with our new baby and we had a major row...the following morning when I got up he & my toddler son were no where to be found & no note...I went out of my mind....I couldn't contact him by phone or anything it was awful. When he did make contact he was very vague & sounded wierd. At the time it was strange enough but now I am wondering constantly if he had spent the day with her...WITH OUR SON! that is why I am so desperate to be sure about supervised visits...I don't want my children around her. I don't want my sons to see Daddy with another woman as it could be so confusing for him. Obviously if this woman & him end up having a proper long term relationship then in the future it will mean my son seeing her & as much as I don't want that I realise it may have to happen....BUT IN THE FUTURE not just now. How can I know that he will go along with my wishes as he has said he'd gone along with other things & has so obviously lied!!

(god I'm in a strong mood tonight!)

PRACTCAL ISSUES AGAIN....many of you have given me wonderful advise but although he will not dispute that I can remain in the house I truly cannot afford the mortage on my own, I rely on his money. I contacted the CSA & he is actually paying me more than they feel he should so if they reduce it I'll never cope. I am not actually entitled to ANY benefits because of my part-time work (my salary is really quite good for the hours I do but just not good enough) I can't afford child care I rely on family but also even if I could afford it it is impossible because my work involves a weird shift pattern (hence the good money)

So I really am in a fix so even if a court ruled I should have all rights to the house I couldn't afford it!

Dixie, I'm so sorry. This sounds awful. My Dh is instigating proceedings atm (we've been separated ages and are friendly) and I have a letter from his solicitor somewhere which lists, step by step, what has to happen in order for us to be divorced. I'll dig it out and post details here tomorrow for you. I think there's a price mentioned too.

Oh and another quick thought before I go to bed Dixie: working families tax credit doesn't take maintenance payments into account when assessing your income. You may therefore be entitled to something there like childcare costs.

oh dixie! what a piece of work your h is. think there's really helpful advice on this thread. your story has really moved me and i'm keeping everything crossed that things get better for you soon. you're doing very well.

all the best.

I'm not entitled to working family tax credit as I only work 14 hours a week, you need to work a minimum of 16 hours. So I was asvised to seek income support to boost my salary...but my salary is too good (but try living on it...and I'm not extravagant either!)

Dixie I am so sorry things have come to this. Both myself and dh have been through divorce, but no children involved. We both did our divorces ourselves and only cost around £150. Can you sell your house and use the equity to put down a deposit on a smaller property?

As you have children I would really suggest talking to CAB or solicitor to save anything having to be taken to court at a later date, better to get everything set out straight off. I saw a solicitor for an hour just to get everything I needed so I didnt lose out but didnt use them any further.

You shouldnt have to wait for 2 years, it will just be as long as it takes to go through, its normally if things are contested it will take ages. I was divorced in 6 months.

Good luck and thinking of you.

What a horrible state of affairs. I'm afraid I know nothing about divorce (not being married), but again on the money issue - they're right that you can only claim working famililes tax credit if you work 16 hours a week, but it is surprisingly generous. So much so that it is worth trying to increase your hours (for the same pay) or find another very low paid job for the other two hours (obviously check with the cab first though). Or could you get a lodger? (female foreign student or something) It's just that it sounds like a house move is absolutely the last thing you need right now. Good luck.

Oh, Dixie, I just don't know what to say. You are doing brilliantly. I hope that you get some good advice from the CAB. I'm sorrier than I can say for what this man has done to you. Keep strong and give your little ones a hug x

Dixie, here are the details from the letter I've received from Dh's solicitor (I'm paraphrasing some of it):

The steps to obtain a divorce are as follows:

1. File at court the Petition and Statement of arrangements for your children. (I haven't seen the petition since the solicitor is preparing it for dh so I assume you will have to see a solicitor and ask them to prepare one for you. The statement of arrangements for children I've got asks for details of where they live, where they will live in the future, any maintenance paid, childcare arrangements, details for contact etc).

2. The court will serve a copy of the divorce petition and the statement of arrangements on the respondent, (i.e, me in our case, your h in yours) 7-14 days after they are lodged at court. They will also serve the respondent with an Acknowledgment of Service form which has to be signed and returned.

3. The court will then send the solicitor a copy of the acknowledgement of service form. Solicitor will then prepare an affadavit which my ex dh will swear confirming the details of the divorce petition and requesting that a decree nisi be pronounced.

4. Once solicitor receives the affadavit she applies for a date for the pronouncment of the decree nisi. There is no need for either party to attend as it is a pure formality and will last about 10 seconds.

5. Six weeks after this the solicitor applies for a decree absolute.

My dh's solicitors (London based) are charging him £350 + VAT for the divorce and an additional £350 +VAT for obtaining the sealed consent order from the court. Dixie, since you need to get your finances etc sorted I really think you should see someone who can tell you what you're entitled to.

I'm so sorry to hear about this latest turn of events. You must be feeling very betrayed and hurt and I completely understand why you don't want this woman to spend time with your son: I wouldn't either in your position. Her pregnancy just adds insult to (already considerable) injury and I'm so sorry. I hope you find a way to get through this. You can email me at [email protected] if you want to talk some more or if you think it would help to talk on the phone. Best of luck, try to be kind to yourself.

I can't add anything here Dixie but to say that my thoughts are with you. I remember when you posted under Tempname and I remember you posting when he had just left you, so I feel kind of emotionally involved. You do not deserve this treatment at all. I truly hope things work out for you, it seems like a difficult time now but the way forward is to keep thinking, this time next year it won't be like this. Things change, opportunities crop up, most of us will say that over the past year things have happened that we never would have expected. So whilst things look bad now, it can all change in a moment.

I think you sound like such a strong-minded, indepedant and brave person, your h obviously never knew what he had. Your kids will grow to admire you and respect you. Best of luck always.
xx

Oh Dixie, I wish we could sit in a room and chat. The last 3 weeks have been awful with my h. I have 2 children, ds is 23 months and dd is 7.5 months. My h is at home while I work, I earn £25k pa so can't get any benefit. I am stuck and I hate him. But, I can't leave because I can't afford it. I can't afford all the bills plus childcare and if he left, he would only earn a little amount as he has no quals so he could pay no maintenance. I'm stuck.

Well I'm getting things sorted in my head, I just find it all so daunting and I'm also a bit apprenhensive...Although I have no desire to be married to this horrible father of my children anymore I am worried that by no longer being his wife loses me cetain things..ie silly i know but should he die will he's things like pension etc still come to me (or rather my children - its them i actually want to benefit from any of he's stuff - i don't want it at all). How will my children stand in line once this new child is born? What if he re-marries...I'm so worried that the new wife will end up entitled to half my bloody house!! I know all these things are far off & I am planning to go see a solicitor next week...but I'm worrying frantically about these silly things. Also the consulatation for the solicitor is £30 for half an hour...not too bad but I begrudge paying for a service that i utimately didn't want...i was prepared to work at the marriage why should i be even more out of pocket! (to add insult to injury the solicitor he saw only charges a £5 consultation fee - how does he always get the better deal!!)

I met up with him at the weekend to discuss things it was so hard (i wanted to kick him right where it hurts so he could feel pain because he obviously has no feelings that i can hurt) BUT I DIDN'T - i was very very calm & civil, we even joked & laughed at some points (bizarre feeling i can tell you) but i am proud of myself because i was so good about it for my boys, thats all i want is for them to know in years to come that Mummy was nice & didn't stop daddy seeing them etc even though it gives me so much heartache each time (only been twice! but the following day is hardest - when my 2 year old asks where daddy is? it was easier in some ways when he didn't bother with the contact becaus eall that time my son didn't ask, it's only now since he saw him)

I'm garbling on part of me is sooo angry but mostly I'm hurting I still cry most of the time but manage to hold back infront of my sons (have broken down a few times in front of him but not as much as i did in the begining)

Dixie, at the risk of sounding like Oprah Winfrey, the one thing that leapt from the screen in your last posting was the words "but I am proud of myself". Believe me, if you can keep that spirit up you will come out of this a finer person.
When you get right down to it there are very few things in life which REALLY matter. The breakdown of a marriage is a devestating thing to go through but you still have your boys and it sounds like you still have your self respect if you can act in a way which makes you proud of yourself.
Have you made any enquiries about mediation?

dixie, you should feel proud for coping so well. well done. take care.

Jasper has put it really well, Dixie - you are a great mum and your boys are lucky to have you. Hope you get full value for money out of your solicitors and would also suggest mediation if you think you can get it to work for you. Take care - we'll get to Bluewater for that latte before Christmas, won't we.

Well done, Dixie. You are proving yourself a real trooper under great stress. Your boys will be very proud of you one day. Meanwhile remember to feel proud of yourself.