Insecure or controlling?

[TwitchyWitch]

Or both?

Seeing a man for about 5 months, went extremely well until recently. He is super reliable and seemed kind, easygoing, supportive, open to commitment etc. After lots of non-starters, I was delighted to be an in apparently good relationship, was walking around smiling unintentionally etc.

We live 40 or so mins apart, see each other at the weekend and sometimes one evening; and as I don't drive, he was doing the vast majority of the to'ing and fro'ing without complaint as well.

Earlier this month he seemed out out that I'd decided to attend an event on my own. Long story but I just preferred to go alone. I arranged something for us to do on sun evening instead (event was on Sat evening which we usually spend together) but he made several comments that suggested he found it odd, his nose was a bit out of joint and that he wondered why he wasn't invited/taken along and why I hadn't been clear with the hostess that I'm now in a steady relationship etc. I responded to these comments and there was no animosity or conflict - I was left wondering if maybe I should have explained more why I went alone instead of just doing my thing (I'm very independent) and leaving him wondering.

Halloween - my city has a event/festival type thing, I asked if he was coming to it with his family, he said no (past that age), I was going to watch part of the event but had no intention of going "out" in the city - until I got a last minute invite to join friend and her visitor from Germany, which I happily accepted since the atmosphere is great during the festival. I did not tell him about it and (to me) had no real reason to as we were not seeing each other.

During the evening, he texted (as we often do), he realised I was out at a bar/club type thing and, to my surprise, got quite annoyed ... He said numerous things among them that I'd already been away to a party on my own, had been to the cinema another night this week, now this - he felt i was "moving away from the relationship". I hadn't mentioned anything about it to him etc.

He seemed to get more ranty as he went on, until I finally cracked, shouted at him (I can't even remember clearly what) and he calmed down/backed down considerably and we ended the call in more reasonable terms.

During the rant, the behaviour seemed so out if character for the man I've known that I actually wondered if he was drinking/drunk (though he's a very light drinker) and asked him, which caused him to get offended and contributed to the rant.

Since then it's not been easy to talk about the "conversation" on Halloween night, but from what he's said, apparentlye he has strong feelings for me, cares a lot about the relationship, feels a bit insecure in it and is also a bit freaked out since I told him that I once cheated on an ex and that's stuck in his head.

He has been such a great guy up til now that I don't want to finish and I understand hearing someone had cheated (maybe I should learn to keep my mouth shut and that honesty isn't always the best policy) might make their partner worry ... But I'm extremely independent, sociable if given the chance and would like to take any social opportunities I get (I would no matter what but esp with us living 40mins or more apart and I also suffered depression after my last relationship ended and I was alone too much so want to build up a social scene).

He seems a bit embarrassed about the outburst/rant but it has me uneasy and I wonder is it surmountable insecurity or is he potentially controlling.

It sounded petty that's why I didn't write it but here goes..

I was having new carpet fitted, and I changed the day of the fitting to a day we were going out in the evening, it suited me better. He was raging that I didn't 'discuss' it with him firstcarpet fitting ffs and MY carpet/home!!!

I'd never seen him so 'angry' before, I just couldn't believe he thought I SHOULD have discussed MY carpet fitting, in MY home that he did NOT live in.

Sounds petty, but his reaction was VERY off kilter.

I ignored it as he was so 'into me' but as you can clearly see, I've never forgotten it.

I can write a book on all the things that happened during that relationship. I tried my hardest to look at his POV (I really did) but try as I might, he wanted control of a VERY independent woman. Independent though doesn't mean inconsiderate, uncompromising, I'm neither of these things, I have two DC and have spent my life considering, compromising and sacrificing.

I called it a day last year after yet another unreasonable outburst from him. I no longer carry this burden of being 'wrong' and continually doubting myself. I have freedom of mind and that is truly priceless.

That's like saying an relationship isn't abusive if both people are abusive

What a ridiculous comment to make.

Both of you agreeing to tell each other where you're going before you go would mean it wasn't controlling.
Both of you punching is other in the face when you've had too much to drink would still be abusive.

You've come on here asking for people's opinions, then accepted you could have done things differently, until people agreed you could have done things differently then you've decided everybody's wrong and he was controlling you all along.

You've managed to argue with almost everyone here, even those validating your behaviour.

Both of you agreeing to tell each other where you're going before you go would mean it wasn't controlling.

Yes it would.

No, the only people I've disagree with itt are yourself and the lady who uses lots of lovely words like agreeable to describe quite a degree of control within a relationship, people feeling they have to know/have the right to know what their bf/gf of a few months (in my card living nearly an hour apart) is doing pretty much all the time, and the right to get offended if they don't go out of their way to tell them that they're doing something/going somewhere, even last minute, that does not affect them.

Just because lots of people participate in unhealthy relationships due to neediness or control does not make them ok.

I wish id known more about then nature of coercive control before id had long term relationships with a number of manipulative narcissists and abusers(&had my kids too-but thats the upside😊).I finally learnt how to spot the signs when i met a lovely lady at gym,me as single, hesistantly approaching the dating scene &her a seasoned pro with many years of happy singledom under her wing.She was incredible! As our friendship developed she couldnt believe i was so naive&romanticised in my views..(i really had bought into societies man+woman=normal drivel)I thought she was incredibly cynical,shallow&suspicious! Being mid40's &single parents,into sport&healthy living &environmental stuff we had a fair bit in common&became good mates.I watched /listened over the years as she happily dated many many guys&had a ball..she was the wisest woman i ever knew..red flag/💩spotter Pro..Regaled me over many coffees &i began to see human behaviour in a completely new way..it was like the blinkers came off my eyes &worth ££s as a shrink.Men&women are just for the most part massively incompatible..Just read the threads on here (ad nauseum).If you learn to view things transactionally(as they do)&practice self preservation,independance&freedom.Putting yours&your families needs/interestsbefore anything he could possibly bring to the table you'll become more detached and capable of some decent reflection.Hes giving you [email protected] mask has slipped.Dont make excuses,second guess yourself or play the introspect til you go nut card.Move on&play the field or just revel in peaceful sanity..Enjoy

You've come on here asking for people's opinions, then accepted you could have done things differently, until people agreed you could have done things differently then you've decided everybody's wrong and he was controlling you all along.

Wtaf are you on about luv?

From the v start I've said I had doubts about not explaining the lack of invite to the party, but not anything about Halloween.

I have nit deviated from that once.

I've explained the lack of invite to the party, only to be questioned and made to defend myself about every aspect of everything I said casually in conversation about the party & Halloween - from who stayed over at the party, to the relationship status of the two guys I played table tennis with there, to what I wore at Halloween ... all very healthy and reasonable.

And you, instead of recognising 'jealous, controlling man 101' and giving decent advice, like some other posters, are criticising me too and by implication backing him up. Hope you don't give advice to any vulnerable females.

*not

@Itsallpointless

When it all boils down, it's about being too priority/number one all the time, isn't it.

It's actually about ego - them saying (and all the other people echoing) that it's insecurity, and it's their feelings for you etc. is probably just a nice excuse - it's actually that now yours in an established relationship, they expect to be too priority at all times and you making anything else a priority makes them angry.

*top priority

@twitchy completely agree, he wanted exclusivity. If I saw him 3 days a week, he'd want 4, 4, then it'd be 5, you can see where I'm going here.

I was (still am) working very full time (he was retired) and I spent my whole weekend from Friday till Sunday every week with him. I neglected a lot of areas in my life.

Everyone's relationship is different. Another woman may have welcomed an exclusive relationship, they may have been flattered to have been so prioritised by another, that wasn't for me, and we locked horns continually.

There is nothing more I wanted than to be in a loving/caring relationship, and this man had lots going for him, but not enough to counteract the controlling elements he was capable of, one of the reasons I never lived with him, I'd never have had my own life.

I started reading this thread thinking it was a 50/50 situation (if I only saw my OH at weekends, I might be a bit peed off if they made other arrangements for one of the few days we could get together, but no reason why you shouldn't go out separately).

But the thing about the clothing? No. Just No. He was taking from your conversation what he presumed he was hearing, not what you were saying. He was confirming his own prejudices with the 'you said you were wearing a short, tight dress' (which would, indeed, be a weird thing to say to your partner when you weren't going out with them). He's going to be one of those who twists your words to make you out to be whatever he presumes you to be.

Whether that's insecure or controlling, it would be a pain to deal with long term. I'd let this one go.

Another woman may have welcomed an exclusive relationship

To my understanding an exclusive relationship is one where you are monogamous and committed.

Not one in which you spend every minutes with each other , and if not together are constantly in contact, and have to keep each other aware or every thing you do and everywhere you go (even last min) or they get offended.

Some people like that because it makes them feel secure and allows them control to me it's not healthy (and is actually likely to get you stuck in a relationship with an abuser) but to each their own.

But the thing about the clothing?

It's straight into crazy, jealous man territory.

And yeah it makes me feel like I can't open my mouth without thinking through what I'm going to say in case he picks on something to get insecure or jealous about.

The irony is he said one of the things that he likes most about me is that he feels he can say whatever he likes, be himself etc. with me, unlike a previous girlfriend; because I'm easygoing, have a good sense of humour, do t get offended etc. But he's made it the opposite for me.

Totally agree.

I was more on the "he's insecure" side off the fence until the clothing comments.

I can't imagine ever being concerned about what DW was wearing to an occasion without me. I'd be interested, for sure but concerned? Never.

That is stepping over a line.

I think if on balance, the relationship is still a positive for you, then I'd take the opportunity to be extremely clear with him that he's pushing for a level of influence in your life that you're absolutely not going to accept.

It's then up to him whether he can adjust to that.

If it's too much of a red flag for you, I think you're perfectly justified in walking away.

So what if he is insecure? IMO that's its own string of bright red bunting. Interesting how insecurity actually seems to get worse as the relationship progresses, when logically the insecure person should be learning that they can trust their other half, innit. It starts with a slight spat over your changed Hallowe'en plans, and before you know it you're required to throw away all your Youssou N'Dour CDs because you mentioned that one of your ex-boyfriends is Senegalese (true story, happened to a friend!). I'd say he's just kicking your tyres to see how amenable you might be to a spot of coercion.

@TwitchyWitch

Your story is so similar to mine

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3722832-BF-of-two-months-annoyed-I-booked-holiday-without-him?msgid=90977374

To save you reading it, things started great and got intense quick. There were some red flags which I ignored, little lies, stories not adding up.

Then he threw all his toys out of the pram when I went to a pub with some friends and didn't text him. I should have ditched him then but carried on. Then he was pissed off that I booked a holiday without him, despite telling him I intended to do so. Then he upped the childish gaslighting bollocks, I saw the light and dumped him.

I'm sorry your relationship sounds similar. It's been quite hard to deal with - I was so taken in by the charm, chemistry etc that I overlooked so much. We laughed at needy people on our first date and he turned out to be the most needy controlling guy I've ever dated.

Have you ended things or discussed things with him?

I haven't actually, you have however no I haven't.

It is not normal for people who have been going out for five months, do not live together, share no children, meet once a week (twice at most) etc. to know what the other person is doing and where they are almost all the time This is YOUR normal. There are a lot of other points of view out there which are also "normal". I can see that and I do think that you are struggling with it. No one else is saying to me that I support abusive relationships but an awful lot of people are telling you that they do not share your point of view.
They are all wrong? They are all abusive?

You're completely fixed in yours yes, obviously, because it is my point of view. But I can also see other people's and do not think they are wrong or abusive simply because their point of view is different to mine. That is a difference.

I do now recognise you, I think - you start a lot of threads?

Bottom line, he doesn't trust you, from what you say. I wouldn't have a relationship with someone who doesn't trust me, because it would be a waste of time - I would want connection, intimacy, a meeting of minds, and that would be impossible if they don't trust you. That is my point of view. Yours might be different and still valid.

that is the* difference I mean

and

who didn't* trust me.

Sorry, all afternoon watching kids play football kinda kills the brain.

@writergirl007

I actually remember your thread. I think you did the right thing, and I have too.

it you're required to throw away all your Youssou N'Dour CDs because you mentioned that one of your ex-boyfriends is Senegalese (true story, happened to a friend!

I know it's not meant to be funny (and it isn't) but I laughed at that.

Oh we've already had the comment about how he and his mates day they would never go out with a woman who's been with a black man - yes, really.

When I said that sounded v racist, he said that he wasn't racist, he's kissed a black woman etc. when visiting London. He said that woman who go after/get with black men are a certain type. I was too mind boggled to even begin to unravel it, I just out it down to him being a small town, parochial dude. I realise I shouldn't have let it go and should have challenged him on exactly what type women who get with black men (non black women i'm presuming) are.

Funny how men who are "insecure" are also do often racist, sexist etc as well.

*he and his mates say

^^WTAF!!!

Come to thinknic it the DJ that runs the alt EDM thing we went to on Halloween night is black - I really should've mentioned that, then I could've gotten a triple whammy of "you were out without telling me", "wearing a short dress", "and there was a black guy there!!!" from him.

this guy's sounding worse by the minute OP.

From the original OP, I was expecting the BF to be younger, in his 20s. The fact that he is in his 40s makes me readjust my opinion. I still think he is more insecure than controlling, but I'd really not expect that from a man in his 40s who has dependents.

As you have said OP, you are two fully grown adults, living independently without shared kids or finance, he has a dependent and lives a little way away. It is unusual that he'd know everything that you do, all the time.

I am more surprised at his apparent annoyance now (and I say this as someone who takes non-invites personally) because I'd expect it from someone younger. In his 40s with kid(s) to me means that yes, you might mention that you are going/have been out, but it's hardly surprising if you don't give him an itinerary or if things like an ad hoc invitation pop up. That's just life, odd that he got annoyed.