Upset 5yo DS, upset and depressed ExH, and I have no idea how to handle this...

[katewitch]

Let me start this essay preface this by saying that ExH moved out last year, and as far as I could tell 5yo DS has handled it fantastically. He sees his dad 2 consecutive weekday evenings a week, and every other weekend Friday after school to Sunday evening, when he comes home to me. He likes to know the plan and if unsure will check whether its "a mummy day or a daddy day", and always seems fine with answer and mostly excited to see his dad, though he will tell me that he misses me (understandable, I miss him too!).

ExH and I get on well as friends and co-parent well. We always to a catch up at handover on the Sundays ExH has DS, and we WhatsApp each other with things we are doing with DS etc. All very amiable.

ExH has depression, for which he is currently seeking treatment. It may be relevant that his issues with this and cripplingly low self-esteem - or, more accurately, his unwillingness to get help for these and deal with them - were factors in us splitting up though it was mostly pure incompatibility in communication styles, money, goals... but that factor was there.

So last week ExH asked me if DS ever cries when I pick him up and asks for him instead. Honestly, DS is only ever delighted when I pick him up, but I tried to soften relaying this information to ExH.

Apparently DS regularly cries for me, asks for me, whispers "I want mummy" just loud enough for ExH to hear and then if asked what he said will say "nothing".

Today I texted ExH some news from school, he has DS this evening. DS has cried when he saw it was ExH picking him up, didn't want to leave after school club, had to be carried to the car... and is now sulking on ExH's sofa.

When I've chatted to DS about daddy's house he says he loves daddy but daddy's house is too small (it's a standard size flat, but we live in a house). That's the only thing he will say he isnt happy with! Once hes actually there they always have a fun time, he never seems overly happy to leave when I pick him up etc...

But it is killing ExH. In his words he is "totally broken by it". He tries not to let on to DS but this evening has tried to explain to him that it makes him sad etc, but DS obviously is too young to really understand it. Honestly if it were the other way around I would be struggling immensely too.

I just dont know what to do about it. ExH doesnt really lean on me for emotional support generally, he has family, friends and a new partner. But this is coming up in our co-parenting and I dont know what to do.

I dont know how to help ExH deal with it, I feel so sad for him and also guilty, but also I feel sad for DS who is clearly struggling and I want to help the situation but have no idea how. I certainly don't want to make things worse!

If anyone wiser than me has been through similar I would really appreciate your advice their relationship has always been great until recently and this is hurting all of us...

Could you persuade ex give his room a makeover to be similar to his room at your house? Same lamp /bedding maybe?

Maybe... it is a tiny room so some posters or cool cushions may help, or take some stuff from here? He has tons and I want it out of the house anyway!

Is your exDH always so self centred? HE is devastated? I would be concerned about DC crying and missing mum, not about the feelings of an adult man. The needs of the child are more important, specially a child so young.

I would want to get to the bottom of what is going in there.

Either you ds IS unhappy at his dad but is hiding well.
Or your ex has some massive MH issues and sees things that don’t exist/makes a mountain out of a molehill.

If your ex has a partner, what does she think? Is she reporting that your ds is upset etc too?

In his words he is "totally broken by it".

Kids say and do stuff all the time.

'He tries not to let on to DS but this evening has tried to explain to him that it makes him sad etc, but DS obviously is too young to really understand it.'

Why is he burdening a child with responsibility for his emotions? A child isn't supposed to emotionally support a parent- it's inappropriate for your ex to lay an emotional burden on him. Children shouldn't have to deal with that. It should be the other way round.

It also could make your DS feel he has to keep quiet about his feelings of missing you etc.

By 'kids say and do stuff all the time' what I meant is kids come out with stuff, they don't think things through as much as adults, because they're kids. Adults might be hurt but in terms of its effect on themselves, they have to somewhat shrug it off- at least with a kid the age of 5.

Agree with PP your ex should NOT be burdening his son with his feelings! He may have to reduce the visits so it's a treat to go, it seems a lot of going back and forth.
Could he see him at your house instead for one of the evenings?

The new partner mentioned right at the end...is she present during your dc visits?

I think your ex harping on about his feelings to dc isn’t going to help. Maybe he just needs to pretend that he is happy and can cope with your dc reaction.

So what exactly is he expecting DS to do? Pretend to be happy so he doesn’t feel sad? My Dad used to do exactly this to me and I still massively resent him for it.

Your DS is five. It’s up to your ex to make him happy, not the other way round.

Has anyone else witnessed your ds behaviour at exh flat.
Maybe his depression is making it seem worse or maybe do one night a week and a night every weekend.

I feel like DS is just being 5 and ExH's own issues are making it seem way worse than it is... and I completely agree that DS is in no way responsible for ExH's feelings! Tonight is the first time they have been mentioned to DS as far as I'm aware.

I feel like a heartless bitch sometimes when I feel like ExH should just deal with it and get on with things, so its actually good to hear that I'm not being...

ExH's new partner doesn't live with them no, shes there sometimes at the weekends, but she doesnt really speak to me (ina shy way more than a nasty way). DS really likes her, goes to her for cuddles etc. No concerns there, she's quiet but I'm happy with her being around DS.

I think posters asking if hes making it worse in his mind may be onto something... thank you all for responding!

I'll speak to ExH and we can get an "action plan" going that involves ExH supporting DS's emotions and working on not letting it bother him.

I think things will be easier when he is on antidepressants and having counselling but hes waiting for a GP appointment at the moment...

Obviously DS is my only real concern but I also don't want his good relationship with his dad made less good... that being said you're all correct that DS feeling responsible for ExH's feelings etc is the thing that's actually going to do that.

ExH is usually pretty reasonable if you talk him through stuff so I will do so, and be firm about not letting on that it bothers him to DS

To be honest, if you were still together, your son would in all likelihood have phases of preferring one parent and not wanting the other to do certain things. My daughter always wants me to put her to bed, and it's a bit upsetting for my husband. Both have gone through phases of preferring him and screaming when I tried to comfort them or do something specific with them instead of their dad.

Of course its upsetting, but its also normal. I dont think he should be telling your son how upsetting it is, as that's just going to put more pressure on your son and make him feel worse and like he shouldn't tell his dad if he is upset.

Once my daughter went through a big phase of preferring my husband and she wouldn't tell me why, she did tell someone else about it and it was because I was more snappy and shouty than normal (sleep deprived with a new baby) so you could try getting someone neutral to ask him what he likes and dislikes about both houses, and also ask him to brainstorm together to come up with a plan to make him feel less homesick at his dads. In the meantime his dad should just respond with something like a sympathetic 'oh no, it can be upsetting when you miss someone can't it, why don't we do a nice picture for mummy/ take some nice photos / bake some cakes for her etc for when you see her' ie empathise and distract

My kids used to get upset when their dad picked them up. Occasionally they'd get upset when I picked them up but not very often. It must be hard for kids when they have to just accept all these changes going on in their lives and having no choice in the matter.

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing telling children that they have hurt your feelings or made you sad by their words or actions. It doesn't make them responsible for your feelings but they need to know that words can hurt someone

Gosh, if I'd have divorced mine for differing views on communication and money we wouldn't have made the first year.
Your son sounds confused, it's a shame so many people have kids and move on so quickly for the trivialist of reasons.

Ask dad to make his flat your ds home, to decorate his room how he wants it, and to make his home welcoming.

You're absolutely right of course... he used to do that switching favourites in phases thing when we were still together, I know all kids do it

Those are some good strategies for ExH to employ too, thank you!

I'll get him validating DS's feelings and distracting him, trying not to let on that it bothers him... and push him to get himself sorted with the GP.

Thanks for the feedback, I was going in the right direction but worrying too much about being uncaring to ExH. Feel like you've helped me order my thoughts around it, thank you all

X-posted... yes lying that's the angle I was thinking of, of empathy with others, but I think now it's been mentioned to him it's best to try helping DS deal with his feelings in a more constructive way. Thanks :)

Drabarni

Ooo - little bit passive aggressive smugness coming through there and of no actual use or support to Katewitch

Apologies, shouldn't have posted that OP.
Not smugness at all, it upsets me when I see kids from broken homes struggling and parents not working through non issues.

However, was mean of me not to contain my thoughts. and sorry OP

Drabani apologies accepted, but do know that just because I briefly summarised the reasons for the split in this thread, that is not a reflection on how much they were gone over and how long we struggled to work through them in life. This thread just isn't about that!

I will ask him if he would like some cool stuff for his room there, I do think that would probably help. Hes got some dinosaur posters he could out up and some glow stars he likes, plus could take some toys from here as well.

My 6yo cheers when it’s my turn to do bedtime and just sighs when it’s daddy’s turn. He knows he’s not allowed to say negative things about daddy's turns as I tell him it’s unkind but otherwise we just ignore it. I’d advise you do the same.

'push him to get himself sorted with the GP.'

He can get a same day emergency appointment for this if he starts calling before the surgery opens. If it risks effecting his son then it's an emergency.

As someone who lives with a DP who is periodically depressed, I recognise the voice of the partner who has become accustomed to inordinately accommodate, take account of and try to second guess the feelings of the DP. Exhausting although I am prepared to be told I am wrong
Only really came on to say that I feel for you. Your exDP sounds fragile, but really, the healthy, robust response should be for your exDP to meet DS in his feeling of missing you and love him through it, not take it personally.