How much would you ‘involve’ the dcs?

[HeyNotInMyName]

Involve isn’t the right word I think but can’t find one that would fit.

So... things are not going well atm. I am finding that H is behaving in a way that isn’t acceptable and I’m (finally!) starting to fight back.
These are things like belittling me (in front of the dcs), telling me xx is my fault (eg I have this mistake because you were talking to me), not pulling his weight, refusing to believe I could be right and arguing I’m wrong or very visibly checking something I’ve said (could be anything as stupid as the packet is pasta is half full’).
We have two teenage dcs who obviously are witness of all of that.

Now my question is. Is it better to

• pull H up in front if the dcs so that it is clear to them that xx behaviour is not acceptable. Or that YY happens because H can’t be bothered to do his bit of parenting Etc...
• not involve the dcs at all and only have a ‘discussion’ with H when they are not around?

WWYD?

I'd perhaps give him a private warning next time that you won't stand for it for very long. If I didn't see a vast improvement following that, then I'd tell him it was over, to be honest .

Aren't you worn down by all of that?

Oh yes! I am worn out.

But there has been many things going on that means I ended in survival mode, feeling hurt but totally unable to articulate why. Which then made me the unreasonable one because I was all ‘feelings’ and no real pragmatic reason iyswim.

Atm what i want to do is to show the dcs that it’s not acceptable and the clearly spell the reasons why.

Today, dc asked me about something we need to do. I said that he needed to talk to H about it as he would handle it as it involves contacting the school.
Answer from dc ‘but why can’t you do it?’
So I explained and said I am already doing a lot, I don’t want to do everything and therefore this is now H responsibility.
(Dc answer to that says it all though ‘Yes he said, ut what will happen is that Daddy will just ask me to go and see the school and sort it out’).

That’s what I am talking about.

Bump

There's damage either way.

Either you're criticizing their other parent, not good. Or you're modeling being a doormat, also not good.

In the example you gave, I probably wouldn't involve the dc. It isn't their fault their dad is useless. If your husband won't do certain things for his children, then I'd do them.

But in general, I wouldn't put up with someone belittling me or contradicting me when I am right or any of that shit and I particularly wouldn't put up with it if my childrenw ere present. I'd say "please don't take that tone with me" or "you can continue arguing that there is no such thing as gluten free pasta but I know there is" or whatever.

It sounds like a fairly dismal atmosphere tbh. Was he always like this?

I don’t think there’s any coming back from this place you are in, sorry OP. When your dp disrespects you and your judgement and blames you or others for his own mistakes it’s never going to end well. I’d be thinking about leaving. He’s a lazy ass by the sound of it.

Every time he demeans or belittles you in front of your kids you need to fight back.

Either you're criticizing their other parent, not good. Or you're modeling being a doormat, also not good.

Yep that’s exactly where I’m coming from.

Has he always been like this?
He has been worse, very PA to anything when put in a position where he had to do something he didn’t want (think looking after the dcs when I was at work some weekends or when dcs want to participate in xx competition and he doesn’t want to - they do the same sports together). Plus stonewalling and a few other things.
He has ‘improved’

However, just now, I need to prepare myself to separate (aka I need to be able to work - dont atm due to ill health) and that means managing the situation until I’m in a better place.

What I have a real issue with is to see the dcs (esp dc2) then ‘repeating’ said behaviour.
I need them to know this is not acceptable and why.

What I have a real issue with is to see the dcs (esp dc2) then ‘repeating’ said behaviour. I need them to know this is not acceptable and why.

Actions speak louder than words! ‘Do as I say and not as I do’ isn’t the most credible of teaching methods.

Sadly, your children have already learnt the corrosive lessons of watching their parents abusive relationship dynamic.

My mum never stood up for herself. So I guess I learned to just stay quiet and take it from my dad too and and never stand up for myself.

Well I’m well aware of that!
There isn’t a lot I can change about what has happened before. Regardless of the right or wrong, the ‘should’ (should have realised, should have left etc...) or the fact the dynamic might have been abusive or not.

However, this is also why I want to change things. And why I was asking about the best way to handle things.

It does come back to the question: Is it ever OK to criticise the other parent or is it better to say things like they are (aka your dad is wrong for doing xxx)?

It does come back to the question: Is it ever OK to criticise the other parent

The fact that you’re asking in the circumstances you subscribe, suggest that you don’t understand the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. The strategic position you adopted by being his emotional punching bag is not for nothing. You did it because the alternative was more abuse.

You’re right, you can’t change the past or all the poor relationship modelling that your children have witnessed but there are no half measures if you decide to stop being a doormat. You need to be consistent and there have to be consequences. If you aren’t prepared to do either, then what’s the point.

Hmm... I think it’s more complicated than that.
You have actually no idea if I have taken a stand or not. If H has taken it into account etc....
You seem to suggest the way forward is consequences’, aka leaving?, wo knowing my own circumstances.

In my particular case, I have two dcs doing their GCSE. I’m not sure me that putting them ins situation where they might have to change school is particularly helpful to them. Nor would it be helpful to them to live in poverty (chronic illness, can’t work full time, would struggle to claim benefits due to the fact the I’m an EU citizen and can’t give back home’ or have direct support from family).

I have to take a step by step approach.

As fur being a doormat, I agree that I certainly have been reproducing what my mum has done.
But then when you are so unwell you struggle to look after yourself, let alone your own dcs, it’s quite hard to make a stance tbh..,

Could you try counselling to try and understand what he’s doing or how to best handle the situation?

I don’t know if it’s gone too far. If he sees you as an idiot or someone who doesn’t understand it remember things it must have come from somewhere. Was there a time when he was right to question your judgement? Ie baby brain after the children, or meds making you forgetful? If so you could try saying to him that you “appreciate there were times when I wasn’t right due to xxx but I’m fine now so if you ask me something trust my judgement and if you are not prepared to trust me then don’t waste your breath asking me something you won’t believe my answer for. It’s disrespectful and I don’t do it to you”.

If that doesn’t work you may just have to stand up for yourself, especially in front of the kids. “Silly dad asked me how much bread was left and I told him but he’s away checking the cupboard anyway. Silly dad!” See how he likes it. He will inevitably complain, at which point you can remind him that “I told you to stop disrespecting me. Now you know what it feels like. Kindly stop it”. By which point there will be a tension in the house but there isn’t much can be done if you speak with him and he persists?

I had an ex like that. It was such a sense of freedom to be away. I was in a right state with stress because of him. Like every conversation was a battle. I didn’t know how to stop it though. He didn’t listen to my side, just shrugged me off and walked away as though I was an idiot. He was a spoiled boy and his dad was like that to his mum sometimes, huffy too, so I get you quite rightly want the children to have a positive female role model. Get your health sorted as next you can read to do whatever you need to. If you need private healthcare get him to stump up. I had to go private for acupuncture but it changed my life. Took a few months to start having hope for life alone but now I’m happy.

'What I have a real issue with is to see the dcs (esp dc2) then ‘repeating’ said behaviour.
I need them to know this is not acceptable and why.'

You answered your own question there to an extent- you have to start letting them know what he does isn't acceptable.

Maybe have a word with him personally first and say for instance that if he belittles you in front of the kids again, you'll have to say something at the time. You could cite the kids copying as a reason. Best wishes xxx

It’s incredibly corrosive living with this. I know because I’m in the same boat. I also go through periods where my husband gives me the silent treatment in front of the kids. It’s awful. I have no choice but to put up with it though although it’s dragged me to my knees in my self esteem etc which then makes it even harder to do something. I have no local support system and an emotionally abusive mother who takes rather than gives so I live with high stress/anxiety and dysfunction every day and just try and keep things stable for the kids. I’m guessing that when they’re through senior school and don’t need me as much that I’ll leave then. Only another 10 years to go!

I have been in a similar position to you.
Married to a narcissist for 18 years with 2 teenagers.
He would insult, abuse and criticise me on a daily basis infront of them.
Both my children defended me on several occasions.

But i am sad to say that my son treats me the same way that his father did. He has learned the behaviour.

My story is long and complicated, but i wish I had got out sooner so they were not exposed to his bad behaviour.

Personally I think you must stand your ground and not be seen as a doormat.

Be careful of him whittling away your self esteem and confidence.

I too, have ongoing health problems caused by his abuse and I am on benefits.
We get by, and i do not have to put up with his abuse anymore. It is just sad that my son copies Ex narcs behaviour.

Good luck.