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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

In a relationship with someone who is avoidant...

52 replies

peculiarways · 14/10/2019 13:09

After a long think and a lot of reading of research articles after a period of distant from my partner, I have identified that he is love-avoidant in many ways.

My partner is an extremely wonderful person, and I have imagined my life with him. He can be very loving at times, very emotionally connected and considerate and then out of the blue he can push me away over seemingly small things and act cold towards me.

He is extremely independent, and in some respects a bit of a "loner". I am his only serious relationship (he is in his 30s). He is extremely shy and in his own words socially awkward. Having a relationship with me he said came "out of the blue" and he had never had conversations he had with me with anyone else. He has 2 close friends to whom he is extremely loyal and will always help them when they need (e.g. driving one of them to the airport in the middle of the night with 1 hours notice).

He is extremely uncomfortable about talking about feelings, so much so that he can't actually put them into words sometimes. Sometimes he will just sit and silently cry out of the blue, with no way to communicate to me how he feels.

He also flips from being extremely affectionate with me, to barely being able to touch me. For example, he will want to hold hands in public and cuddle in bed for days and then one night when we get into bed he will sleep in the "brace" position and barely come anywhere near me. He will go distant for days on end, wrapped up in his own head.

He is excessive in his own success and pursues an activity which he is quite highly regarded in. This activity always has come first, which is fine by me. He does this activity every day without fail, for at least one hour, sometimes more. So, on top of a 9-6 job he is out of the house most of the time, on the go. He has recently been promoted meaning more hours, and which has put a strain on his time. I have felt this, and he seems to think I will start demanding more of his time, and he has freaked out that his routine has been changed. He always said he was a creature of habit, and seems to think I am trying to control his independence.

He absolutely despises any kind of conflict, as in, he literally can't deal with it. Small disagreements or expressions of needs from me will lead to him not knowing what to do/what to say and going distant. This will most likely always be followed up by catastrophising and proclamations that the relationship isn't working and that he is very confused. He then says days later that he overreacted and that he didn't mean it.

Whenever he pushes me away when he goes distant, he always ends up more upset and saying that he misses me and doesn't know how to help the situation.
When faced with conflict or an argument, becoming distant, aloof or cold; even when the argument is so microscopic (e.g. where shall we eat tonight?) and then following up saying our "perfect" relationship has changed and things shouldn't be like this. He says he goes silent because he is confused and expects me to react negatively when he opens up to me. He ALWAYS thinks my feelings towards him are negative, even in these small arguments.

Despite all these points, I very much love him and I know he loves me. I know to most people this seems like an unfulfilling relationship, but I want to be with him.

I suppose what is forefront in my mind is that I can understand why he is like this in relationships. My partner was (and still is) emotionally abused by his mother. His mother picked on him out of all his siblings to be cruel to. This was due in part to him "looking like his father" who had multiple affairs. His mother would lock him outside on nights that he did something wrong, so he would have to sleep in the garden. He also was left in the house with his siblings for weeks on end whilst the mother went missing. Now, the relationship is very much my partner trying to impress his mother and get her love. It's horrible to watch and I have had to keep my mouth shut a lot the time. She massively takes advantage of him, taking his money and using his credit cards/taking out loans in his name and making him to do her favours through guilt tripping "are you not going to take your sister to X place" (even though it's a 4 hour drive).

So, I have the understanding of why he acts like he does in relationships, especially in conflict (that, in my eyes, doesn't warrant any further thought)

... now what? I really want to share this with him, but I don't know if it will push him away further. I am scared of losing him/him leaving me, because he is the first person I ever "wanted" to be with, not "needed".

I myself had therapy for similar issues, but I was anxiously-attached. I am extremely happy that I did, and I do think that my behavior with DP is so much more healthy then I would have been in the past - e.g. in the past when someone went distant, I would chase them - I don't do this anymore.

I guess I just need some direction on what to do. DP is currently in a distant phase with me and we are meeting at some point today to discuss why the argument we had caused him to go distant.

I really want to save our relationship; I dont think he is a bad person, I think he is bad at relationships, and i do think it would be a massive waste to call time.

Thank you

OP posts:
rvby · 15/10/2019 00:17

@peculiarways it's not your fault he is like this.

I hope you are able to leave this behind you and start fresh.

Are you aware of your codependent tendencies? Also I think you have an anxious attachment style, have you looked into that? Do have a google and see what you can learn... your situation with this guy sounds like a perfect storm of these two traits and learning about them may protect you in future x

MangoSalsa · 15/10/2019 00:22

I know it doesn’t feel like it now, but you’ve had a lucky escape.

I’ve been married for seven years to someone similar, but a bit less pronounced maybe (no childhood abuse, just repression). It has been really hard on me. Have tried and tried and tried and I’ve only made myself a nervous wreck. He’s tried too, his nerves are shot as well. And we’re both really unhappy a lot of the time. The effort hasn’t worked. Have an appointment with a family law practitioner next week to get advice about separating.

Did a lot of reading on attachment theory trying to make things work. Realised I was probably anxiously attached when I was a child due to parent’s divorce, got myself into healthier patterns in teens and twenties due to good friendships and relationships with secure people. But I’ve totally regressed during my marriage. It’s caused all kinds of problems.

One off the things we did to try to make it work was to sign up to an online research project where you each fill out a questionnaire each month, and it plots how your attachment style changes over time in relation to various people (parents, friends, partner, general world at large). And it cross-references it with pleasant and stressful events you report.

He was really keen at first, filled out a couple of month’s worth. Then first argument after, said he wasn’t going to do it anymore. He hasn’t’ tried. I’ve been doing it for nearly a year now, am moving from very anxious to more secure through targeted actions and strategies based on reflecting on my test results over time. That’s probably why I now feel able to make a plan to separate.

One thing that really jumped out at me from attachment theory was this. Avoidant men and anxious women often have long marriages. Long, unhappy marriages.

The other thing that jumped out at me was that the only people who make real lasting progress with changing their attachment style to security are anxious women who get into long-term relationships with secure attachment style partners. Their anxiety fades, they learn good habits and are motivated to both adopt and maintain those good habits. If you chose to stay with an avoidant partner, you are throwing away your very real chance at becoming secure in yourself.

Be aware that the way his relationship with his mother looks to you, is how your relationship with him looks to other people looking on. Think about the sympathy and empathy you feel for him, how it breaks your heart to see him treated like that. Now apply that sympathy, empathy and understanding to yourself.

It is very sad that he was treated like that. But he has to want to heal and change for himself, you can’t make him. I’ve tried and tried and tried with my husband. I’ve only ending breaking my own heart repeatedly rather than healing his. He won’t engage via therapy, either on his own or couples, everything we try on a self-help nature he drops when his is in a withdrawal phase. He is proud of the self-imposed rules and tests he applies to other people (everyone always fails in some way), rules he has devised to keep other people at a distance. He sees those strictures as an integral part of his identity, at the very core of his being.

I want to be healthy, I want to be happy, I want to be secure. I have had to realise I can only try my hardest to achieve that for myself, I can’t give it to him as a gift.

And Flowers for your loss, I am so sorry.

FFSnotanotherone · 15/10/2019 00:25

Sounds like my ex. I loved him to bits and him me. Unfortunately where I had therapy and recognised and wanted to work on my issues he couldn't. Was just not in him to do it.

Have a look at the School of Life videos on anxiously/avoidant relationships on YouTube.

VenusTiger · 15/10/2019 01:06

Wow, his mom really fucked him up! Sitting there like a defensive naughty little boy, not looking at you (like a kid does when they think you’re not there if they don’t see you), sulking, guilt tripping. Yep, poor bloke is messed up!
It’s almost like, he’s treating you like his mom, or how he’d like to speak to her.
He definitely needs therapy.
Can’t he see any of what his mom did to him as wrong? Can’t his siblings support him and talk him into counselling, or as a group?

MoreProseccoNow · 15/10/2019 07:51

Oh, OP.

It might feel like shit just now, but you are SO much better out of this "relationship".

He's clearly a messed up individual who would have made you very unhappy in the long term.

Take some time to recover, be kind to yourself - and read up on codependency.

peculiarways · 15/10/2019 10:19

Having a read up on codependency now. Friend told me to be weary of this becoming an ongoing on off thing

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 15/10/2019 12:59

Definitely. Your friend is a smart cookie, listen to them. Because to me that's what that guys game is. He's setting you up for the long game of messing you around, treating you like shit and blaming it in his mummy issues. He'll be back.

Ready up on narcissistic personality disorder just incase. And the cycle of abuse.

Stop feeling sorry for him now, worry about protecting yourself.

Pinkbonbon · 15/10/2019 13:01

Or did you mean codependency as an ongoing thing? Because yes it can be too. Sometimes certain people just have a way of bringing it out in us though. Either way it's something you can tangibly work on at least.

peculiarways · 15/10/2019 15:29

@Pinkbonbon

Yeah I can't see this being his last word either.

I do genuinely think though that he thinks I am in the wrong. This is kind of what's upsetting me, because despite everything, I hope he knows that I did have his best interests at heart.

OP posts:
rvby · 15/10/2019 16:17

I do genuinely think though that he thinks I am in the wrong.

You need to be ok with him thinking this of you op. You don't need his approval or blessing in order to move on from this.

Please please please keep reading about codependency. Almost every word you say shows that you are in its thrall, wanting approval from the other person, for example, is classic codependency.

You are a person in your own right. You do not need him to think well of you.

Pinkbonbon · 15/10/2019 17:20

You can't be all things to all men.

Coming out of a headfuck of a relationship in which I definitely developed codependency, I learned that - You can't convince everyone that there is goodness and worth inside you. And you shouldn't have to. Because if you didn't already know it was there, you wouldn't be trying so hard to prove it. And the only one that needs to believe in you, is you.

I also learned that some people only ever see cruel intentions and darkness in others because that's all they have in them. I dont know if that applies with him but it sounds like it may. It then becomes a trap of constantly trying to bare your soul to them, only for them to throw it in your face. You think if you could just explain yourself better, just...find a way to get through to them that they would understand. But it is actually you that needs to understand that they, are incapable of that - because if they saw the light in you, they would have to acnowledge that the darkness is in themselves.

Or some such deep shit.

Block him from contacting you. I know it will be hard but in the long run its the best move.

ChristmasFluff · 15/10/2019 17:31

It's him, 100 per cent. Ruining a special occasion (your upcoming birthday)? Classic toxic person manoevre.

I totally agree with everyone suggesting you look into your codependency. Healthy people don't google to find out what is wrong with someone who is behaving badly - because ultimately, that is what it is, however you paint it. They know they deserve better and they move on.

A shitty childhood is an explanation but not an excuse. Plenty of people have shitty childhoods and become great people. but toxic people love a pity party! Honestly, he has Bad News written all over him.

He'll be back, I guarantee. Messing with your head is so much fun to him! He only has to work out what will upset you more - him contacting you before your birthday, or waiting until after..... and then he'll do that.

MoreProseccoNow · 15/10/2019 17:54

PS happy birthday, OP ThanksCakeGinI hope you are spending it with those who care about you.

I'm sorry he's chosen to be so shitty, breaking up with you the night before your birthday, after you've just had a miscarriage. You deserve better.

I expect you're probably feeling a bit low, but please don't go back to him now.

Be kind to yourself & surround yourself with family & friends.

peculiarways · 16/10/2019 11:55

@ChristmasFluff It's funny in a way, my ex-DP from a few years ago who was physically abusing me, dumped me a few days before my birthday too. I told recent ex-DP it was the most hurtful thing anyone had ever done to me. And then he's done it.

He treated me with such contempt on Monday. Everything about it makes my skin crawl. The not looking at me as if I didn't exist, as if I didn't matter. He said on numerous occasions "what you think doesn't matter". My mum hasn't been well and I mentioned this at the beginning of the conversation as a way to break the ice really, not knowing we were about to break up. After everything I told him about the miscarriage he said "I hope your mum is okay anyway" when I was visibly upset I said (rather pathetically) "but you're not going to ask about me?" and he repeated "I hope your mum is okay anyway"

Prick let me travel 2 hours home in the rain and didn't bother to text me saying I hope you got home okay.

It's funny isn't it, how much people's true colours come out in bad situations. My ex-DP cheated on me numerous times and I STILL gave him the benefit of speaking to him with eye contact as if he was a human-being and I gave him a lift home because the walk was over an hour for him. It's still unclear to me what I have done to offend recent ex-DP so much to the extent that he couldn't bear to look at me and/or check if I was okay.

Breaking up with me is fine, that's his choice. But to do it so sullenly, with so much self-centred bullshit, is pathetic. Especially for a man in his 30s.

@MoreProseccoNow @Pinkbonbon @rvby thank you for your messages, they're helping me so much! I do deep down know that this is nothing to do with me, and the codependency articles are so helpful to me!

OP posts:
peculiarways · 16/10/2019 12:00

@MoreProseccoNow

Thank you! I turned my phone off for the day and still haven't turned it back on yet. I spent it with a really good friend and his husband (this is very outing, but I have previously posted on how he pointed out ex-DP was emotionally abusive; I didn't heed the advice given there to cut him out of my life, but I have learnt the hard way!) so I had quite a nice day really.

I don't think he will contact. However, he still does have my personal laptop and other things that he said he will "post to my house" (how dramatic). My best friend said he will collect these for me and arrange all that.

Trying to find the strength to block now.

OP posts:
RantyAnty · 16/10/2019 12:41

Divorced someone like that. Look up covert narcissist. Had no idea what it was until I went to my GP about stress and depression and they mentioned covert narcissist to me Block him and never speak to him again. Take the Freedom Programme if you haven't already.

peculiarways · 16/10/2019 12:43

Ahh yes a text has been sent last night on my birthday...

"Sorry things had to end here. Please send me your address, I would like to post your things to you."

OP posts:
chemicalworld · 16/10/2019 12:54

It doesn;t matter what you tell people, or how you treat them. Sometimes, when someone has been abused by their parents in the way you describe they can only hear that inner voice telling them the negativity. It becomes them, and you cannot save him.

I hope that he can eventually go and get some help to have a healthy relationship, and I am sorry that this ended like this for you - but you are best off out of it. It isn't YOU bringing out the bad in someone, it is their unhealthiness that doesn't allow them to function properly in a relationship.

Pinkbonbon · 16/10/2019 13:12

'My friend will collect them from you at this time n this place. Do not contact me again*. Give your friend his number n let him sort it out with him. Then block him on any method he may try to contact you with.

Pinkbonbon · 16/10/2019 13:17

Sorry,random highlighting lol.

Don't give him your address.
There will only be some 'laptop got lost in the mail' drama.

Once you get the computer back, check it for spyware to make sure he hasn't put anything in it (eg: to watch you through the camera or some other such creepydeepy stuff). He strikes me as a particularly bad narcissist this one, extra sadistic. So take precautions.

peculiarways · 16/10/2019 13:21

The funny thing is, he knows my address. And he knows that I know that he knows my address Confused

He's been here numerous times and I've sent the details over to him many times before.

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 16/10/2019 13:31

Uh oh. I would add 'Well you already know my address. But my friend will collect instead' to your text. So that you have it in writing that he knows already where you live.

Something I learned from there sort is that if they do or say something that makes you think 'what is that all about?' - they are up to something.

It is likely just another of his his ways of saying 'you weren't important enough to me to remember your address' to try hurt you a more.

But just incase there is more too it - Keep your doors locked n any cars safe in a garage.

Windmillwhirl · 16/10/2019 13:39

Have a look at Avoidant Personality Disorder. A controlling, critical mother could be at the centre of his issues.

Pinkbonbon · 16/10/2019 13:40

I think you can see from ops later update posts that she isn't dealing with avoidant PD case. She's dealing with an emotionally manipulative asshat.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 16/10/2019 13:55

This activity always has come first, which is fine by me.

And what will happen when it isn't fine by you? When you really need him there for some reason?

If (for an obvious example) you were to have children, where would they come? Where would your needs come as his children's co-parent and his partner? Ahead of his activity, or behind? What would come first if you were ill, or grieving, or traumatised, or disabled? Would he step up? Or will his activity continue to come first?

And the same applies to his avoidant behaviour. How do you think he will deal with an upset child, or a misbehaving child? How can he support you when you are in trouble and need him, if he is so avoidant himself.

I have imagined my life with him.

You have not imagined it realistically. What you are imagining is an idealised version.

I suppose what is forefront in my mind is that I can understand why he is like this in relationships. My partner was (and still is) emotionally abused by his mother.

He is a very damaged person and you cannot fix his damage. You need to find a healthy person who you can have a healthy non-avoidant relationship with. You cannot patch this man up.

I myself had therapy for similar issues, but I was anxiously-attached.

How long ago? You may need some more so you can learn to build up healthy relationships and not be afraid to end unhealthy ones.

i do think it would be a massive waste to call time.

It would be an even bigger waste and a lot more pain to call time after you have a child and he fails that child and fails you.

Really peculiarways it's OK to feel sad about losing the good parts of the relationship but this man is not a loss to you. Let him go or send him away. You will be free to find someone a lot better for you.

Flowers