What advice does she need? Red flags

[sirmione16]

A friend has confided in me she's seeing red flags from the man she's started seeing recently. They've only been talking maybe 6 weeks, he's quite possessive, has called her names if she doesn't answer the phone etc and has had a couple of scary outbursts. However he's also done the whole "I'm going to kill myself if you leave me" thing and she's terrified of that being a possibility and feels stuck. It terrifies me that she is a strong character (the type to confront and yell and have a go at a guy who grabbed a friends bum in public for example) but she genuinely already seems manipulated by him after such a short amount of time.

Who does she need to talk to? How does he cut him out without worrying that he's going to commit suicide over it? It sounds such a crazy question to type but I need to advise her, and I haven't slightest idea. It's scary!

I've told her to keep her distance, she's said she's "weaning him off" I told her that inevitably you're gonna say this is it, and no matter when that is, hell be the same - weaning or no weaning. I've also told her she's always welcome round mine, and Im always here etc. I don't know if I can do any more, I don't know who she needs to talk to.

All replies appreciated, thank you

Who does she need to talk to?

Nobody

How does he cut him out without worrying that he's going to commit suicide over it?

This is what he is hoping she thinks. Logically though, they have been speaking for 6 weeks and she doesn't need to take on responsibility.

@puppyconfetti

Ive told her just to cut contact, she can't. And won't. He's already in her head. It's not that simple. She does feel that responsibility already.

Nonsense. Is she vulnerable or desperate? Or is she one of these people who thinks she can 'fix' people? Because any normal and reasonable person would just block him and move on with their life.

Might need to be clearer, when I say speaking it's meeting up frequently, sleeping together, staying at each others houses. Not just a few phone calls or messages

@puppyconfetti thank you for your replies but I feel your naive to the situation I'm describing. Plus I've already stated she doesn't feel she can just cut contact. I'm not about to leave her in this situation, do nothing and tell her it's nonsense because Im sure I will sit back and watch it get worse and turn into full on abuse. Thank you, but please refrain from replying further.

Threatening suicide is straight out of the abuser's script. They're all the same, these controlling types and trot out the same old lines. If she can't or won't understand that, there's little you can do other than point her to the Freedom Programme. When she's ready she may engage.

Her boundaries are non-existent within a relationship context, regardless of how she otherwise acts.

She should break it off, and block him. If he threatens suicide by whatever nefarious means of contacting her (or if she is foolish enough not to block him) she should phone 999 and report that.

He is an adult. He is responsible for his actions. She is an adult. She is responsible for her actions. she needs to understand that (unless she is deliberately acting to hurt someone) she is entitled to act as she sees fit, and that does not make her responsible for the actions of others.

Sorry am I missing something this is a six Week relationship? She needs to run for the hills!!!!

She has no attachments to this man. There is no reason she cannot walk away from him right now and block on all platforms.

Women’s Aid or get her to read some of the threads on here. There’s lots of information online now about coercive control and emotional abuse too. Maybe that would help her see how she can escape from him safely

She's known him 6 weeks!

She hardly knows him.

Tell her to use a very basic amount of common sense and walk away now.

Anyone accepting this is damaged. You can't force her to leave him, but this is only going to get worse the longer she is in contact

Thank you. The 999 thing is really good advice, genuinely. Thank you, I'm going to tell her that. And please be gentle here, Im fully aware its only 6 weeks. I've sat across from her and told her that point blank and that she should cut it all now, but she won't. She's saying oh but he's so nice and we have such good times, it's all just new, I just needed to reply sooner, it was me. It's scary because it's echoing words I've heard from someone else who was being physically abused further in a relationship. I'm not crazy here, I know it sounds stupid. But I'm just genuinely concerned for a friend who is refusing to walk away from what sounds to me a really bad egg and I need to know how to make her realise. And theres got to be people who'll she'll listen to when they say yes these are red flags.

Agree suicide threats need to call bluff and involve professionals - as if it is real she would be negligent not to.

Someone this deranged at 6 weeks is special though - would be looking into Clare’s Law and putting a significant safety plan in place if separating.

Is it you OP?

OP I think that you were rude to puppy - who called it right. You have no right to tell her not to post on a public forum.

I would 100% agree that a grown adult 6 weeks into a situation like this can only either be vulnerable or desperate.

He's not going to top himself over some woman he's known 6 weeks. That's just a bog-standard abuser line. In the very unlikely event that he did top himself, it would be due to underlying mental health issues.

If she really thinks he is suicidal, the correct thing to do is contact the police so they can do a welfare check and get him to a place of safety if required*. Also, he needs to be focusing on his own recovery, not new relationships, so it would be kinder of her to finish the relationship so he can engage fully with therapy.

*Bet you twenty quid his mental health recovers rapidly if she tries this.
Tell her to contact Women's Aid, read "Why Does He Do That?", etc.

Re: scary outbursts. She should contact the police. I guess forces may vary by area - mine has specialist DV advisers who would be worth her talking to.

It may be worth a Clare's Law application, find out if he's got form.

Finally, be realistic about what you can/should offer. Keep an eye on your own safety.

In my experience, two boyfriends I dated in my distant and very distant past respectively, both threatened that suicide stuff if I left them. I left both times. Neither did it. They were just trying to manipulate me.

However a colleague really did do it. And sadly was successful. He told nobody. Made plans, left a letter beside himself. Just cracked on with his plans and was found a few hours later stone dead. Very sad. But since all that I’ve come to the conclusion that if someone tells me about it they probably dont mean it but if I was in any doubt I’d just phone the police. If she does that every time he threatens suicide he’ll soon get fed up with all the hassle and stop. Manipulative asshole bastard that he is.

Might be worth doing a Clare's law check?

For whatever reason and however strong she appears, your friend’s boundaries are low and she thinks this is what she’s worth. When I started seeing my narc ex, I was seeing a counsellor already who expressed concerns...I stopped seeing the counsellor. There’s very little you or anyone can say or do because she will only see the truth when she’s ready to.
You’re a great friend for caring about her so much, and unfortunately you may have to keep making the ‘leave him’ noises until something shit happens - and by that, I mean that he has become bored of yanking her chain and decides to discard her - and then be there to pick up the pieces.

I wasn't trying to be rude, I'm sorry but Im definitely not about to just sit by and do nothing is all and I'm genuinely scared and worried for her and what this guy may turn out to be. I really think she needs to open her eyes and I'm asking advice as to how to help her do that. I'm not too familiar with clares law... I will give it a Google but I thought there had to be grounds to look into someone? Which I don't feel I have... But if someone could clarify it all a little, I'd really appreciate it. Also, thank you for those sharing experiences, I'm going to show her them as I do think it'll be clearer for her coming from a perspective of someone who's experienced similar, such as the suicide threats, over just a friend - she can dismiss my opinion too easily iyswim. For those who asked, no it's not me, and I've never been in a situation like that with anyone hence why I'm asking for help. (PS I'm trying to paragraph but apparently doesn't work when on my phone)

Furthermore, I've been reading the comments saying she sounds vulnerable and giving it more thought, it may be more true than I originally assumed. She's just out of a long term relationship and found out her ex has started dating someone else, perhaps she's just lapping up all the good attention this man is giving her and that's over riding the bad...

Hi, abusers threatening suicide is a classic way for them to manipulate. If they do threaten to do it after/during you leaving them, call their bluff and call 999 (which is the thing to do if someone says they're going to kill themselves, anyway.)

It's actually a myth that people who kill themselves don't mention it beforehand. Usually they mention it to someone (this is just in reply to a PP's comment, not to the OP.)

The “good attention” is “love-bombing” google that as well.....and show her that.

OP it's understandable that you're concerned but telling @puppyconfetti not to reply was rude and goes against the etiquette of MN massively.

What's difficult to understand (for me) is how this has built up in 6 weeks. It would usually take much, much longer for the dynamic which you describe to be established. Is there any chance they could have known each other longer and for some reason your friend has hidden it?

Threatening suicide is of course abusive. No question about that. If he does it again then she needs to call 999. That is all good advice. For your friend the best thing would be to cut contact completely, this "weaning" thing doesn't make sense, as you know.

And yes, I agree that your friend is probably a lot more vulnerable than it seems. But she is still being very, very foolish.

Many years ago I was in a relationship like this. At around the 6 week mark, he began to show his true colours and I decided this wasn't for me and ended the relationship.
I had the classic suicide threat too. He also had 2 children from a previous relationship so I had the "yeah, you leave my kids without a father, that'll make you feel really good won't it? You look them in the eye and tell them Dad is dead because of you etc etc".
No adult can be held responsible for another adult's behaviour and your friend needs to know this. He can threaten and throw a tantrum as much as he wants.
It doesn't stop you feeling guilty or thinking "what if he does? but in weeks or months, she will see it was common sense and completely rational to leave the relationship at this point. If he does try anything, no one will hold her responsible.

I ended the relationship, no weaning, no slowly breaking off, just ended it. It was nasty and there were threats of violence. I got police involved and that was enough to stop the nonsense.
Not surprisingly, he got over me quickly and moved on.