I’m still in a fog, help!

[potpie33]

Idly reading some threads here and am horrified to see dp has done stuff over the years that are mentioned in other threads and mns think such behaviours are worthy of leaving a chap in o uncertain words.
I’ve been told he follows abusive patterns and found it very difficult to believe - he’s just stressed/ being bullied at work etc.
It’s followed by periods of nothing notable happening. So I think I’m mistaking things/ overreacting.
I did call a counsellor when he called me a fucking bitch and went
through my purse and queried why I had 80 cash and told me things are going to change in an ominous way. That was at Easter. Since then he’s been ok. But this morning we argued about whether ds(11) should wear a jumper. Realise now ( for the millionth time) that it’s best to agree with him or he will just keep arguing and escalating the argument until it gets personal.
I’m seeing a counsellor who is helping me get some semblance of self esteem back. My dd told me she’s seeing a counsellor at school to talk about him - she challenged him and said to him that that was abuse, and told me that they’d done abuse at school and that him not letting me visit my mum due to money ( she helps out) is financial abuse.
He’s punched holes in the wall 3 times - once because another mum persuaded me to stay out to pizza with the kids, and he was furious that he had to earn the money so I could swan around. This was ages ago though.
We are friendly enough - though I notice we only talk about his work. The kids disappear upstairs at night, though I notice if he is not there, they stay and we all bundle up on the sofa and have fun.
He sees the negative in everything. Even watching the bake off, it’s all sneery comments about how they’ve done it wrong.
I notice I’m jealous ( and surprised) when I hear my friends chat about how their dhs have taken kids out/ helped in house.
Lately have noticed odd thing- he wants me to do up the house and nags me to get the kitchen floor sorted. The samples I bring in are wrong. Apparently we agreed they’d be wide. So I get more samples. And now he thinks we should maybe get it sanded. So nothing gets done and I lose the will, but I don’t understand why I don’t just get it done, and why I procrastinate so much. And then of course he gets fed up because I’ve not got it sorted and I’m at home all day and he works.

I’m concerned that I know he’s a git and am trying not to, though I don’t actually want to hang out with him. What do I do? Kids are 11 and 14. I’m not earning enough to keep us. What about the upheaval to the kids? I absolutely have no idea what to do. Been together about 20 years. Could not understand why I was depressed and a failure, thought it was post natal, so been a long slow discovery. And I still think I’m wrong. Or overreacting. I’m obviously giving my biased view.
Sorry long post. Very unsure about what to do next.

Ultimately this is not about being “wrong” or not. It’s about how you and your children feel. From the sounds of it you’d all be happier if he was not around!

I think what carries the most weight to me in your post is that your daughter has recognised this as abuse from what she has been taught at school. That's so very sad, and god love her for trying to stand up to him.

I do understand how you have found yourself here, and how you are questioning if it's even right to question it. When you've lived with something for so long, it just becomes the norm, and you have 20 years of this behaviour and living like this, a conditioning if you will, to try and uncondition and accept in your heart that it isn't a good relationship and that he doesn't treat you how one person should treat another in a relationship.

Listen to your daughter. I don't mean to sound dramatic or frighten you, but I really think you are at a pivotal point, where she is standing there saying her family home and dynamic is an abusive one, and its gonna be really hard but you need to set her the example now that your eyes have been opened to it. I'm not saying do anything overnight, but maybe start by placing a call to womens aid, seek some advice, start putting steps in place to give yourself options. To make you and your children safe from further emotional harm. Best of luck.

He is abusive and your daughter is right.
I would get in touch with Women's aid/Safer places. You can do the Freedom programme /Triple R and still be with your partner/husband whilst on the course. You will be given loads of information and it will help you make a safe plan of action if you choose to leave. (Highly recommended)
He may go from punching holes in a wall to punching you or the children.
His anger is control.
You are being controlled and brainwashed by him and your children are witnessing the abuse and trying to stand upto him.
This is not good for them or for you.
If your best friend was in your situation what would you say to her to do?
Love yourself more.....abusive , angry control freaks are not worthy of your time.

Buy the book by Lundy Bancroft- Why does he do that?
It will open your eyes to abusive men.
Good luck.

Thanks so much both of you. I need to hear that as I am burying my head in the sand . Again. It all seems so normal but I’m now continually looking out for signs of abuse. It’s so subtle , but what do I do with them?
I don’t even think it’s conscious a lot of the time, or its conscious in the vague ‘I want to get my own way, ‘ not ‘ I’m going to be deliberately nasty’ kind of way. I think. Who knows. How do you even begin to go about leaving someone? I guess I’ll talk to wa. But that seems a bit overkill.
He does seem to be making more of an effort lately... damn this fog! Thanks for pointing out that it’s a slow conditioning. I’m sure I used to be funny and lively and know what I wanted. Feel a bit grey and empty. And haven’t had a shower in ages. Oh! Didn’t realise. Writing this out is incredibly helpful. Thank you for the support.

Okay, so let’s address the kitchen floor thing, because it strikes me as a perfect microcosm of what’s happening in your life right now.

You blame yourself for not getting it done. But what’s actually happening is that your husband keeps changing his mind about what he wants; you know that if you choose something on your own and he doesn’t like it he’ll make your life a misery, by being violent or arguing with you; so, to avoid upsetting him, you don’t do anything; because it doesn’t get done, you both blame... well... you. Does that sound about right?

Look for that pattern in other areas of your life. He has you paralysed; he’s terrified you out of taking any action on anything because it keeps you where he wants you: as his companion and a punching bag, a scapegoat who he knows will never leave him and on whom he can dump all of the unpleasantness in his brain.

Here’s something radical: you don’t need a ‘reason’ to leave. You don’t need to justify it by holding up concrete examples of his abuse. You can just go. Being unhappy is enough. But don’t tell him what you’re doing, because he’ll argue that you need to ‘deserve’ to leave, and there will never be a good enough reason in his eyes.

Take your children and go. Can you go to your mother? How far away is it?

Your daughter is getting counselling at school because of the abuse

Where is your "redline"?
Your DD is being abused - if only by being a witness to her Mother's continual abuse.

Please phone Women's Aid and get support to get out of this. This is probably your last chance to have a continuing relationship with your children, as when they get older and can get away they will.

You are worth it

Thank you London. Omg, that’s exactly what’s happening, in all areas. How did I not realise? It’s even things like bills - I’m ‘in charge’ but get yelled at if it’s wrong. Consequently too terrified to sort out insurance etc so when he was critically ill we didn’t have any.

But! He’s changed in the last year a bit since I’ll and since then he’s seeing a counsellor and doesn’t yell any more.
I’m not sure how to to leave. Family miles away, not earning, etc etc.
Just realised time! Thanks!

Do you own the house? How much equity?
Do you work? If so, can you increase hours?
If not, can you start?
Have you looked at rentals in your area? Have you done a benefits calculation?
Do you have family who could lend you a deposit and month's rent up front? Anyone who could guarantee you for a tenancy?
How high an earner is he? Have you looked at a maintenance calculator?

Thanks molly. It sounds ridiculous written down, yet day to day nothing much happens since Easter when he called me a bitch in front of kids. Dd is already planning to live abroad ( she’s 14) . I don’t understand why I’ve kept putting up. Well I do, I didn’t know what was happening and I’d lost all sense of self and self esteem. It’s got better...but I’m kidding myself aren’t I?

@potpie33 , you have name changed to Potpie33 .

Oh op your daughter is telling you it’s abuse and she wants to run as far away as possible from him
At 14 it is only going to get worse for her over the ext 3/4 years as she gets older

It is amazing what you learn from Mumsnet. Your daughter is right.

One step at a time . In the right direction.

People often refer to this situation by the boiling frog analogy.

The water temperature gently rises until you realise you’re in really hot water.

I’m in a similar position, Potpie. Is your counsellor helping?
I’d also go and see a solicitor to see where you stand financially.
Knowledge is power.

Please listen to your daughter... and how is your DS coping? You don’t mention him.

OP
It's not your responsibility of course but it makes the thread a lot easier to follow and therefore to offer help if you stick to the username you started it in. You have added a capital letter which means your posts are no longer highlighted.

I agree with PPs. Your daughter is leading you here.
She knows it's abuse. Your kids don't want to be around him.

It's hard after 20 years to walk away.
If you say he's abusive, he'll come back with "Ive always provided, I've never hit you, I'm stressed and tired, blah blah". Prepare for that when/if you leave. It won't stop and he'll try to turn everyone against you.
But you'll be doing the right thing by your children.

Ringing WA is not overkill..its something you should have done a long time ago but have felt powerless. You are not powerless and you need to dig deep and find your power. It is there, this recognition is the first sign of it, keep on moving forward. Ring WA, talk to through with them, they will also help you take steps forward.

He's got a bit better since he was ill you say? I'd bet good money on the fact that that is the only inch he will ever give. He will think that because he doesn't tell anymore, hes changed. So will think you should be grateful, and the other stuff will never change. He really sounds vile and I'm angry for you.

I held off saying this before, and it sounds really mean, but I worry that if you don't take this stand now, at a time your daughter has realised this is an abusive household, that it will damage your relationship with her. That in the long run she will see it as you choosing him over safeguarding your children. I know it's not that simple, but she is coming at it from another perspective. And it's no simple for her either. Think forward ten years. Which relationship would you rather have spent ten years nurturing? The one with DH or the one with your children? As they get older they may will further remove themselves to be away from him, rather than to put the distance between them and you. But if you and he are a package deal, the distance will grow between you and them as a consequence. Then it will be you and him. Alone. And if you're gonna leave then, you may as well get it over and done with and save your kids in the process.

Doesn't *yell anymore!

OP, I was in a fog for three years. One day my ex who had always been subtley abusive told me to drop dead of cancer in front of my kids and strangers in a park while I was pushing my baby on a swing. Three years it took me from that day to the day I left. I was constantly fighting with myself, as in between the shit we got on well. I think he has an undiagnosed personality disorder. It was staring me in the face and I was paralysed to do anything about it.

What I did do though was get strong, mentally and physically. The physical part involed serious strength training at the gym, which helped me be in good shape when I left him, but also gave me an hour of thinking time. I also started to open up to friends.

When my friend sent me the boiling frog analogy someone posted above, I knew she was right, but couldn't see things as clearly as they are. Your daughter has recognised his behaviour is wrong, now its time to put things into action.

First thing I did waas write a list of reasons to stay and reasons to stay. The list to leave was much longer than the list to stay. I also really observed everything and wrote an online journal. That way when I was doubting tings were really that bad, I could read back and say there were. In the end the straws kept piling up then one day, I realised I was totally done and within 5 days I moved out of the home with my two kids.

I am not saying its easy, its not, 2 1/2 years out I am happy but physically and mentally I have taken a battering. He didnt take it well, the abuse still continues at times because I have to have contact with him r/e the kids. Open up to a friend or counsellor, find your fight and realise you deserve better I spent years believing everything that was wrong in our relationship was my fault, that I wasnt good enough etc. In reality it was rarely me, he just liked to live a life where he could blame me for everything he perceived was wrong. Like your husband and the jumper situation. Its unecessary and its designed to make himself feel better by tearing and destroying you down.

While you are deciding how to do thing, eat well, look after yourself, exercise, journal and post here for help. It seems overwhelming and I understand you probably dont feel like you have the strength. Imagine in a few years time your daughter is in a similar relationship, or your son starts behaving like him. Only you can change the situation, because he wont. Good luck OP.

Sorry about the capital p! Am fairly new to this game and wanted to make sure I was anonymous from a previous post.
Thank you for your sincerity and good advice. The boiling frog analogy has hit home!
Have just been to see counsellor who says to keep nurturing myself too, so will take you all seriously. Thank you pudding for pointing out how long it took you. Was beginning to beat myself up for not being able to get a grip and get descisive.
Will have a cuppa and digest your comments. It’s been a morning!

That is a good post from @pudding21 .

Thanks ladies. Pudding you are right, I have been letting my health slide. It’s tied up in self worth. I’m just not pleasing him. Don’t know how to. Well I do, but I’m not super woman. Or maybe I’m just lazy and not trying hard enough. Reading Bancroft, thank you. Reading slowly. Lot to take in.
Thanks bottle. I hear you, and I really don’t want to be alone with him. The relationship tends to be me and the kids. He watches tv and goes to bed to watch tv. I go and say hello, but am frankly bored of trying to chat while someone stares at the screen. If it was me I’d say hi and make room for them and ask them about them. I know he’s tired and he hates work and I feel like he hates me. Maybe not. Who knows. But you are right it’s not healthy. Am just beginning to realise. Oh wow. Fog may be lifting a bit...but no, surely it’s me being lazy and demanding and he is depressed and exhausted. Whatever it is am realising it’s crapper than I thought.

I just don’t get it.
Tomorrow we are away for a week to visit my mum and dh is staying here. To the dd he is ,’oh I’ll miss you, what will I do’ in. Avery childish guilt inducing way. We watch tv but dd is at the other end of the sofa and when I sit in the middle she cuddles up to me. Dh doesn’t move, I stroke his arm and make a joke about cuddling but he just grunts and watches the tv. Later he gets out of bed to say goodnight to the kids and just walks past me. Not in an angry way, just in a I don’t exist way. Or at least that’s how it feels. The good thing is that he’s not yelling. This is the first time in years that I’m not a quivering wreck of guilt by the time I leave for mums.so it’s good right? Fog again!

Enjoy your week away !

Its good OP. Enjoyi your week away, and do not let him guilt you at all. My ex used to do this, he would never tell me I couldnt do anything or go out etc as he knew I wouldnt stand for that, he just stonewalled me or acted so moody I would try lighten the mood and it would descend into an arguement.

Have a nice time.

Ha thanks ladies. It’s a Bit unnerving!
Forgot to use my second name. I’ll never make a spy!