8-year-old's playground troubles

[BedraggledRock]

I've been thinking a lot about a thread on here last week about the group of school Gate mums who turned on one of their friends - something very similar is going on here, only the people involved are 8.

DD is very quiet and sensitive and has also had health problems lately so she's feeling pretty fragile. Out of the blue, her best friend told her on Friday morning that she didn't want to play with her or be her friend anymore.

They've been best friends since reception but this little girl has emerged as Queen Bee of the class, whereas my daughter is quiet and an anxious type. Its worried me ocassionally that she relies on this one friend too much.

She is the one who usually gets sent to tell one of the other little girls that QBee doesn't like them anymore for whatever reason. It happens regularly, yet still all the girls in the class clamour to be this little girl's friend.

I know her quite well as there have been lots of playdates. On several ocassion, including once when they were 5, Ive been quite shocked at the adult way she speaks about the other girls and the cattiness in her conversations about who she doesn't like and why.

Ive spoken to my daughter loads about why speaking like that is wrong and making her understand that she should not join in those conversations. All the while hoping that she's taking note of what I say.

Anyway, so now it's DD's turn. Extra distressing for her because it's her birthday this week and QBee spent the whole of Friday making sure noone else played with DD either.

DD was distraught on Friday night and has been a nervous wreck all weekend. She's worried nobody will come to her sleepover and she'll spend her birthday upset and alone.

Yesterday, we had to return home from shopping as she had a tummy ache and could barely stand. I'm convinced it was an anxious stomach ache.

On Friday she had to leave the classroom during a spelling test to take her inhaler - a result of her spending lunchtime sobbing. She's a very gentle person, she has a general lack of confidence which I am already trying to help her with and she is just not equipped to deal with this.

I feel totally out of my depth and it's taking everything in me to resist going round to this child's house. I know I should let DD sort her issues out herself but I want to advise her on what to do and help her sort it. My mind keeps coming back to the C, L, K, M and D saga when everyone advised grey rock!

I know this is something every little girl goes through, any pearls of wisdom please?

You need to speak to the school. This is not acceptable behaviour. The other girl is the dictionary definition of a bully!

That was my first reaction but DD's dad has been trying to reassure me by telling me this little girl is only 7, it's typical little girl stuff and it will all blow over this week.

I think though that there is a difference between a squabble and a falling out and trying to alienate someone and involve other people.

Also my DD is still desperate to be this other girls friend and wants nothing more than for her to change her mind tomorrow

Have a google of relational aggression.
Just because this is something that has always happened doesn't make it okay. It make it worse that we lose e in an age that will still make excuses.

Speak to the school.

Have a google of relational aggression.
Just because this is something that has always happened doesn't make it okay. It make it worse that we lose e in an age that will still make excuses.

Just have and it is spot on! It's exactly what's been happening. It's genuinely been worrying me how damaging this could be as these girls get older. I've had conversations with teachers over the last couple of years about this little clique and theyve always said that ultimately they're all great friends and always make up. I've ocassionally asked for my DD to be put with other kids sometimes to mix it up a bit. I've been waiting for it to be her turn. I didn't know whether going to school over one incident involving my DD was 9ver the top though

I feel awful saying this but it seems as though your dd is getting a taste of her own medicine as she was also participating in the bullying of other children in class (by passing on mean messages). I’m sure this stings even more as she is a quiet child, but when she participated in and facilitated the bullying and ostracisation of other children she opened herself up to it also.

Your dd needs to step away from this other girl, she needs to build friendships with others by treating them as she wishes to be treated herself. It’ll be a hard lesson to learn but she will be all the better for learning it.

Wow. This is extreme. We don’t have this at my kids school. Speak to the head urgently. The school SENCO needs to be dealing with this like yesterday. She needs to be dealt with. Bullying is not acceptable and you are not over reacting. Our school also runs special groups for kids that need help with confidence. Go in and insist on knowing what their plan is. If there’s no plan then start viewing other schools and find one that can support your child. Nobody should have to put up with that crap. There are tonnes of good schools out there that have excellent SENCOs and extra sessions for nurturing nervous children. Go find one. Bring out your mama bear. I’d be all over this crap and she’d be out of there by the end of the next week if I wasn’t satisfied it had been dealt with

@PinkyU - I see where you are coming from. I learned about this when we were talking about what had happened, that usually DD is the messenger. But this time it was another one of her friends. However DD sees it as facilitating apologies and sorting it out. Not joining in bullying behaviours. I don't think it's right to say that emotionally immature 8 year old's who think they're doing the right thing open themselves up to things and reap what they sow. All of the other girls in her class played with the bully on Friday, in exactly the same way, they're hardly knowingly being facilitators.

Thanks @donethinkin, that's really reassuring

While I agree that a meeting with the teacher is a good idea, the fact that you have known about this for a long time means that you were ok with it while she herself was still QB's friend even though she was part of the bullying and now the tables have turned you have an upset dd with a birthday looming. With hindsight, disentangling her from this girl should have happened before now.
Anyway, now your dd can see that this girl is not a real friend and can maybe disassociate herself more and more. It will be tricky, these QBs are like magnets and all want to please her. If she's unhappy they will all hover round and want to be the one to hug her, if she's happy they all want to play her game, be her deputy etc. We see it all the time at school and it's painful to watch even though we try to encourage alternatives. Also my own dds have suffered in groups like this. Hopefully your dd can strengthen her friendships with other children who are not part of the group. Are some of these coming to her party?

Just seen your update, ignore the bits where I have got it wrong!

Thanks @lexplorer
For the record, and I've said before, I wasn't OK with it exactly, I was unaware of the full extent of a lot of it until Friday.

The bits that I did know about ie the cattiness and when I've heard about this girls other fallout, I have spoken to DD about it

I have also in the past spoken to teachers about not encouraging the clique

However I do believe to some extent you can't pick your kids's friends or dictate to them what they do at school

To further justify, although I didn't realise it would be necessary, I go to great efforts to get DD to participate in the things outside school to improve confidence and reduce reliance on this particular friend

DD is prone to relying on one friend so she doesn't have the pressure to socialise too much. She watches activities rather than joining in straightaway. She hasn't participated in bullying - although being willing to be her best friend's nesssanger is unwise, but hey she's 8. She is known by teachers and other pupils to be the one who looks after the child who is crying, struggling or new etc. She didn't in any way, nor would any 8 year old in my view, have what was coming to her.

You need to speak to the teacher before school on Monday. A good teacher will deal with this.

She hasn't participated in bullying - although being willing to be her best friend's nesssanger is unwise.

Your DD has facilitated the bullying of other girls and is now on the receiving end of that appalling behaviour.

I’m quite shocked by the blasaeness of the adults behaviour. For all your DD’s sensitivities, she too was a facilitator of bullying behaviour.

This is a teaching moment, how she’s being treated is not ok and how she treated others was not ok too. She was/ is in a toxic dynamic and the school as well as her parents (your DH lazy hands off approach is inexcusable) needs to be doing more.

You need to talk to your DD. She played a part in others feeling as awful as she does now.

Seriously?

A similar scenario played out in my DD's class. Honestly, speak to the teacher, they will nip it and be able to monitor it. It will got resolved pretty quickly. Though there wasn't anyone quite as assertive as the child you mention involved. It's hard for you to influence too much as you don't see it happening, but the teachers should be able to, and perhaps talk to the class about acceptable behaviour and reporting it if its spread quite far amongst them.

Maybe ask to speak to the teacher with your daughter present so she knows she can trust mum to be on her side, fight her corner but alongside her, and give her a chance to put her side across knowing she is supported. That worked for us and has helped my DD understand I will listen to her problems and help her feel empowered to play her part in solving them with the right help.

Good luck, its horrid to see them so sad.

You need to speak to the head mistress and the headmistress needs to speak to this girls parents.

The class teacher also needs to speak to the class about unacceptable behaviour, what constitutes bullying (not just the obvious).

My daughter had an incident when she was about 8 - she was involved with a friendship triangle. One day she came home sobbing - the only time I had ever seen her beside herself. One of these 3 friends had told her that the family of the third friend all hated her. It was clearly meant to wound. We talked about it and I convinced my daughter to tell this girl that what she had said was wrong and that she did not accept it. Which amazingly she did.

I was always more like your daughter when I was young - always getting hurt by others - my parents didn't give me any support or tools to help myself. I wanted my daughter to stand up for herself the way that I couldn't and never feel disempowered by another's behaviour or words. I know this may not be appropriate for yours, but it's something to think about. This girl is a bully and she needs to be told.

Dd8.
We are currently going through similar.
It is now it seems dd's turn to be ostracised by her 'best' friend who happens to call the shots and is ringleader of this little clique of 5/6 girls.
Whilst I listened and empathised with DD the main point I tried to get over to her was essentially, what goes around comes around. I know she has been doing what this other girl asks and on occasion being unkind to friends.
I'm leaving DD to sort this out. My belief is it will be some other poor girl left out next week. Meanwhile I'm encouraging other friendships and hoping DD learns from this episode.

Thank you @needsomebottle, @spied and @rosabug- I am definitely going to go and speak to the teacher and think it's a good idea to go with DD. I really do want her play a part in sorting it out and would love to convince her to stand up for herself on her own.
And like you say @spied, I do want her to learn from it as well as now she knows what its like to be on the wrong side of this girl.

The thing is, this would be difficult to do at any time but at the moment it's a very bad time. She was in hospital for several days with asthma the week before last, she's also being having mysterious stomach aches, bed wetting has started again and as she's missed quite a lot of school and clubs shes on the back foot and confidence is low. It's a really bad time to try and teach her to stand up to someome

Can you get to school for 8am tomorrow? Seriously early so that hopefully you can see the relevant people before the children arrive.

In an idea world a friend of yours would meet you at the school with DD later so she doesn't overhear the conversations

yes - I think now is not the time to "teach' her - she sounds very vulnerable. Get down that school and get this minx sorted out. I also think it's helpful for your daughter to know you are angry and are prepared to be tough. We can be so fearful ourselves that we forget to make it clear that we will not tolerate it, on our child's behalf. So your response will be an example to her.

I grew up feeling no one would stand up for me or protect me and I think I'm glad to say my child is in no doubt I would do what is required. Not as an aggressor you understand, but someone who will do what is right.

Agree that your DD has been an active participant in this behaviour up to now, no matter whether her intentions were "good" she has been facilitating the drama and propping up the Queen Bee.

The Mighty Girl site has lots of good recommendations about books to help girls in this age range understand and deal with relational aggression.

I do agree that you should speak to the school, but I think you need to be honest without yourself about your DD's role up to now.

They are all learning at this age and stage and trying out different kinds of behaviour but it is imperative that the adults involved are prepared to recognise their own child's behaviour.

@worriedaboutmygirl thanks but I know my daughter and I know the group of girls. I am very honest with myself. And like others have suggested I am not blasé about this.

I am also not blinkered enough to think she is all sweet and innocent when she is actually a bully. She isn't a bullly. Categorically. Although some of her behaviours have supported the bully, yes. Which she now knows is wrong. But this is for no other reason than she lacks confidence and awareness. I have heard of her including children who haven't got anyone to play with, being the one asked to help kids who are upset or struggling. She sees her role as mediator which is misguided but it doesn't mean she is a bully or that I am kidding myself.

I often check with her and ask questions to make sure she isn't one of the ones dishing out crap treatment if I hear there has been a falling out. There have been times I have told her I wish she'd have helped someone rather than doing nothing.

That is her major shortcoming - not standing up for people as someone who is more confident or older would. But it doesn't make her a bad kid. And it doesn't mean she deserved this treatment as PP have suggested.

The clique involves 4 core girls (my DD included), two of them very strong character but in particular the main girl. The two main ones argue a lot with each other and ocassionally with other girls. The other two usually go and play by themselves or with others. But it transpires My DD is often roped in to be the go between.

They are not arguing 24/7, there are a lot of fun and happy times which means the toxicity hasn't been that easy to spot and has kind of crept in.

I feel like there has been a lot of negative judgments on this thread about my own and my DD's characters and I fail to see how those judgements have been made with the limited information and posts.

OP, no parent believes that their child would be part of bullying. All these things you say, that she was misguided, lacks confidence and awareness, is nice to certain kids, etc etc, - all of those things and more are what the other little girl's Mum would doubtless believe and say as well.

No, she didn't 'deserve' the treatment she has received, and it must be horrible and upsetting for her. But honestly, it could be a really useful life lesson for her. Now she knows for herself what it is like to be on the receiving end of this sort of behaviour. Now is the time when you could be helping her understand that, and helping her become a more compassionate, empathic and thoughtful person.

It won't help her for you to join her at the level of that minefield of childish friendships and relationships. Stop analysing them. Your job is to show her how an adult feels and behaves so that she learns how to grow into a happy and secure adult.

"Can you get to school for 8am tomorrow?"

Please don't expect the teacher to be available for an unscheduled meeting at 8am.

Turn up five minutes before the bell goes and give the teacher the salient points, then make an appointment to talk about it properly.

FWIW I agree with pp who said she was happy to tell other children that they were 'out'. There may have been reasons for allowing herself to be used like that, but she still did it. Now she knows what it feels like, she may have more empathy with those previous targets.

How's it going @BedraggledRock ?