HFA and fatherhood

[Headswim]

Anybody with any experience of this? I am trying to figure out if a man with High Functioning Autism (eg my partner) - and chronic anxiety - could ever enjoy fatherhood and also fundamentally be able to meet a child's needs?

I am thinking more emotional and practical needs. Financial isn't the issue that concerns me as we are sorted in that way.

I think the fack your questioning him ability to meet a potential child's needs kind of speaks volumes.

HFA or no HFA, if he's useless and needs a lot of prompting, managing and shivvying about now, he'll be fucking dire when kids come along and you're stretched even thinner.

It will do your mental health a terrible injury and probably result in severe PND/A.

Keep in mind that there is a genetic component and it's likely one or more of your children would be affected, possibly much more severely than their father. Could you deal with this if he withdraws from the family, by yourself?

I wouldn't choose to do this, knowingly.

I get it! My DD's dad has HFA. He's an excellent dad! But... and this is a big but... he cannot cope when she's really upset. He struggles with most emotional issues (hence why we're no longer together).

When she was a few weeks old, I heard him telling her to shut up through gritted teeth. It broke my heart and made me realise he wouldn't cope on his own with her, despite being amazing when she's not crying.

The second time I heard him tell her to shut up, I spoke to him about it there and then, and as i walked out the room, when he thought i couldn't hear, he said it again to her. My heart broke once more. He also admitted to shoving the bottle in her mouth out of frustration and it choked her - all because she was crying. She was a really good baby, so I couldn't understand how he could be like that with her.

When she was 10 weeks old, I had to spend 3 days in hospital without my baby. When he picked me up, he admitted that he hadn't done a good job with her and my mind raced as to what he might've said or done.

She's now 11 months old. From 3 months - when I left - he's had her every other weekend for 2 nights. In hindsight, I should never had allowed this due to child protection concerns regarding his behaviour when he couldn't cope with her emotions, but I had severe post natal depression and wasn't thinking straight at all.

When I was with him after our daughter was born, a female "friend" of his all of a sudden started visiting every weekend. Started flirting with him, I left, they got together (the classy assholes). The home wrecking whore is a nurse, so that was some comfort that my daughter would have support when her dad couldn't cope. However, I now question this woman's mental state because she always came across as weird, and to try and get with a man who has just had a baby definitely makes me question her mental state. I don't know if she thinks my child is like her own, or if she's going to start resenting my child, but either way, I don't trust her dir to her lack of care and respect towards my daughter and her family unit.

So there you go, a little insight from my personal experience.

Hi OP,

I understand your situation, my DS has HFA and it was going through the DX process for him which led my DH to conclude he was likely on the spectrum too. Learning more about it it certainly made a lot of things 'make sense'. Some relationship issues we'd had before having children made a lot more sense - mostly communication based!

Obviously you can't just say that all men with HFA won't be able to provide emotional and practical support to a child, plenty men without ASD appear to be incapable of it too. The important thing is to be aware of the potential issues and talk about them in advance. Much the same as you would if you knew that a parent-to-be had any other condition that needed taking into account when planning a family.
Babies are hard work, my DH really struggled with the crying as a newborn, but everything improved as we settled into a routine with DS. I should also say that he fell head-over-heels in love the day DS was born and went from being unsure about having children to wanting four. Now DS is a teen and although there are plenty of challenges along the way (and two fairly headstrong blokes who have communication issues can make for a lively atmosphere at home!), I have never doubted how much he loves his children.

I would say that you need to get into the habit of really communicating what your needs are however. This has been the hardest lesson for me. If you're flagging it genuinely might not get noticed and you can end up feeling taken for granted. You might enjoy this blog post petewharmby.blogspot.com/search/label/parenting I've found this chaps blog really interesting and helpful over the summer.

The main positive you have is that you already know your DH has autism in the first place and can talk about it. So many people don't realise until they're parents themselves.

All best wishes.

He's an excellent dad

Your post describes a both neglectful and abusive father who cohabits with a nutcase, both of whom you fear are a physical and emotional danger to your child.

He sounds like an appalling father. He might love her in some way, but he's an absolutely awful father.

for having to deal with that (and remaining so laudably calm).

Gosh, this makes me very defensive. Not all people on the spectrum are the same.

Having said that though, I don't blame someone for thinking 'should I have children with this person' because whoever they are, it's pretty sensible to think it through.

Unfortunately, I am unable to look back and wonder if I did the right thing having children with an diagnosed man on the spectrum because that would be wishing my 2 ASC sons away and everyone knows the reality changes when they're here, flesh and blood walking around with your heart in their hands.

My husband, like your partner, is extremely dependable financially. We will NEVER get into trouble and I know we'll have great pensions etc. We won't however, get new curtains until the old ones are rotting away, spend any money on the house if it's purely decorative or get the children new coats if they can physically get the old ones on 🤨 - the list goes on (heck, it's a struggle to get him to agree to putting the heating when it starts to get chillier)

I believe the crux of the problem with many people on the spectrum is need. Their need vs others' needs. They have a list of priorities in their head and more often than not, their need will be at the top (and their need might not make sense to you either!!) Therefore, in my DH's case, him not wanting to spend money comes before our need to be warm. His need for quiet comes before the children having fun (or indeed being upset) etc. This extends to most aspects of out lives. This doesn't mean he doesn't KNOW how to behave though, so sometimes I can point out his unreasonable behaviour and he will concede and change. He has even been doing it himself recently and I'm proud of him for that.

He is a very good father. But he has his defecits, just like I do. I have depression which mean I parent in a less than optimal way sometimes but I'm still essentially a good and loving parent. And who/what is a perfect parent anyway?

If you love each other, who else are you going to have kids with??! If you don't love him, have kids with someone else (or on your own)

One thing I will say though, if you choose to have children with him, it's more than likely your children will be on the spectrum and it will be fucking exhausting to be in a neurodiverse family when you're not.

It's desperately hard. And lonely. But they're my family.

RLEOM

WTAF! Your Ex cheated on you and abused your child but somehow you’re more worried the OW’s MH and possible behaviour towards your child.

Yeah, that doesn't really have anything to do with autism imo.

@RLEOM wow sounds he has been abusive as others say on this thread. I can't imagine how hard it is to co-parent with someone who acts like this. Hope you figure it out. The new girlf sounds no good x

@wasnotwasweregood thanks so much for your advice and support. Communication is so hard sometimes, I have to be so direct. He really prefers it but it's not my default setting x

@YesAnastasia thanks for sharing and sorry I didn't mean to offend in anyway. To give context I am 37 and he is 35, we are just figuring out whether we should be having children. I really want to and he definitely imagines his life with children but he is also worried he won't be a good dad. I personally am not too worried, he is so gentle, reliable and kind, but I do wonder how he will cope with the sleep deprivation. He is just in a very stressful job and his anxiety is very high right now, but he is making moves to fix that. We have everything else a child would need. My biological clock is ticking. I don't think he is responding that well to the pressure

Hear, hear @picsinred - exactly what I was thinking. It's depressing how many men are described on MN as 'excellent dads' then poster goes on to give an account that depicts anything but.

Ah that's more reassuring! My husband was the same, he worried that he wouldn't bond with this other person. It's the unknown and he probably finds it difficult to imagine.

As far as the need priority list goes, his job will probably come first in most situations.

There are a lot of things you will just have to accept but you seem quite understanding and aware already.

You will have to do most (if not all) of the nurturing and the emotional support (even for yourself 🤨) but lowering your expectations helps.

Sounds like you'll both make great parents imo - team work makes the dream work! 😂😂😂 Good luck 💛

Please feel free to come back to me with any questions regarding your children/relationship in the future x

OP I posted on your other thread about this and while I agree everyone with ASD is different and therefore parents differently, you have already mentioned your OP doesn't like children very much which I think tells you what you need to know already.

It sounds like your DP has alot of positives but the true test of parenting comes in those difficult moments when you are sleep deprived and emotionally drained. Even neurotypical parents struggle with this but my ASD father just couldn't cope and it made him quite emotionally abusive by screaming and shouting at us over non events. He also avoided normal family life because he couldn't cope with mess and noise and still spent the same amount of time on his special interests as before we came along. It left both me and my Dsis quite emotionally damaged. My mum always tells me "he does love you, he just can't show it" but honestly, it doesnt change the fact that it destroyed me as a child having a father who I felt constantly rejected me for not being perfect.

As others have also said, there is a strong genetic component and I have a son with HFA also so I'll give you my honest take on that. I love him but it's so fucking hard to be his parent sometimes. He's 13 now and so not only going through a difficult teenage phase but also coping with his diagnosis. It manifests as school refusal (which is my biggest source of anxiety), no personal hygiene, unable to do chores unless I remind him of every step, is very socially isolated and has very few friends and has been bullied, struggles academically despite being extremely intelligent so he has low self esteem, has issues sleeping and has reversed his days and nights (so the sleepless nights never end for me), refuses to come on family outings, annoys his brothers so they have a strained relationship and although he rarely has meltdowns, when he has them they can be frightening for me (as he is nearly 6ft tall). I also worry about how he will ever cope as an adult on his own.

Every ASD child is different but I have listened to stories from other ASD parents at meetings and they are all very similar to mine. I'm not saying this should stop you wanting a child with ASD, just giving you some food for thought about how your life will change and whether your DP would be able to cope with this (and if you could cope with the above on top of him not coping).

Read the SN children boards on here for a better idea of what it may be like for you.

headswim if you're worried about your DH and sleep deprivation, could you hire someone to do night-feeds a few times per week, that way you can both sleep, or arrange for the person to do some nights per week, you do the remaining weeknights and he does one say Friday night. Or the person can do all the night feeds if you'd be happy with that. No-one knows how long a baby or child will have sleepless nights so it's hard to predict in advance, but it's important that because you're sorted financially that you both realise there are other options available than gritting your teeth and getting on with it.

Autistic men have been fathering children since time immemorial, we or our parents' generation are the first that's likely to be aware that our partner is autistic and that any children we have with that partner could possibly be autistic. There are no stats to predict any odds, no-one knows.

Many autistic women are mothers, again in our generation and the one before, some have reached parenthood and have been at the stage where their children are in the assessment process and suddenly think hey, wait a minute...

You described him as man with High Functioning Autism (eg my partner) - and chronic anxiety
Thing is, they aren't two separate conditions, your partner's anxiety is part of his autism, it drives the more recognisable autistic behaviour, the more you and he can reduce his anxiety, the less his autistic behaviour will be paramount.
I'm not suggesting reducing anxiety can "stop" autism, it just helps in both children and adults.

My dad is autistic. He is not a terrible dad; not abusive or shouty. He was affectionate to us as kids. He doesn't make any effort to instigate contact now his kids are adults, but will reply quickly if we email him. I have never had a birthday card or call; that he regards as Mum's job (they live in different countries). He doesn't really know how to relate to us as adults tbh and isn't emotionally available. You would never turn to him in a crisis. But he is fundamentally a good person; he just doesn't think of that sort of thing. He thinks about work - which is also his obsession (works in niche science field that he has loved since being a kid; works 7 days a week, now in his 70s, will never retire). I accept him as being not like other people's dad's. If you want a good chat with Dad you need to talk to him about his work.

But not all autistic dads are like my dad.

Oh and if you do plan to have a child, I think your DP getting a diagnosis will help later on if your child also has ASD. My DF is undiagnosed, which meant that not only did I never suspect my DS had ASD, it took me years of battling with schools and CAHMS to get him a diagnosis. He wasn't diagnosed until this year at 13 despite him being seen by CAHMS aged 7 (where they didnt diagnose and stuck me on a parenting course instead). This led to years of pain for both me and DS.

You will find many parents have been let down by the system and told that the childs behaviour is because of poor parenting for years before diagnosis. If there is already a diagnosis in the family, I think CAHMS take this much more seriously (it was one of the questions asked in my sons ASD assessment this year).

@RLEOM
The home wrecking whore is a nurse,
Think your anger is misdirected!
Your ex is an abusive cheating arsehole, I certainly wouldn’t let him have my child.
Give your head a wobble.

@Bookworm4 the OP wanted to know what it might be like to have a child with a man who has HFA and this is one example. He's a great dad, but his inability to cope with stress and upset is what let's him down as a father. He can't help his issues. If I thought for a second he was going to physically harm my daughter, he would be seeing her via a contact centre or not at all. But that's not the case. He takes looking after her very seriously, and like all of us new parents, he needs direction with certain things.

But yes, when it comes to being a partner, he's an asshole. I've no doubt he'll do the same to her once the novelty wears off. 🙄

Can anyone link to the threads that were running (went to about 3 threads I think) about living with an ASD partner for the OP - as I am sure that there will supportive info within which could help.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3463341-Married-to-someone-with-Aspergers-Support-group-here-Thread-3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3524836-Married-to-someone-with-Aspergers-support-thread-4-replacement-one

I expect this thread will get derailed by the usual suspects as well...

I expect this thread will get derailed by the usual suspects as well...

What does that mean Haffiana ? I haven’t read them - just remember that they ran for a long time so thought might be good content to help the OP - maybe not worth reading?

I'd think long and hard. DH has HFA. He is a very successful professionally but to be honest the first few years of having a young child with him were disastrous and VERY hard on me.

How does your DH cope taking care of himself? Is his anxiety under control? Could he take care of you and a screaming newborn if he had to because you had a traumatic birth? How will he deal your hormonal fluctuations? How will he deal with your shift in focus and attention? How does he do with sensory stuff? Smell? Noise?

How do you feel about the increased likelihood of having an Autistic child and all that entails? DS had reflux like a many autistic babies do and he screamed so much I couldn't even take him in a cafe.

DH functions fine and so long as I am entirely predictable. This just doesn't happen when your sleep deprived and hormonal.

He got so agitated and flat out aggressive when the sleep deprivation got on top of him. This was from a man who everyone including me would have described as super laid back and gentle. You can't underestimate what the lack of sleep and predictablikity will do to him. He just couldn't cope. I was VERY alone with a very unsettled baby.

You say your finances are fine. Are you married? If you're not I wouldn't in a million years take this chance. What will you do if you are left with a pittance in child maintenance and an autistic child that makes working almost impossible? You really need to think this all the way through.

DH couldn't put the babies needs first, not consistently. He was a brilliant uncle in short bursts. He was a wonderful attentive partner before we had DC. He was an AWFUL husband and father through the first 3 years.

They are totally worth reading and a vital resource and help for those in just this situation.

However they get flamed and derailed by people who cannot accept whatsoever that posters are actually experiencing the issues in their relationships that the posters are desperately trying to share and get help with. And the sharing posters are desperate because their partner cannot see or understand their point of view. I say cannot rather than will not because they actually, genuinely cannot. Ever. Imagine how hard that is when you love your partner and you know he/she is doing their absolute best but their best still completely invalidates you.

So then flamers who do not experience issues themselves start piling in because according to them the experiences of posters cannot be true and cannot possibly exist as a result of living with an autistic partner/parent.

There is a perfect QED in that.