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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Advice on Court vs Mediation

14 replies

Kady123 · 19/09/2019 11:01

Looking for some insight.
In an attempt to summarise a long story, I split with my controlling, manipulative, emotionally abusive (never physically) XP 3 years ago, leaving with our daughter. He refused to see her for 10 months, before having a phased return to co-parenting. In order to keep the peace, other the following 2 years I bent over backwards re. visitation (ended up having her almost every weekend Saturday- Monday), and suffered snide remarks and bursts of abuse when I didn't do as he wanted.
Last year, after agreeing to my face, he withdrew his permission to let me take her to Spain for a 5 night holiday, despite my reassurances and promise to contact him daily. I attempted to discuss this but he ended up hitting my car- parked outside my house, and proceeded not to message me for a year (therefore not seeing his child) before then asking when he could see her.
After seeking legal advice, I'm a bit stuck. I want Residential Custody (Security that she lives with me, and that she can go abroad without his permission) and set visitation, but can I achieve this through agreeing on a parenting plan, then seeking a Consent order to enforce this?
Thanks! Confused

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Kady123 · 19/09/2019 11:06

A bit of background-
We were together for 8 years, never married, and his name is on her birth certificate.
He was taken to court for the damage caused but witnesses failed to turn up so was dismissed.
I'm also aware that our daughter deserves the chance to rebuild a relationship with her dad- however this should be done properly. My main concern taking to court for them to decide visitation is the fear that we'd end up getting 50/50 care

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fannycraddock72 · 19/09/2019 11:23

I went into mediation knowing exactly what I wanted to get out of it, I had to compromise on a few things but I’m the end I was happy with the settlement etc..

I did however go into meditation with the mindset that if we couldn’t agree on childcare I was 100% going to go to court.

Initially I tried to come to a settlement with minimal legal advice but when it became clear my ex was taking the piss, ignoring my suggestions for a fair settlement, and eventually threatened to try and move away with the children I realised enough was enough. After going round and round in circles for 2years I just told my ex that from now on anything to do with the divorce would go through my solicitor..when I got a request to meet to discuss the divorce I simply replied..’speak to my solicitor’ my solicitor could remove himself from the emotional side of things and deal with the simple black and white of it all.

Your ex sounds like the typical narcissistic controlling twat. I doubt he’ll take kindly to appearing to compromise/agree on any of your suggestions as it would mean he doesn’t have control over you, And certainly wouldn’t want his ego taking a dent!

Have you documented any of the emails, texts, conversations etc I noted everything down, saved texts, emails, how often I had the kids etc..

Do you have a solicitor?

Kady123 · 19/09/2019 11:29

You summed him up perfectly!
I have numerous messages, including conversations where it's evident I'm trying to compromise and he throws it in my face
I have a PAYG solicitor I've seen, who explained the process into getting Residential custody and the fact I can request they assign visitation as a non-bias entity, only taking the child's best interest into account
With re. to mediation- I fully believe it would be a waste of time- he doesn't put her first and will only do things to his benefit. In failing I could get the appropriate box ticked on the C100 form and go that way after all
I'm told the courts prefer you to try- so I'm wondering if I should do a session, proving most likely that it's not going to work for us. (plus, at £215 each he probably won't want to cough up anyway, not even if it means getting to see her once sorted)

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AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/09/2019 12:16

It is clear that this man is only bothered about his own self. You have more than enough evidence here to show a solicitor that mediation is unsuitable and you are right to surmise that mediation here would be a waste of time and money.

If you have not already spoken to the Rights of Women organisation I would suggest you make contact with both them and Womens Aid.

To use mediation is to subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Mediation can be and is ordered by judges/courts, as can counselling and mental health evaluations. They are tools in the abuser's arsenal to be used against the victim as often as he chooses. In order for mediation to work and to not make situations worse the parties involved must have equal power and must share some common vision of resolution. This is clearly not present when domestic violence has taken place in a relationship.

Mediation practitioners must be alert to the need to interview partners separately with specially designed questions in order to determine if abuse is or has been present. Many domestic violence professionals can train others to screen safely for domestic violence. To not do so risks unsuccessful mediations, at best, and increasing the victim's danger by colluding with the abuser, at worst.

A person who has been terrorized by an abuser is not free to participate in a mediation process with him, even if the mediator(s) assume or believe that they "understand". Being truthful about any of her needs or experiences in the abuser's presence or proximity practically ensures that she is in more danger later.

The mediator is left with a no win: either the victim's danger is increased, or she is not fully or truthfully participating, or both. The well meaning mediator may actually encourage the victim to feel safe enough to share information that could seriously compromise her safety. In any case the whole intent of mediation is lost.

To engage an abuser and a victim in a process that implies equal responsibility is damaging to both. The victim is once again made to feel responsible for the abuser's behavior, and the abuser is allowed to continue to not accept full responsibility for his behaviour choices.

Kady123 · 19/09/2019 12:25

This was exactly my issue with the concept of mediation. I can agree that in situations where both parties can be reasonable it might work well- but not in situations where there is only one compromising and the other dictating
The question is whether I do one session to confirm our unsuitability, to show my willingness to put our child first.
Not only that, he said mediation in one of the first messages he sent after a year- my feeling is it will reflect badly to the courts if he States I ignored his 'attempts to resolve things' (even though I know he has no intention to follow through with it

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PicsInRed · 19/09/2019 13:35

Attend a MIAM, pay the £40(?) ish fee, explain that mediation is not appropriate due to domestic abuse, calmly reiterate that point as needed. Smile and nod through their sales pitch spiel about the marvels and miracles of mediation, reiterate it's not for you, get form signed off, leave, apply to court.

I didn't get a mention or a 2nd glance at having avoided mediation. It was clearly not appropriate in my case and would have represented a huge waste of everyone's time except ex, who would have had a grand old time head working then refused to commit any agreements to paper.

You'll be fine.

If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Absolutely spot on. 👏

Nat6999 · 19/09/2019 13:39

Mediation doesn't work if there has been any abuse, you just need to turn up to get the papers signed for court.

Kady123 · 19/09/2019 13:56

Thank you both for your input
My thoughts precisely, I wondered if the situation was enough so that they wouldn't question that I didn't attend one
Did the MIAM this week... £96 to be told mediation would be more advisable, and supposedly people stick to the parenting plan more than the court order? Couldn't help but think she was trying to rope me in for mediation for the money.
She left me with the decision to either call her to sign the c100 form, or to book in a mediation session

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AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/09/2019 15:05

I would also consider talking to both Womens Aid and the Rights of Women here to discuss this further.

Do not embark on any form of mediation with your ex; if you have been presented with those choices I would go with signing the C100 form. Goodness only knows why mediation was at all given as an option to you in the first place; it is clear that the people suggesting this do not at all understand why mediation is not appropriate in domestic abuse situations.

Kady123 · 19/09/2019 15:17

Very good point. I would have liked a reaction more like that when I attended the miam- i thought she'd hear more about my situation but she didn't give much attention to the past just said it was for moving forward!
My gut feeling was to go straight to courts with the form for residential custody and the visitation, just didn't want any backlash Confused

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fannycraddock72 · 19/09/2019 16:58

I went into mediation for same reasons you mention..that it will look bad if it goes to court and I didn’t even attempt mediation.

You can attend mediation and be in different rooms if you feel intimidated by your ex..it was offered to me and I think they said it may take more sessions to attempt a resolution though = more cost.

In the end my ex didn’t even use a solicitor, (probably thought they knew the legal systems better than any solicitor!)and because of this we ended up in front of a judge to confirm we both knew what we were agreeing to because one party wasn’t represented legally.

Have you seeked advice from your solicitor on how mediation affects anything should it go to court?

I’m not sure how much contact you have with your ex, but one excellent strategy I learnt was something called ‘grey rock’. Don’t engage in anything other than details around pick up and drop offs if your child (when he bothers to have them). Any provocation from him ignore it, if you have to reply to anything simple yes, no and ok answers. It’s tough not to defend yourself and try and reason with these types but you really are wasting your time. Don’t reply to any emails or texts immediately, no matter how abusive or wildly inaccurate they might be, they are only used to provoke a reaction from you. Take your time and decide whether his message deserves a response. He’ll soon get the message that he can’t get a reaction from you and you get to regain your control...it will also drive him nuts!Grin

Soopermum1 · 19/09/2019 21:05

I'm in a similar situation.DV and my ex had a hissy fit when his attempt to use access to control me didn't work, and then didn't see DD for a year, without so much as an email asking how she was.

He now wants to see her, I am not remotely confident that he won't pull the same stunt again and leave her broken hearted. So I have refused access, for now. I have made it clear what the stipulations are to regain access, which mainly focuses around him getting help for his anger and mental health issues. He's still fighting about it, so no access for 1.5 years and counting.

I have lots of professional evidence re his mental state and the ongoing parental alienation of our eldest child.

I think this is different to sorting out permanent arrangements for children that the NRP continues to have a relationship with.

So, if ex ever tries to seek access through mediation, which he has mentioned before, I will only engage with a service such as a family therapy specialist, not a legal mediator. As others have said, traditional mediation is about compromise on both sides and works on the assumption of equality. In my situation this is not right for my child. If he decides to drag me to court, at least I can show I have tried to find solutions.

It's sad, but, at the moment, she's happy and well balanced, which is more than can be said for the older child who does have contact with him.

PicsInRed · 19/09/2019 21:13

You paid the money, attended the session, listened the the sales pitch. You've played your role in the farce, insist on their signature on your form.

Go with your gut. You won't get a fair and reasonable settlement from mediation with an abuser. Keep in mind, the mediators are paid their fee either way, successful outcome or off to court (time and fees wasted). Their incentive is to get you on the books to use their business services.

Kady123 · 20/09/2019 08:54

That does sound very similar to mine, a year without even asking how they are. How they can do that I don't know
So you are willing to go through the other channels before court? This was the dilemma for me. But yes I also agree that she probably saw the session as an opportunity to book me in- she actually asked for a decision by the end of the week or beginning of the next . Really?
Thanks @PicsInRed I think you're right. Did you have to provide evidence for why you didn't try it, or did they just not question it?

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