Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Toxic relationship with BIL/SIL - advice needed please!

26 replies

ConkerGame · 16/09/2019 16:11

DP and I have quite a toxic relationship with DP’s brother (BIL) and his wife (SIL). It’s really getting us down so any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry this is so long! I just wanted to make sure I gave the full picture.

First, when we are physically with them (nearly always at wider family events, e.g. Christmas, weddings, birthday parties etc.) they act in a number of hurtful ways. We always make sure we show an interest in their lives/jobs/holidays etc but they will never ask us anything at all about ourselves and will make digs if other people ask us questions. An example is when they had been talking about a holiday they’d been on recently and we’d all said how nice it sounded and then someone said “Conker, aren’t you off on a holiday soon, where’s that to again?” Before I answered, BIL and SIL rolled their eyes to each other and SIL said something like “oh yes of course, everyone’s far more interested in Conker’s holiday plans than ours”. Leaving me to feel very awkward and not sure whether I should answer or not or whether I should say something like “oh no, yours sounds much more interesting, tell us more about that”. But this sounds ridiculous as we’d already heard about their trip and the other relative was just making normal conversation?

They can’t bear it when conversation turns to a topic about anyone other than themselves (unless it’s to slate somebody else, including general groups such as “stupid people” and “poor people” Shock!) and I doubt they know anything at all about my job, my family or my friends despite knowing me now for a couple of years. This is hurtful as it seems like they have no interest in me or in getting to know me, despite me making a big effort with them and always being very friendly and open.

On a related note, which is more upsetting, they can never, ever be happy for us. So if either one of us is being congratulated for a new job/new house/sports achievement etc, they will just scowl and not add their own congratulations or even pretend to be happy for us. It really puts a downer on things, especially for DP who would love for his brother to be happy for him and to wish him well. Every so often if in their eyes we’ve had too much attention from other relatives, they will go off on a monologue that on the face of it is very “general” but is actually a pointed dig. So for example, say one of us has just got a new job and everyone else is saying well done, one of them might launch into a bit of a diatribe about how sad it is that some people just focus on work these days and how it means that such people aren’t good friends or relatives as they don’t have enough time for the people that matter to them. (DP and I actually greatly value friends and family and make big effort with both, but the insinuation is that we don’t).

This has led to us changing our behaviour when we’re around them, trying to downplay everything we do and never starting a conversation about anything we’ve done or have coming up, as it’s not worth the grief we’ll get for it. It also makes both of us quite stressed as we’re constantly trying to watch what we say and if we ‘slip up’ and talk about ourselves, we are ‘rewarded’ with digs followed by an unpleasant atmosphere. They also launch into these speeches and make digs at MIL and FIL so it’s not just us, but we do feel like the main targets.

Other family members either don’t seem to notice or pretend not to – nobody else wants any drama so MIL will briskly try to say something upbeat or FIL will start a new random and banal topic of conversation like the weather just to change the subject! But the bad atmosphere still lingers Sad

We only see them 4-5 times a year but we dread each occasion for a couple of weeks leading up to it, don’t enjoy the occasion itself, which is a real shame when it’s something like a wedding or Christmas and then spend the next few days feeling low about the event itself and about the relationship in general.

When we’re not physically with them they act like we don’t exist. So they never initiate any kind of contact with us, never ask us to meet up (even though neither of us have DC and we live 20 mins away) and never interact with us on social media. I wouldn’t mind this at all if they were just the type to keep themselves to themselves (and in fact we welcome the break from them!), but they are actually quite social and often arrange to meet up with DP’s other sibling and their partner and with various other family members (DP’s parents, DP’s cousins, DP’s aunts and uncles etc), plus they are very active on social media and are always talking about how important “family” is to them on there, but apparently we are not included in this “family”. This is hurtful as it feels like a personal snub. We have invited them round and do initiate messages occasionally but always end up regretting it as they come back with something negative or having a dig at us or someone else.

Last weekend things turned a bit of a corner for us as they were organising a big family event and we saw both SIL and BIL be quite rude to numerous other people (before it had always felt like it was mainly just targeted at us) and SIL was in a big huff about a group of people who apparently hadn’t helped enough or in the right way, but I’d seen these people offer plenty of help and generally be great guests – they hadn’t acted wrongly at all. It made us realise that actually BIL and SIL are both just quite negative people and they seem to dislike or have issues with lots of people, not just with us. It has helped a little to know that I perhaps don’t need to take their behaviour so personally in future as it’s more about their general nature than about their feelings towards us specifically, but it has also made us quite sad to realise that actually they are very unlikely to ever change, as it’s not about something we’ve done/are doing (although I’d always known I hadn’t done anything to upset them and have in fact always been very friendly and kind to them – it was more that they seemed to hate my very existence for some reason!). They do seem to have a particular problem with us though that appears to stem from insecurity, even though they have plenty to celebrate in their own lives (have got married recently, bought a lovely house, doing well in their jobs) - they seem to be living in constant competition with us, then judging themselves to have done worse and being annoyed at us for that(!), even though we have no interest in competing and are pleased for them whenever they have good news.

Has anyone come across anyone like this before and does anyone have any helpful tactics for dealing with them? At the moment we are fairly low contact but are planning to go lower by not initiating any contact. We would still have the 4-5 wider family events a year to deal with though and we would like to enjoy these if possible! I’ve really wanted them to like me and didn’t understand why they didn’t as I make an effort with them and genuinely care about them being happy but I’m starting to realise that I’m not actually doing anything wrong so I shouldn’t be changing who I am for them.

If I came across people like this in any other context I would just avoid them like the plague but as they’re family it’s not so simple. I don’t think “having it out” with them would help at all as it’s just their nature and it would also really upset lovely MIL and FIL if there was a big fall out where people were going NC.

Does anyone have any constructive advice for dealing with them? (and sorry again that this is so long!)

OP posts:
ConkerGame · 16/09/2019 16:17

Wow that really was too long, thank you if you make it to the end!

OP posts:
Drum2018 · 16/09/2019 16:27

I would simply ignore their existence. If you meet at these events don't even look at them. Don't ask how they are, don't engage in any conversation about what they are up to, how their kids are, where they went on holidays. I'd delete them from social media so I don't have to see anything about them. If they bother to speak to you at events be polite but don't tell them anything about yourselves. Talk about the weather. I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of letting them think they bother you at all. They are not worth taking up space in your head.

ConkerGame · 16/09/2019 17:12

Thanks @Drum I think that could be a good idea - so far I’ve been going the other way and trying my hardest to be nice to them but that doesn’t seem to work at all so why waste my breath!

I was hoping for a closer relationship but perhaps that isn’t possible?

OP posts:
ladyratterley · 16/09/2019 17:19

Why bother? Why would you want to have a closer relationship with them. They sound awful and hard work frankly.
I agree with Drum2018 just exchange pleasantries if you have to see them at events and don't bother otherwise.

Whatisthisfuckery · 16/09/2019 17:26

They sound like arses. OP you will absolutely not be the only one who has noticed or thinks this. I cast iron guarantee it. Just smile and nod, grey rock. Why would you want a relationship/them to take an interest in your lives anyway when they’re like that? Just ignore them. Nobody will like them anyway.

verticality · 16/09/2019 17:31

It sounds like you're reaching a better point simply by realising that it's not 'just you' - they're pretty horrible to everyone! Continue down that path and you'll probably find yourself eventually feeling a mixture of mild irritation and pity for them. People who are that insecure and touchy must live pretty awful, dissatisfied lives.

With the exclusion: honestly, the best place to be is not to give a damn. Keep up separate relationships with family members you love and care about, and arrange events without them. Be really careful not to bitch about them behind their back at these: it's more effective simply to ignore them and their rudeness. Others will see the difference for themselves; they don't need it highlighting.

I have a family member who tries to play mind games, to exclude me from family events etc. It used to make me very unhappy, until I reached a point where I decided not to give a damn. It's remarkable how little effect those tactics can have on someone who simply chooses not to let it bother them! When I meet this person, I'm determinedly cheerful and genuinely interested in their life, but with the lowest possible expectations of their own behaviour. So when they do/say that is toxic, just runs off me like water off a duck's back. I keep to my own standards of politeness and manners, and let them soak in whatever atmosphere they choose. Smile

Aussiebean · 16/09/2019 17:35

‘Oh sil/bil. That was a really negative/horrible/unkind thing to say. Are you ok? Is there something any of us can help you with?’

Then look at her/him with such concern.

Every time!

ConkerGame · 16/09/2019 22:00

Ha @Aussiebean I wish I dared to say that! The look on their faces would be priceless! Grin But I’m not sure the follow up tantrum would be worth it!

OP posts:
ConkerGame · 16/09/2019 22:02

@verticality thank you for your wise words, that sounds like very sensible advice. Hopefully it’s something we could actually achieve. Just need to keep DP’s anger in check when he sees them being rude to his parents Sad

OP posts:
Raspberrytruffle · 16/09/2019 22:14

Ignore them, cut there oxygen off. If the make a sarcastic comment just give them a confused stare and luck up your conversation with the other person as if you havnt heard sil winge or insult.just smile ignore , as mrs.brown says say that's nice Grin

Raspberrytruffle · 16/09/2019 22:15

Sorry damn autocorrect I meant continue your conversation and ignore bitch inlaws insult / winge

MrsRufusdog789 · 16/09/2019 22:41

You have made a good decision to not initiate future contact with them and have also realised that you are not the sole target of their shared brand of knocking people .
Try to feel sorry for them if you can. Their lives are a bit lacking if they get pleasure from the discomfort given to others.
Put as much distance as you can at the 4/5 family events you attend a year . Don't rise to the bait . Remember the saying that it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . There's nothing more infuriating to people like this than being ignored . Take your lead from your in laws who are obviously as bored with their attitude as you are .

BumbleBeee69 · 16/09/2019 22:47

I take great pleasure in ignoring people like this now. Flowers

Knittedfairies · 16/09/2019 22:54

Don't go out of your way to see them or initiate contact. Be polite but basically disinterested in them at your family events. Smile and nod, then move onto to talk to someone you want to speak to.

verticality · 17/09/2019 08:03

"Just need to keep DP’s anger in check when he sees them being rude to his parents"

There is a temptation in these situations to externalise: it feels righteous to have a right go at someone on the behalf of another perceived victim, when one really wants to have a right go at them on one's own account. It's usually a mistake. His parents are presumably competent adults able to make their own choices about whom they see and on what terms. You say in your first post that MIL and FIL are really all about keeping the peace, so their strategy for handling this is clear. Developing your own relatonships with wider family that simply bypass these toxic people is likely to be a more productive, less destructive way forward.

ConkerGame · 17/09/2019 10:32

Thanks everyone, your replies have made me feel a lot calmer about the situation. I think the mistake I was making before was to try to get them to like me/us but I now realise that’s probably not possible so avoidance is the way to go.

Not sure how this will work when either of us have DCs though? We would want to have a relationship with any future nieces or nephews but obviously this wouldn’t be possible without making an effort with their parents?

OP posts:
Ambidexte · 17/09/2019 10:46

They sound highly competitive and envious of you.

Also they sound like complete arses.

I have a similar family member and I avoid them as much as possible. If I do ever have to be at the same event as them then I ignore them or go "grey rock" towards them.

(One weird thing I found helpful in that situation was to think "channel the Duchess of Cambridge." Look nice, smile vaguely, be gracious and poised and rather impersonal. And be warm and pleasant to all the other people at the event. Everyone remembers you as the nice one and your BIL and SIL as the rude nasty ones. Plus it will drive your BIL and SIL up the wall.)

Ambidexte · 17/09/2019 10:52

P. S. The good news here is that they want to avoid you as well, so at least you shouldn't have to see them much.

About the future nephews or nieces... they may not have kids. But if they do then there is really a limit to what you can do. You will probably not be allowed to see much of them. Bear in mind that you would probably not want any children of yours to spend much time with such nasty people as your BIL and SIL - part of your job as a parent would be to protect them from that kind of thing.

AllModra · 17/09/2019 11:10

The first comment is pretty much what I was going to reply with.

Re nieces and nephews, I took it for granted that despite my brother and I never seeing our cousin, that we would have a normal relationship where we saw each other's kids.

This hasn't been the reality, he used to visit me but he and his wife are so precious and difficult, none of the rest of us in the family dare try with them anymore. Nothing anyone does is ever good enough and anything we do, say it don't do is taken as an offense.

We all just remain at several arms length.

It's sad, but it enables us to enjoy our own lives better.

Drum2018 · 17/09/2019 11:32

We would want to have a relationship with any future nieces or nephews but obviously this wouldn’t be possible without making an effort with their parents?

The issue here is that you really won't want your children influenced by these people and their toxic behaviours, so therefore you won't need to maintain a relationship just because kids might come along in the future. My SIL is toxic. We put up with her for long enough and then Dh had a row with her. He saw through her and hasn't spoken since. We both had kids who saw each other a few times a year. Kids haven't seen each other since the fall out. Our youngest doesn't even know they exist. Life went on and, truthfully, nobody is missing out. Our kids aren't missing out on anything as she was nuts so would not have been a positive influence in their lives.

AgentJohnson · 17/09/2019 13:46

*they’re family” is not a good enough reason to expose yourself to these toxic people.

They are rude and aren’t interested in having a relationship with you, ignoring them should be a no brainier.

ConkerGame · 17/09/2019 17:28

Thanks all, you’re all making so much sense! It’s hard to see through these situations when you’re in them yourself.

@Ambidexte I love the Duchess of Cambridge idea! I am now picturing them meeting, SIL saying something awful and Kate just politely smiling and moving on as if no great offense had just been made! I will definitely try to channel my inner duchess going forward! Grin

@Drum2018 that’s a good point, I’d hate for my children to be affected by them so will probably need to keep them at arms length too. I guess that means we won’t get to be close to any children they have, which is sad, but better than the alternative of having our kids be made to feel crap by their own relatives.

I really don’t envy MIL and FIL who really are stuck with them forever as they will definitely want to spend time with future GCs Sad

OP posts:
Mistlewoeandwhine · 17/09/2019 23:34

I love the Duchess of Cambridge thing. Definitely going to use it.

MoreCookiesPlease · 17/09/2019 23:46

You need to stop trying so desperately hard to be liked by these nasty people.

I have a toxic and narcissistic BIL and wife too. My method is the grey rock method. (Google this.) If they ask you any questions, just reply to their question with as few words as possible. Reveal nothing about your personal life at all. Don't talk to them about plans for holidays, or promotions at work, or places you've been to, or things you've seen at cinema. Just keep things as general as possible. Talk about the weather. Or talk about the household chores you have done that day, in minute detail. Starve them of their oxygen supply, ie their drama supply, which is you and your life.
On some level they are madly jealous of you. If people deliberately set out to hurt people by making obnoxious comments, there must be something very wrong in their own lives, they must be utterly miserable themselves. Just gently disengage. Don't give them anything to comment about. Every time you feel the conversation taking a turn into territory you're not happy with, bring it back to household chores or the weather. "Have you used Viakal for your bathtub?/I heard we're in for gale force winds next week!"

ConkerGame · 19/09/2019 08:16

Thanks @MoreCookiesPlease I didn’t really know what Grey Rock was but it sounds interesting. It definitely doesn’t come naturally to me as I’m normally an outgoing, friendly person but I’d happily do it to get these two off my back!

The difficulty will arise when I’m asked a question by someone else in front of them (this often seems to happen at family gatherings) - if I used grey rock in that situation I’d just be being rude to the person who asked the question! So that’s a trickier situation to deal with...

OP posts: