Negotiating with narcissist ex over contact

[Walkingwounded]

Am in the final stages of leaving narcissistic ex following years of emotional abuse. Bought house, hoping to leave next weekend. Have a support worker from Women’s Aid.

We had the conversation last night on contact ( DCs 12 and 13). Starting point for me: all should be amicable; 50 50 etc. Made a suggestion; he wasn,t happy, handed him the pen and suggested he put down what he would like.

From there it got really difficult. STBX obstructive and difficult; wanting what is in his best interests, not the DCs. I said, either we can do this amicably - or the other way is through lawyers. There’s no middle ground of us arguing but no formal agreement in place.

STBX went mad and into full victim mode - He was so hurt I had suggested lawyers, I am so aggressive etc etc. Slept on the sofa. I went to see him late at night, said I was sorry for suggesting lawyers which has clearly triggered bad experience for him, and we agreed to talk amicably tonight.

This morning he came in to the bedroom angrily for a bit before going out.

How do I recover this? A formal contact order is going to be really difficult given both our working patterns which involve unpredictable hours and travel for me. We both need the other to be flexible. My ideal would be that split is amicable and the DCs float between both houses according to their wishes and our work needs. But DH won’t even come to my new house. Has anyone been through anything similar? According to women’s aid, mediation is not an option. Also can’t get through to them it early next week.

Thankyou.

"My ideal would be that split is amicable and the DCs float between both houses according to their wishes and our work needs".

And even after he has put you and your kids through the wringer in terms of emotional abuse (not just to say further abuse stemming from his own narcissism) you still think this?. Its not going to happen. Your ex has not changed an iota. He will remain obstructive and abusive towards you post separation too and will in all likelihood use money and or his children as weapons to further "punish" you for leaving him. Given as well how he has treated you as their mother, do you really think he will want to be at all bothered about his children post split as well?

"But DH won’t even come to my new house".
Thank goodness for that, your new house should not be so poisoned by his abusive behaviour.

"Has anyone been through anything similar? According to women’s aid, mediation is not an option".

WA are absolutely correct, mediation is off the table completely when it comes to abusers. There needs to be a formal court based order in place re any contact and I would also think the kids views will be taken into consideration as well (what do they think of their dad?). And he will likely remain obstructive about that too. Stop with any and all apologising to this man or trying to talk amicably to him, he will never be amicable here and you cannot reason with the unreasonable. He will use all methods possible to get you to back down.

Thankyou. That is pretty hard to hear. Part of the difficulty is that the children adore him - he excels at emotional manipulation and has DD (13) completely onside.

A court order is the last resort if we have to go there. Do you see no way at all we can find an amicable agreement? It is going to be a nightmare if we have to go through court particularly since both our working patterns are unpredictable.

He will use any flexibility to punish you and fuck up your life. Surely you see that? He'll say he'll have the kids so you can work and then pull out last minute. He'll make sure you're left panicking and looking unreliable at work. He won't give a shit that the dc will be confused and disappointed.

He's been so abusive, manipulative and selfish you're divorcing him ffs. Do you think he'll have a personality transplant now and suddenly become dependable and co-parent amicably? He might need you to be flexible back, but he'll fuck that up to punish and control you. You might be able to come to a fake-on-his-part amicable agreement, but I guarantee he won't stick to it!

You're already giving him when he plays the victim card about lawyers. Do you think this is his new amicable dependable co parent personality? Or you being optimistic and naive because you want it to work so badly you're in denial?

Listen to women's aid! It's not their first rodeo.

...giving in to him...

You will never reach an agreement with him, he's a narcissist.

Why did suggesting lawyers trigger a bad experience for him? What is his previous bad experience with lawyers?

I think this guy needs to have a good look in the mirror and realise that even though he has been a total arse, you're still willing and wishing for him to be a good father and giving him every chance to be.

Just sort it out through court, you can't reason with people like him

Try and see if you Can get some free legal advice and apply for legal aid. As your children are old enough they will be part of the decision making through CAFCASS.

There has been domestic abuse so mediation is not an option. Ultimately it is your decision and women’s aid are there to support you. I wish you all the luck and strength for the future x

Thankyou. I hear you all that court is the only option and we may well end up there.

My problem is that the DCs adore him and he is the king of emotional manipulation. He excels at alienating the DCs from me - not so much DS, to whom I am very close, but DD.

I am very afraid of losing her, and if I do end up having to go to court, he will paint himself as the victim to them. 'daddy didn't want lawyers involved but mum insisted' etc. Dd has already said that she doesn't want to move to new place, wants to be at 'home' (isolated farm) with daddy and the kittens. Direct result of DH manipulation and at 13 she presumably has a voice.

WA said that emotional abuse not well recognised by courts. Plus it's all very subtle - emotional control, manipulative behaviour, not name calling or preventing me from going out. wA are clear it's abuse though.

Previous bad experience with lawyers was family business related.

I hear you all and need to get my head around possible court process. Am going to have one last shot tonight at 'amicable' discussion. Need him to agree to EOW (he is currently insisting on every sat night to Monday evening with him).