Daughter is refusing to go to her dad's (really long sorry)

[whizzkid]

Hi, I'm just posting for advice really and sort of somewhere to just get this out.

Daughter is 11 and has been going to her dad's house two nights a week since we split when she was 1 year old. He was abusive when we were together and was convicted in a case against him that resulted out of his treatment of me. At that time, social services required him to go to a couple of different courses so that he could have her unsupervised. He did that and we had no further court or social services contact for the last ten years. Our access/custody has always been private and flexible.

He has continued to bully, threaten and harass me throughout her life. It would be a cycle of him doing it then we might go a few months where he backs off and all is quiet and then it starts again.

He has always struggled with his mental health, and earlier this year contact had to be stopped, and social services became involved again due to his behaviour. Although he had not done anything to DD or in her presence, I was urged to stop contact. I did so, and it was several weeks before it was reinstated. This was difficult for DD as she has largely been unaware of his treatment of me and his MH difficulties and had never known a time where she didn't go to him.

Everything settled down again until a couple of weeks ago when he, out of the blue, began his bullying and abusive texts to me again. I strongly suspected that the behaviour from before had started again, so I told him contact would stop again. He decided that I was just throwing a hissy fit over him having a go at me (even though I have never done this before, sometimes even driving her to his house knowing that the messages coming through to my phone was more abuse.)

When I told DD she wasn't going, she visibly relaxed and seemed so calm and content. I found that a bit strange as she has never really seemed to not want to go to his. When it came round to the next time she was meant to go I said did she want to and she said she wanted to see her friends that she has there. So she went.

The next day she came home from school and said she wasn't going back to her Dad's ever again. She wouldn't talk to him on the phone. She wants no contact at all. This was a week ago, and she is still saying the same.

In the meantime I have had constant abuse from him. I'm lying apparently and I have turned her against him. He constantly deflects, turns everything round on me, accuses me of all sorts and generally is impossible.

Yesterday I had a long chat with DD to really establish what was going on. And we put together a list of 5 things that were her reasons for not wanting to go. The main one is that he is always asking her questions about me, what I do, what I talk about etc. She says he will never change and that there is no point trying to talk to him as he doesn't listen.

Anyway, we sent him the list as he was asking what he had done. His response was just more turning it on me, and DD was waiting to hear his response so I couldn't even not tell her as she hates being lied to (he has lied to her about a couple of big things).

He has dismissed her reasons. Calling it exaggerated and ridiculous. And honestly I don't know where to go from here. She is right that he will never change, she is right that he is impossible, and I am now stuck in the middle of not wanting to do anything that could be considered influencing her against him, but equally wanting to reassure her that he is actually the problem and that all this is unacceptable on his part.

As an aside, she told me he was pestering her to give him a hug when she got in from school and she refused as she said it's not a hug if he's forcing her. He messaged me at the same time to complain that she wouldn't hug him and that it was my fault so I know she's not making that up. I'm so proud of her for that actually. For seeing through it and knowing she doesn't have to hug anyone if she doesn't want to.

There is so much more but this is so long already. Do you think I am right to support DD in not seeing him because I know what he is like and I can totally believe how he could actually be emotionally abusing her. Or do you think I would be wrongly allowing my own opinion of him to unfairly influence her against him?

I think you've done your best to facilitate this.
She is 11.
It's been years and years and he is still abusing you.
Does she have her own phone?
If so then I would give her his number and block him from all of your devices.
One last message to him stating that she has his number and it's up to her now as she is old enough to make her own decisions.
Don't force her though, and don't give him her number.

She sounds like she has her head screwed on and you sound like you are handling this really well.
This is all down to him.
Let him wallow and let your DD live her life.

She does have a phone, but it has been playing up and now won't charge properly, so since all this has happened, she hasn't had it.

He is convinced I am lying about that too.

Before the phone gave up he had been messaging her, and she was screenshotting his messages and sending them to me, to get me to step in. Then she just began ignoring him, not answering when he called and not responding to messages.

This is not the first time she has come to me and asked me to step in, once she was at his house and was messaging me because he was continuing to ask her about me and wouldn't stop. I had to tell her to go to her bedroom and shut the door until I could get hold of him to tell him to stop. This is what I mean by there being more, its hard to include all the things.

I should add here that DD knows that if she ever wanted to message or call him she could use my phone at any time, as she did before she had her own phone. She also knows that if she wanted to see him or go to his on the contact days again, I wouldn't stop her.

He is threatening to get solicitors involved, and my worry is that because there is no physical abuse, she could somehow be forced to go to him again. I would feel like I had failed her. I have told him that with her being older, him using solicitors would only push her further away because she would feel that he is dismissing her feelings. For now he has said he won't but that won't last long. He is all about his "rights" and her feelings really don't come into it.

Her feelings do come into it.

Screenshot and email his communication to both you and dd, you will need to get his shit on file as it were.

Speak to ss (i would do this via email and cc school into it). Ask them for help i. Order to safeguard your dd.

Stop contact, let him take you to court, cafcass will take into concideration your dds wishes.

Make sure that you keep a record of everthing pertaining to this issue.

Your poor dd , maybe ask the school if they have a counsellor and if so can they put dd onto the list. She will need this support. If not ask her gp or fund it privately. But school would be my first port of call here.

Ps make sure that she and you have blocked him from your phones, only communicate when you really have no choice and do it by email only. If he is still abusive tell him he will be blocked from that too untill he can behave himself.

DD refuses to go to counselling. We tried to get her into couselling earlier this year through the school. I even had chats with the counsellor and the teacher recommended it. She would have had a place then and there if she would have agreed to go. But she point blank refused to.

This is mainly due to him forcing the issue, telling her he would make her go. God knows what he was saying to her to be honest. He was in need of therapy himself at the time. All I know is that she was convinced that needing counselling meant she was "mental" and nothing I said or did would convince her otherwise.

In the meantime, I have been working on mindfulness with her, and she even did a mindfulness course over the summer. I just constantly feel like I am trying so hard to undo the effects of him, while simultaneously being told by him that I am the cause of it all. My DH is furious about how he treats me, but has kept out of it for fear of making things worse for DD. As it is now, DH has said he will take DD to see her friends that she has near her dads and he is fully prepared to go to court to protect DD, so I am not alone in this, but I am really worn down and just want to do the best for DD.

Thanks for the advice. I am going to screenshot all the messages now and save them in my email drafts. I will have to see if I can get DD's phone to charge long enough to get the screenshots from it too.

I did think I would have to speak to the school. I am kind of worried that he would show up there and try to make her talk to him, so I will go in and speak to them in the morning.

Social services won't help. I already know they won't. The social worker earlier this year said that without allegations of physical abuse or her witnessing anything inappropriate, they weren't prepared to open a case. So all they could do was advise me that if I felt she was at risk of emotional abuse I should stop contact. They suggested mediation, or just waiting for him to take me to court.

This sounds awful. I am not in the “blood thicker than water camp”. She’s getting to an age where she is picking up on cues - mainly that her dad is abusive - and she rightly is pulling back. I think she should be allowed to make that call.

I completely agree. I always knew this would happen, but I imagined her being much older when she finally saw what he is like.

He is incapable of thinking of anyone but himself, and his approach to this is either blaming me, or just straight up dismissal and denial. Yesterday he actually asked me if I had nothing good to say about him at all and kept going on about the time and effort he has "invested" in her. Which is questionable really. He has only ever done the bare minimum, yet always expected high praise.

I have blocked him now. I have a text file of our messages, and I guess we are heading towards mediation and then court.

I just constantly feel like I am trying so hard to undo the effects of him, while simultaneously being told by him that I am the cause of it all. I know how this feels xx

Document, document, document.

Start a diary. Record ALL that dd says, when she says it, about her reasons to not want to go.

Tell dd that she is going to have to write to the court about her choices.

Keep every message that you have from him and stop contact if she doesn't want to go. At her age her wishes will be taken into consideration although not given total weight. However if you have evidence of emotional abuse going back years that will strengthen her point.

Your poor daughter is a casualty of the belief that any father is better than no father. She would have been better off if he had never started contact with her after he was convicted of abusing you.

I guess we are heading towards mediation and then court, maybe look in to shuttle mediation as it is not advisable to attend regular mediation with an abuser. Unless of course you feel strong enough to do so. The issue with regular mediation with an abuser is that they tend to use it as an opportunity to continue to abuse.

From the age of 8 children have a voice. At 11 she is more than capable of expressing her wishes!
I would go and see a solicitor just to get some advise.
I simpathise with you I really do, I've had 3 years of abuse and and expecting many more! The never ending mind games and belittling, I suspect your daughter knows there's something off with him. My children know my ex isn't quite right/normal and their much much younger.