Loveless Marriage - Stay or go - what is best for kids?

[Losingmygoddammmind]

Hi everyone, first post, a long time lurker here :-)

I share a similar story to lots of people on here, and I slowly feel like I’m losing my mind in a state of permanent indecision over what is best to do in my situation...is it better to stay in a loveless and sexless marriage for the sake of the kids (and defer my own happiness until they are older) or leave for the sake of the kids (to hopefully find a healthy relationship to model what healthy love looks like)....

I am 36, been married 9 years, 2DCs (7&4). I have been pretty miserable on and off for the past 6 years although we have a great life on paper (great house, good jobs, plenty of holidays). I can’t pin point exactly how the misery started but I think deep down I know we have always been incompatible, and I think those differences have become more and more obvious and pronounced as the years have gone on... after a lot of soul searching over the last couple of years I think I married him because he was a ‘good man’ ie decent job, would never cheat, not lazy around the house, etc. There was an initial spark but never much physical attraction and the sex pretty much died to next to nothing after a year or two. I consoled myself with thinking I could gone on because he was a ‘good man’ and a great father but I think the last two years I’m really starting to lose my mind over it!

I think I reached rock bottom a few years ago when my youngest was about 18mths old, I was just completely numb. Not angry, not sad, just utterly numb. I even felt that way about the kids sometimes (which I hate myself for now). After a holiday 2 years ago where things kind of came to a head we discussed how I felt about everything, and we decided to try marriage counselling. The councillor seemed to side with him (he played the victim totally) and when we had a session on our own she kind of told me to leave him, I found the whole thing a bit weird and unhelpful really! In hindsight I felt like everyone was forcing me to make a decision I wasn’t ready to make yet.

I decided to really give it another go and things were better for a while, he stopped being as miserable and robotic and tried to improve things in the bedroom department (he has premature ejactulation issues so thing are never going to be dynamite in that respect) but it’s all fallen by the wayside now and we are back to him basically ignoring me the majority of the time, working away all the time, being a miserable fun sponge and making zero effort in the bedroom.

I know what the answer is..leave. But it just feels so unfair on the kids, I feel like i’m making the decision to only see my kids 50% of the time (he would fight me in court if I suggested anything less) and that kind of kills me.

One thing that really make me stop and think a few days ago was when I was chatting with my 7yr old DS and we were talking about how much we loved each other then he said “daddy doesn’t love you”, I said “why do you say that” and he said “because he always shouts at you” - wow kids really do pick up on stuff!!! (He isn’t abusive btw! Just miserable) It really made me stop and think am I modelling a terrible version of love for my kids?

Apologies for the rant, I just feel like i’m going around the bend with it all? He’s essentially a decent man, good dad, nice enough apart from being grumpy/miserable why can’t I just make myself love him? Argh!!

Thanks xxxx

Hi, I am in a very similar situation to you, but am now trying something which I am hoping will make it possible to stay living together and not go insane - I told my partner I needed to be able to sleep with and go on dates with other people (and he can as well if he wants). Logistically it has proved very tricky to actually make it happen but even knowing I had that freedom helped massively. Like you I want to stay living together in order to not have to only see my son half the time, and my partner is a great co-parent, but we are not in a proper romantic sexual relationship and I really need proper intimacy. Anyway don't know if this is something that could work for you but thought I would share my experience in case it's helpful. It's not been long for me (a few months) but it's made a huge difference psychologically. Good luck x

I know exactly how you're feeling. No advice as I haven't managed to leave myself but I'm here to chat if you need to talk to anyone.

Have you talked to him recently? Why is he miserable? Has he always been miserable?

This isn't the 1950s, you don't have to live with someone you don't like. You can drift along with this man for the next 10 years or start again. The kids are a tricky issue, they can get over a divorce quite well but are you prepared to split their care?

I could have written most of your post, almost word for word some of it.

I stuck it out as I didn't want to break my family up. But ultimately I just became more and more unhappy and downtrodden and realised it's a poor model of a relationship and children are likely to follow their parents relationship, which scared me as they had only seen daddy sleeps on the sofa and mummy sleeps upstairs. They never saw any physical contact or affection between us.

I started divorce proceedings earlier this year. I couldn't take it anymore. You only have one life and being miserable knowing you're with the wrong person is no way to live.

It’s a tricky decision if you think care will be split. How would he react to the open relationship question as described above? Would you be able to do this? Would you be ok him doing it?

If you leave, it’s not all happy ever afters.
It’s often blended families and difficult times.

Tough one.

I was going to suggest what @mswales said. Could you have an open relationship..?? Would he let you meet other men ?? Also, if he has an PE problem has he not sought advice or treatment for it..??

Better to be apart than to be so badly accompanied and or together in abject misery.

He is not a good dad if he treats you as their mother like this. Women in poor relationships often write such when they also can think of nothing else positive to write about their man.

Your 7 year old in particular is already picking up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken at home. He is a smart kid.

When marriages are angry, conflicted, or terribly mediocre, parents often default to staying together for the purported sake of the children. I wonder whose sake it’s really for. As our children grow older, they tend to replicate relationships similar to what their parents modeled. As parents we’d never say we want our children to suffer or struggle in their relationships. Yet that’s the greater likelihood. It’s not what we say, but what we do that matters. Telling our children they deserve healthy, respectful, and loving partnerships isn’t taken to heart if we don’t have the courage to live up to our own words. What we model for them is very much what we might expect for them in their future relationships. From this perspective we might question the sincerity of the expression “for the sake of the children.”

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they currently learning here from the two of you?. Do not continue to teach your children that a loveless marriage could well become their norm too. Unloving or conflicted marriages often follow a lineage as they are passed down from generation to generation. And so the cycle continues. Is this what we really wish for our children? It is much more challenging to come to terms with our own circumstances and face our fears than it is to hide behind them as we stay together “for the kids.”

"I know what the answer is..leave. But it just feels so unfair on the kids, I feel like i’m making the decision to only see my kids 50% of the time (he would fight me in court if I suggested anything less) and that kind of kills me".

You've already stated what the answer is. 50% too is a starting point.

Its far more unfair to the kids for you to stay and be a martyr in a loveless marriage because of them. They are certainly not going to say "thanks mum" to you for doing that, they could instead accuse you of being weak and putting him before them. Your own relationship as a result could be damaged too.

Do you really think that such a man is at all bothered about his children anyway?. I would say not and he could in all likelihood use them as punishment at you for actually having the gall to leave him (because he sees himself as a perfect specimen of man). All he seems to care about is his own self and getting his needs met (i.e. having you around as his cook, cleaner and bottlewasher). I doubt also very much that he will at all make any aspect of you separating from him at all straight forward (again as punishment to you for leaving him).

Joint counselling with such a person was a non starter in any event given how easily he manipulated that person. If counselling is to be considered going forward, go on your own. It may be an idea for you to talk to the Rights of Women organisation.

You're 36 so not old and you are a long time dead after all. Make your 37th year on this planet a better one not just for you but for your kids too. Addressing your fears properly about him and separating will help with this process.

Oh, and I suggested opening up the marriage. ExH was horrified and said it was weird and he only wanted me.

Funny how after our split (and still living together) I found a second phone hidden in the bottom of his workbag..

Attila - agree. I lived in a very cold and angry house as a child and it has shaped everything in my relationship history. I never saw warmth or much love, just drama, rows, gaslighting, stonewalling and apathy. As a young girl growing up, I thought this was normal behaviour and that men were just like this.

In your particular situation I would leave I think. Feeling nothing/numbness is really worrying. Would he actually go for 50/50 in reality if you split? Could he commit to that with work? Could he just be saying he'd go for joint custody to keep you?
It's a tough one but you're very young to stay in a marriage like that.

Thank you so much for all your responses, it’s really given me a lot of food for thought and it’s reassuring that i’m not just losing my mind!

It’s so true what you say about modelling behaviour, I never really thought about it but his parents are utterly miserable together and by all accounts always have been - no wonder he thinks this is normal!! My parents split when I was young and my mum when on to have a warm loving marriage with my stepdad, they are still so in love almost 30 years later so I definitely think you want what you see growing up. I feel horrified to think the kids will end up thinking that it’s normal to hate each other like he obviously thinks about his own parents! Wow that really has been a lightbulb moment right there!!!

I have suggested an open marriage in the past but he absolutely would not accept that. Which is frustrating as I believe the lack of a satisfying sexual relationship is probably one of the root causes of the total lack of connection/affection. He has been referred twice over the last 10 years for his PE issues but literally gave up at the first appointment last time, he seems to find any excuse not to own it or deal with it! I think part of me died last time he went through the motions of getting help and discharged himself after the first appt (only about 1 yr ago).

He wouldn’t accept anything less than 50:50 custody, and I couldn’t deny it to him he has always been a good dad. I don’t need his money so i’m not worried from that perspective we have both contributed roughly the same to the marriage and earn the same so I don’t believe him wanting 50:50 would be money motivated. However he does work away quite a lot and it’s not a regular day (some weeks nothing others 4 days away) so he couldn’t commit to a regular schedule. It just means I would get more time with the children when he couldn’t have them which i’m not going to argue with! (Obvs we would have to have some arrangement regarding money if it did turn out to be irregular like this).

He has always been a misery guts, we have had quite a lot of bad news/life events over the last 4/5 years and it’s only pushed us further apart but fundamentally his default is miserable, robotic, emotionally unavailable and controlling (I don’t let him control me iyswim but he has that kind of temperament - if he was with a weaker person he would walk all over them).

I really liked the comment about making my 37th year the best yet, you are totally right I am young, at this point I seriously don’t care if I ever live with another man again! I just want to do the right thing by the kids and maybe the default of staying together for the kids is actually not the kindest thing I can do for them!

I just need to find my lady balls now.... we have a few holidays and events planned that I can’t get out of over the next couple of months so I can’t do anything immediately but I plan on using this time to collect and copy paperwork, etc when he’s away with work, I can imagine all that will suddenly go missing if I told him now!

Thanks again everyone xxxxxx

I could have wrote this post exactly the same 1 year ago. We'd have wonderful holidays yet I'd feel numb, sad then guilty.
After a lot of soul-searching and being honest with myself/us we split up.
12 months later, we co-parent amicably and I've got a new relationship which has highlighted exactly what I was missing and needed.
Don't think you're selfish, happy mum, happy DCs. Feel like my life is beginning again and it feels great. Yes it's brave and takes some guts but once you put the wheels in motion you'll be surprised how much strength you have.

Hi losing

re your comments in quote marks:-
"He wouldn’t accept anything less than 50:50 custody, and I couldn’t deny it to him he has always been a good dad. I don’t need his money so i’m not worried from that perspective we have both contributed roughly the same to the marriage and earn the same so I don’t believe him wanting 50:50 would be money motivated".

Again how is he a good dad to you if he treats you and in turn your kids like this?. He is not a good father to his children and when he is at home he is miserable and grumpy. They see all that and you cannot fully protect them from this either if you are all under the same roof?.

Do you think that a man who has such an irregular work pattern would at all want 50/50 access arrangements or is that you supposing he would?. He may well cite 50/50 but that could be said by him also to get back at you as a form of punishment for leaving him. Such men can and do use the kids here as weapons against the mother. And do not tell him that you do not need money. Any money in terms of maintenance is primarily for your kids benefit; you should receive regular sums of money for them. He after all is financially responsible for them too.

Re your comment:-
"He has always been a misery guts, we have had quite a lot of bad news/life events over the last 4/5 years and it’s only pushed us further apart but fundamentally his default is miserable, robotic, emotionally unavailable and controlling (I don’t let him control me iyswim but he has that kind of temperament - if he was with a weaker person he would walk all over them)."

And that as well is also why you should not stay with him.
You may think yourself as a strong person, well on the outside you may be but on the inside he knows your insecurities all too well in terms of how to control and otherwise manipulate you. Inadequate and otherwise abusive men like your H like supposedly strong women to bring down because they see them as a challenge. Do not for one second think you are or have been at all immune somehow to his manipulation and or otherwise controlling aka abusive behaviours. Your children also pick up on this from him too.

Do find your lady balls and start planning a new life without him in it day to day!. Do make your 37th year on Planet Earth a better one than your 36th year on it. I would also seek out legal advice because knowledge here is power too and find a Solicitor who is well versed in the ways of such men.

Thanks guys, lots to think about and you have been really helpful, I’m feeling much more positive about it and my lady balls are growing by the minute! Xxx