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Original poster

Can men change?

61 replies

TreacleToes79 · 28/07/2019 21:56

I know that we are constantly told that you can’t change a person but I’m wondering how true that is in practice? Or more specifically, do some men behave better for certain partners?

For example:

  1. Imagine a scenario in which a man is with a passive partner who he doesn’t particularly love. He can be cruel, selfish and verbally aggressive with her. They split up and he meets someone else who is not passive. They clash a bit but she sticks up for herself and there appears to be a mutual respect there that perhaps he didn’t have with the first partner. Because he’s happier he’s less selfish, never cruel and has fewer outbursts. Is this a possible scenario?
  1. Imagine a different relationship in which the guy is quite insecure at heart and makes his (more attractive) girlfriend feel like she’s on the back foot the whole time by trying to make her jealous and worried about his feelings for other women. She is far too concerned about pleasing his every whim and he takes full advantage of that. He then meets someone else who he’s really blown away by and stops all of these silly tactics because he knows the new girlfriend would walk away if he tried to make her jealous. Again, is this possible or would he never change like that?

Thanks for reading and for your thoughts on this.

OP posts:
lifebegins50 · 29/07/2019 16:20

I have known men and women to grow up and change their ways to become more of a positive& thoughtful partner.

However I agree an abusive person doesn't seem capable of change and current thinking is that there are physical differences in the brain which causes the individual to be abusive.Lack of empathy never appears if an individual doesn't have it. They may fake empathy (repetitive statements that don't sound sincere) but it is never real.

Abusers usually have an agenda and can adjust their approaches to suit the target. They can play the long game.
Once the target is commited then the mask falls off.

MonChatEstMagnifique · 29/07/2019 16:27

No, men like this don't change. Some women think they are the one to make them change but they are deluded. If a man is capable of abusing one woman, they will eventually abuse the next.

sunshinesupermum · 29/07/2019 16:28

No.

sittingonacornflake · 29/07/2019 16:48

Gosh reading about the family love bombing is scary. I've never heard of it.

Pinkout · 29/07/2019 17:11

Everyone can change if they really want to, you don’t just have to accept the fact you’re an arsehole and never attempt to change it.

I cannot abide excuse makers. ‘Oh I’m an arsehole because I had an abusive childhood’. No, you’re just an arsehole.

Pinkbonbon · 29/07/2019 17:18

Yeah but sociopaths and narcissists ect... can't just stop being that way. Anymore than a zebra can become a horse.

AgentJohnson · 29/07/2019 17:19

Being an arsehole is a choice and given that these men have form for looking for ‘permission’ to be shits, I would expect history to repeat itself.

Not taking responsibility for your behaviour increases the probability of history being repeated.

Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 19:06

The second scenario was me and my ex-boyfriend. We were friends for a few months before we got together and I was his first proper girlfriend, who he lost his virginity to. He’s a really funny guy and very intelligent but not conventionally good looking. I think he felt insecure about that and he used to ‘keep me on my toes’ by making out other women were interested in him when, in retrospect, they probably weren’t. He used to try to make me jealous and did ridiculous things like...

When I went on holiday with him he made out that his Mum wouldn’t like the idea of him being with a girl so he insisted that we couldn’t be in any photos together. She wouldn’t have minded remotely!!

Another time he went on a TV programme and, when asked, said he was single. We had been together for almost 3 years at that point.

Eventually he broke up with me and got together with his new girlfriend. This was over 15 years ago and they are very happily married with children. I know them very well as, after time, he became one of my best friend and they are our closest couple friends. We go on holiday with them, etc.

The new girlfriend, now wife, didn’t put up with any of his nonsense. I suspect he knew that she would just walk away if he pulled any of that crap.

So that is why I feel like I am blaming myself. If I had been more assertive, had higher self esteem, etc, then maybe we would still be together...???

OP posts:
Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 19:12

The first situation is my best friend’s relationship. She’s very attracted to a guy who has a very laid back ex. The ex basically did whatever he wanted all of the time. As I say, he was sometimes cruel, selfish and aggressive with his ex. My friend wants to pursue a relationship with him but she’s a complex character. Outwardly she seems kind, sweet, loving, with lots of empathy and understanding for everyone else. I think that’s why this man is attracted to her. Inside she has a steely core. She can be feisty and independent. She’s brave, strong and determined. I’m wondering how things will pan out with this guy? I saw how my ex changed with his new girlfriend. I’m wondering if this guy, who liked to be in control and dominate his ex, will be able to have a relationship with my friend. Maybe he’ll step up to the mark like my ex did? Maybe he won’t be able to cope with my friend.

OP posts:
Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 19:14

To clarify, he was only verbally aggressive. Never physically aggressive.

Also to add that they have a lot of fun together, excellent rapport, loads of common interests and she says she fancies the pants off him!!

OP posts:
lolaflores · 29/07/2019 19:34

You are certain your ex changed are you? You know for certain he hasn't played those games? That sort of cruelty does not disappear. It just regroup. He sounds like a total and utter prick and no great loss

lolaflores · 29/07/2019 19:37

Ih and just to clarify. .just cos he hasn't slapped her doesn't make the rest if it ok.
You need to educate yourself about what constitute abuse as I think you have a very sketchy grip on it.
You think the surface stuff if common interests and a sense of humour makes it seem just fine. That's the set dressing.
The verbal aggression can escalate. The emotional wear and tear us ot always visible.

Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 19:41

But the thing is that guy #1 has only ever been lovely to my friend.

OP posts:
PicsInRed · 29/07/2019 19:48

But the thing is that guy #1 has only ever been lovely to my friend.

Only the flies know what goes on behind closed doors.

category12 · 29/07/2019 19:49

But guy 1 treated you with cruelty and contempt, and now you're all matey with him? He's still that person tho.

Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 19:54

category12 you mean guy #2, my ex?

I didn’t realise how badly he treated me at the time as it was always dressed up as him being him and slightly amusing. But of course it really hurt and for whatever reason I didn’t stand up for myself enough. I think I was so in love with him that I was terrified that he would dump me and of course he did in the end anyway. The irony is that he probably wouldn’t have dumped me if I had called him out on his shit more regularly.

Yes, I’m still friends with him because actually he’s a fabulous friend. We work a lot better as friends.

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 29/07/2019 19:55

His sort are always lovely to other people - in front of you. So that you will start to think you are the one with the problem because they don't treat you that way.

They may also want you to think that they like your friend, in order to make you feel uneasy/jealous.

Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 19:55

He's still that person tho. Well I guess I forgave him because when we dated he was in his early 20s and totally inexperienced. I suppose he learned how to be a better boyfriend.

OP posts:
pikapikachu · 29/07/2019 20:17

They might be "good" for longer but alcohol or a life event like pregnancy or redundancy will have them revert to type.

Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 20:20

My ex has had 4 children with his wife and they seem very happy indeed. They both have successful careers and adore each other.

I just feel like I could have been different. And I’m wondering if my friend will have success with her guy by being different and more assertive than his ex.

OP posts:
lolaflores · 29/07/2019 20:33

U think u aren't enough because the job he did on u in the first place was very complete. He did damage to you and you are still second guessing yourself.
And I think you may ha e ought into the whole picture he has painted about wife and kids.
He lied on tv about your existence ce.
This sort of smooth liar does ot and will never change
He probably uses a different tactic with wife. Dont buy into his bullshit anymore. It is all shite

littledreams11 · 29/07/2019 20:36

No!

PicsInRed · 29/07/2019 20:59

I suppose he learned how to be a better boyfriend.

He learned how to be a more plausible to the outside world abuser.

After all, even you - his former victim! - determedly defend his newfound goodness and vouch for him to the world. You. His own victim. You! With such specific inside knowledge of how he is, secretly, behind closed doors. You - now his friend! - say that, behind closed doors, he is now very good to his wife.

My, isn't he very good, indeed.

Original poster
TreacleToes79 · 29/07/2019 21:52

Actually, now that I’m thinking about it he does demean her but in a completely different way with sexist jokes and ‘jokingly’ calling her a bitch as a term of endearment! He never did that to me because I would have asked him not to do that because I wouldn’t have liked it. I guess we all have our weaknesses with a person like that.

During that relationship I always felt like he was the one in control. If I didn’t behave in a certain way then I was at risk of being dumped.

I always remember, about a month into our relationship, he had a really really bad cold but still had to come into uni. I met up with him and gave him a little ‘rescue pack’ of paracetamol, fresh orange juice, etc. He was really annoyed because he said it made me seem less attractive to him because I was acting like his mother. I did it because I cared and hadn’t thought about it making me appear less attractive.

There was another time when I admitted to him that I had no need for other fantasies because he was everything I could want. He was like No, don’t say that. He wanted me to play hard to get or he would need to break up with me.

It was a difficult time. He was the first person who I really loved and possibly the only person I have loved that deeply and been in a relationship with. When we broke up I couldn’t talk about it for 6 months because I thought I would have a breakdown and never recover. This was nearly 20 years ago.

OP posts:
lolaflores · 30/07/2019 04:51

He is still buried in your mind to the extent you cant even see how he is being a dick to another woman.
Please distance yourself from this man for the sake of your own self respect.
Dont ever ask yourself again what it was that you lacked because the problem was and still is HIM.
I think u will start to see other problematic behaviours the further away you step and then be happy you avoided any further commitments to him
He really sounds awful.
Y

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