I'm wondering whether to date again after domestic abuse or to accept that the relationship I want doesn't seem to exist

[AnotherAdultHumanFemale]

There's something I keep thinking about and wanted to ask other women about. Just a disclaimer, I'm not actually a mother, I joined Mumsnet to participate in the feminism board so I hope that's ok.

A few years ago I realised something was wrong in my relationship when my ex threatened to hurt me after I'd said something he didn't like. I had this sudden realisation that I was not safe and, as if guided by some external or internal force, knew I needed to act normal and pretend I wasn't scared of him whilst quietly gathering up a few things to leave. I told him I was tired but I'd ring him in a few days then left then ended the relationship over the phone a few days later (which he was not happy about at all).

In the following days, I was so confused and doubted myself so I rang the national domestic abuse helpline. I expected they'd tell me my partner was not abusive and that he just had a bad temper or something, but they said I wasn't safe, classed me as medium risk and told me to call the police if he turned up. It was so terrifying, sickening and shocking because up until that point I thought I had this great boyfriend who 'occasionally said and did mean things.' I hadn't been with him for long but this event turned my life and perception of life completely on its head because I realised that so many things I'd thought were true and real were false and based on lies. He harassed me for a few months after that, not accepting it was over and I eventually went to the police which thankfully made him stop.

He was mostly emotionally and psychologically abusive but also sexually, physically and financially abusive in more subtle ways. He'd make mean comments about my body but then justify it somehow or say it was a joke. He'd be rough with my body, lean on me 'accidentally,' or grab my wrists suddenly. In bed he was cold and clinical after initially seeming like this really attentive partner. I realised it was just an act. He treated me callously, was no affectionate at all and once put his hands around my neck in bed and later denied this, angrily when I said I didn't like that sort of thing and could he please not do the again.

He always, always had an excuse for everything. I ended up having quite a lot of bruises and he told me that I must bruise easily. He always found a way for everything to be my fault and I mostly believed him and found myself apologising all the time. He was super tight with money despite boasting about earning a good salary and bonuses whilst I was looking for work trying to go self employed. He would manufacture it so that I'd have to buy all of our food when we stayed at his, whilst he ate the food at my house. ie. I was usually paying for our food and on trips out he would never buy my meal.

I also realised afterwards that he was cheating on me, possibly with prostitutes (I found something under his bed that clearly belonged to a woman and he said it belonged to his sister which didn't make any sense why it was under his bed). I also wonder if he cheated with men given some of the strange things he said like mentioning times he'd been naked with men and strange stories about his male friends sleeping with each other behind their girlfriends backs.

I read and read after leaving and realised that he fits the profile of a psychopath - charming, pathological liar, no remorse, no empathy, sees people as objects, callous and cruel, aggressive, sexually promiscuous as well as abusive, mainly psychologically.

I understand much more about domestic abuse now, have read some really helpful books on it and am in a forum that has helped me a lot. The issue is, it's been a few years but I now question entirely the notion of dating and partnering up with or marrying a man at all. I know they are not all abusive, but so many of them in my view behave so badly that I think, maybe life is best for women if they avoid men?

For example, my exes and most men I know expected me to pick up the bulk of the domestic tasks despite us not even living together. I found this astounding, like their brains are stuck in the 1950s. There's no way I want to be in a partnership with a man who expects me to clean up after him. But it seems, most of them do?

I also have a zero tolerance approach to cheating (which is difficult if they are good at lying and hiding it). I never accept cheating in a relationship, but saw a statistic that said 60% of married men cheat. I've never cheated, and would expect my partner to never cheat. It's fine if a man wants to be multiple women, but he doesn't get to be my partner if he does.

I think I just feel lost because I always expected I'd meet a man and get married and that it would be a happy, healthy relationship. That hasn't happened to me at all and I often wonder, does anyone experience that or are people just pretending? All those couples I see, are the men secretly abusive and cheating behind the happy smiles they show in public? Do most women turn their other cheek and expect their husbands to cheat? Do most women just do most of the housework and accept that as their fate?

I'm wondering what my future will look like since I cannot accept the above behaviour. But it seems most men behave like this (from my experience of relationships, men in my family, and men I have met whilst dating, some of whom turned out to be married and had lied to me saying they were divorced).

I'm currently focusing on getting my career on track, on looking after myself, learning how to be independent but often think what my future will look like.

Has anyone here actually got a really good, kind, faithful, loving partner or husband? I genuinely don't know if these relationships exist and I'm trying to make sense of everything and see whether it is worth dating again in the future or choosing to be alone intentionally. I'm late 30s now so not young in the dating world, but I feel mostly at peace with that, since I've let go of allowing men to make me feel bad for my age. I occasionally meet attractive men but when I do I start thinking, what if he's abusive too? What if he cheats, what if starts stalking me if I show interest? I feel like I cannot trust men at all in romantic relationships. They just don't seem to hold up their side of the bargain at best and at worse, they abuse, rape and murder us.

People often pity single women but I am starting to think that maybe it's actually a pretty good if not best choice for a lot of women. But, it's also not easy given that society still mostly expects people to couple up. I find it lonely because every woman I know is married now so I spend most of my time alone. This is fine most of the time but it's not good at weekends in particular where I often feel low and isolated.

Anyway thanks for listening and for your thoughts and advice on this.

*Correction:

'Nobody would stay with an abuser if he was nice all the time' to 'Nobody would stay with an abuser if he was abusive all the time'

(Abusers use the mean-sweet cycle to confuse their victims and keep them chasing the imaginary relationship the abuser pretended to be offering when they first met).

Thank you for the recommendations OP! I'll have a look into them. I've become abit consumed by learning about abuse because it's the only time I feel understood. It's true what you said about people not understanding you when you say you have been in a relationship with a psychopath. People think you're being 'dramatic' and that noone can really be that bad, as if these men only exist in movies and occasionally they hear about them on the news but the reality is that psychopaths make up 1% of the population and narcissists make up about 10%. They are not all axe murderers who looked crazed. They are the men next door who are handsome, charming and can be very successful. Its only when you become entwined with them that you see the real monster under the facade. I'm also sick of MN harping on about 'arm chair' diagnoses when you mention narcissistic abuse on other posts. Yes, you can't formally diagnose NPD over the internet but you can certainly spot the signs and with the vast majority never seeking a diagnosis (by the very nature of NPD they would never consider their behaviour abnormal) we have to find a way of protecting ourselves and other women by learning the signs. I will share them with anyone who will listen as I genuinely don't want one more woman to go through the pain of a relationship like this. It literally destroys you. Thank you for clearing up the myths about DV too as I'm also sick of hearing the ones you listed.

I've found it quite isolating because I cant really talk about what I experienced in my marraige because people look at me like I'm nuts (which hurts more because exH always told me I was crazy). I went to counselling and didnt find it helpful because she ended up crying in my sessions when I told her some of the things he did and it made me uncomfortable. I dont enjoy feeling pitied, I just want to feel understood and talking to other survivors is the only time I do. Another thing people dont understand is that it's never really over. My exH is in prison so I have had a few years reprieve, however he gets out in 2 years and I will have to deal with him all over again. He knows where my parents live and it will be one of the first places he turns up. I just dont want my children to keep being traumatised by this man because even with restraining orders in place, psychopaths have no respect for the law. My poor DC have seen their father being arrested more times than I can count from him turning up like this and we are all terrified of him. I have also stopped all contact with his DC and I know this has made him angry. I have always had a feeling that one day he will kill me (he threatened it enough times).

I'm also scared to do online dating again because like you say, it's full of predators and attractive to narcs who need multiple victims. What's sad is that I'm no good at meeting men IRL and I feel invisible most of the time. My friends are mostly with idiots so I would never date their friends and I would never date anyone through work because of the environment I work in. The alternative is staying single, but at 33 and only ever experiencing abusive relationships, it does make me sad on some level that I will never know a truly loving relationship with the opposite sex. I stayed single for 4 years after leaving exH and tried online dating which led to 3 short consecutive abusive relationships which brought up all of the trauma from my marraige and resulted in 2 ongoing harrassment cases (again, people now think I'm the problem because of this but I never set out to be abused, I just wanted to find love). The positives were that I had finally had enough of being a victim and this is when I started my healing journey and learning about abuse and codependency.

You really get it OP and it's great you are helping other women. I think once you have learned about abuse, it's like the matrix. You can finally see how it works and get the control back in your own life by cutting off people like this the minute you see them for what they are. The only way I can describe it is that I was blind until the age of 33 and I hope I can now really start my life properly now I can see.

Oh and another misconception is that women know they are in an abusive relationship. I married my exH at 18, I was naive and had been brainwashed by my upbringing and society that marraige is difficult and needs to be worked at. I had no idea he was abusive, even when he regularly called me names, criticised everything I did and occasionally hit me and locked me in the house. My parents always made out i was difficult and hard work and almost insinuated that i was lucky to have someone who would put up with me. Of course i was just reacting to an impossible situation and would have outbursts where i couldn't take it anymore and shout back at him and then I was made to feel like I provoked him in someway. In reality, I was like a caged animal trying to cope with an impossible situation and I was too young to feel confident enough that my feelings were valid.

I remember going to a relate session about a year into my marraige (I was 19 and had 1 DC at the time so desperately trying to make it work) and the counsellor just told me we were 'incompatible'. That person could have saved me many years of pain had they really explained how dangerous the situation I was in and that there was absolutely no point in staying because he would never be able to change. I wasted many years after that hoping he would change if I could just be what he wanted. He actually said to me once 'if you just do as you are told, everything would be fine'.

It's so important to teach our children about this type of abuse and how futile it is to ever expect change. DV is the ultimate con because you are promised the world and hold onto it. I've listened to several videos explaining the psychology of cons and there are so many parallels to DV. Everyone thinks they are smart enough to spot a conman but yet millions of people are still targeted by cons every year. It has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with the psychology behind manipulation which we are all vulnerable to on some level (whether we like to believe it or not).

Psychopaths and narcs are some of the most manipulative people on the planet and unless you know what you are dealing with, it is easy to fall victim and it's about time women stop being blamed for this.

The psychology behind DV and why women stay is also complex as you have mentioned and more people in law enforcement and public services need to have training in this. One of my recent stalking cases, the police officer was so flippant and said to me 'this is why I tell my friends only to date men who own helicopters'. It was a female officer and I guess she was trying to insinuate that only wealthy men are not abusive which is a huge myth and also that I had somehow asked for this by choosing the wrong man! To be told this shit when you are at your most vulnerable is really damaging and made me lose my trust in the police.

Hi Jaffacakearemyfave,

You might like Dana's series 'Red Flags of a Narcissist,' I used to watch 1-2 videos per day and it was like having a really kind, sensible friend tell you facts and give you a hug each day. It helped keep me sane when I was so confused and also spot red flags in other abusers now. The link to it is here:

I know exactly what you mean about people not letting us say the words narcissist and psychopath, it can feel really silencing. I don't care if they are diagnosed or not, it's the pattern of behaviour that matters. They always display the same behavioural pattern, it's amazing how many stories I've read that were almost identical to mine, and other people saying my ex sounded like their ex.What a relief once you learn about Cluster B personality types and their behavioural patterns, it's like shining light in a dark room.

I too cannot talk to people in my everyday life about my ex. I'm normally a bit of an oversharer but always have to be very cagey about men, dating, exes and relationships because you can't just say casually "well I'm not dating at the moment because I have PTSD from being in a relationship with an abusive psychopath who was possibly planning on killing me. Anyway, how about you?"

I'm sorry to hear you had that horrible experience with the counsellor. I met 8 counsellors before sticking with one who was very good and understood. The others were frankly rubbish, one told me she didn't believe me (!), another was clearly a massive (female) narc, I got bad vibes from her from the start and wish I'd just quit there and then. Unfortunately it was free counselling with only a very limited amount of sessions. I'm currently hoping to get help for PTSD because my symptoms are quite bad sometimes like memory problems.

I also totally know what you mean about pity. I noticed that as soon as you say you're a survivor, most people think you're this poor unfortunate uneducated foolish 'vulnerable' woman that everyone has to pity and treat like a child. It drives me nuts, my parents have always treated me like a child as did my ex and it just perpetuates the feeling of being looked down on, isolated, rejected and abused. Independence for me is so important, I'm still not fully there but it's my main goal. It's so hard after years of brainwashing that make me doubt myself and feel incapable but I'm trying to take it one step at a time.

That must be very frightening that your ex is in prison. Can you get it so that he is banned from contacting you and your parents after release? Surely he isn't allowed to go to your parents?

I also know exactly what you mean about the police. Because of what one police officer said I nearly returned to my ex after finally building up the courage to report him for harassment. After I left he opened up new accounts on various social media sites and would send me messages, calls, emails, texts etc but quite sporadically rather than all day every day. Because of this, this horrible clearly misogynistic policeman said 'that's nothing compared to a lot of cases we see' acted like I was overreacting, accused me of 'reading too many articles online' and also started using a mental health diagnosis against me implying that my account couldn't really be trusted because of it which is exactly what my ex had been doing - using my mental health to gaslight me! It was so confusing and awful, I'm so glad other survivors, the helpline and my local DA team were available to me because I asked them and they all told me it was definitely abuse, definitely stalking/harassment and to ignore the useless police officer. Luckily a female police officer was also there and she issued him with a warning and he stopped, but it's dreadful to know that he stopped harassing me because he decided to, ie. abusers have all the power in our shocking 'justice' system. Why on earth should women have to go in refuges, effectively imprisoning themselves, when the abusive men should be locked up instead? The law seems to see the liberty of the abusers as much more important than the lives of women, 2 of whom die each week at the hands of these men.

Do you have ongoing support considering you're still not fully free of him? Definitely seek it out, you need support especially for when he is released. The helpline can give you information about your local services and there are decimated forums and support groups. I found and still find them invaluable.

It's amazing how similar our stories are, I have also sadly dated several abusers and had no idea they were abusive until my 30s too. I just thought men who were good looking, arrogant, defensive, sarcastic, mean, selfish, critical, unpredictable, untrustworthy were 'normal' because that's what a lot of men in my family are like. It was and continues to be mind blowing to have to recalibrate my brain each day to what is normal.

Also you're exactly right about how there is no correlation between wealth, class and abuse, this is another huge myth and why DA is such a taboo in middle class circles. I'm an educated woman and I think it makes people uncomfortable and confused that I experienced it, I don't fit easily into any boxes.

Has anyone here actually got a really good, kind, faithful, loving partner or husband?

Yes. I was with XH for years and he was abusive in every way there is, it took me a long time to get free.

I spent 4 years on my own, happily, with DS1. I was quite happy on my own, and didn't want a relationship. I met DP and I honestly wouldn't have given up being single for anyone but him.

We're a team, and we're best mates. Obviously there's love and intimacy too, but that's the foundation of our relationship and it works for us.

I came home from work the other day, with stitches and bruised (there had been a major incident with a service user who was extremely distressed and became violent) in a sobbing heap and he just listened and then gave me a hug.

It sounds silly but even 8 years in, I'm still surprised that I deserve that. Because of the emotional and mental damage XH did.

I wouldn't want to be with anyone but him, and I honestly loved being on my own and he was the only person worth giving it up for.

Jaffacake and anyone else who this might help, I'll gather together a list of some of the best videos I've watched since they helped me a lot:

Peace and Harmony has a lovely channel, again it's like listening to a kind, warm, sensible friend tell you facts and giving you hope about your future:

This video is about the traits that attract psychopaths. Unfortunately it's hard for us to change these traits but I found awareness of this really useful, knowledge is power and we can protect ourselves now whereas in the past we were walking targets:

Chri Godinez explains how to find a counsellor that understands narcissists and psychopaths (they must be trained specifically in domestic abuse):

Meredith from Inner Integration talks about trauma bonding:

I also like Ama from Progress through Process, here she talks about the healing process after abuse:

I guess everyone will relate differently to each channel, stick to what helps. I like to watch a variety depending on my mood, I haven't watched them much for months but think I'll start watching them again as I have been feeling a bit stuck in the healing process. In a world of gaslighting, sexism, violence and misogyny these channels are a breath of fresh air and truth.

Hi OP, going back to your first post, I have actively chosen to remain single because I don't believe the relationship I want is out there. The life I have alone with my DC is better in every way.

I had a long and horrible marriage to a man whose speciality was continuous low level EA, but who was not averse to some of the other types of abuse now and again. Over time he wore me down so much that I lost all self-confidence, became completely isolated, lost my job and developed an eating disorder to cram down all the feelings I couldn't voice.

I only found the strength to split up in the end only because I found out he had been cheating throughout our marriage.

Relationships to me are not a place of safety. I am happier and safer on my own with a good bunch of women friends and I'm late fifties now, I don't have more years to waste in a relationship then finding out its another mistake.

I'm sorry to hear that Gladiolus45, since leaving my ex I have started to question this whole 'marriage is the best option for women' stance because of so many hundreds of stories I've read about women, stories very similar to yours.

I'm glad you finally broke free and now have a peaceful life. I go to a hobby group which consists entirely of retired women and I always enjoy it. I notice that none of them are focused on their husbands anymore, in fact they never mention them. I have no idea if they are married, divorced, widowed etc but it seems unimportant. They do often mention their children and grandchildren, and trips they've been on, and their friendships seem very important to them. They are kind and welcoming to me despite me being a few generations younger. I guess even when women do get married they often end up alone later on in life anyway and then their priorities change and life does seem to become more peaceful.

Thanks for the links @Another, that will keep me busy for the next few days 😊

Yes, we have scarily similar experiences but unfortunately this is all too commen. As you say, these men use the same tactics which really creeped me out when I first learned about it. It's like they have a hive mind or have gone to some sort of abuser school!

I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences with the police too. It really feels like you are losing your mind when even the police dont seem to care. With one of my recent harrassment cases, during giving my statement to the same female officer, my ex was texting me constantly and I started crying. I was absolutely terrified of this man and she kept asking 'why are you so upset, something else must be going on here' even though I had just explained in great detail everything that was going on. I had to report him 3 times before they would listen and by this point he had contacted my employer making false allegations against me to try and get me fired. I've never felt so humiliated and all because I ended our 9 month relationship because I caught HIM cheating. I really feel like the justice system is against women. He didnt turn up to the court hearing back in June and even though a warrant is out for his arrest, nothing has been done to actively arrest him so I feel like he got off scott free after nearly destroying my career. Even when he gets caught, I have to go through being cross examined in front of my boss as he's also a witness. The humiliation just goes on.

It's really difficult with my exH because he has no regard for the law and a restraining order is essentially just piece of paper. He's in prison for a different offence so there wont be any bail conditions not to contact me which have been the only thing in the past that has worked. I know I need to seek help closer to his release date and at least he wont know where my DC live but he knows which school they go to and I cant expect my parents to move house. I often wonder what it will take for society to take this problem seriously as like you say, 2 women a week losing their lives doesnt seem to be enough for policy to change. Abusers often get let off very lightly, are unlikely to face prison time and securing convictions in the first place is difficult because its often your word against theirs. My only hope is getting him deported (he's not from the UK) which the home office are also looking into because of this recent offence.

I also dont fit into a box. I'm well educated with a good career but Ive always felt like an imposter because if anyone really knew what I've been through, I know they would judge me and probably lose some respect which is sad but I already work in a field that is difficult for women.

I am going to look into trauma counselling again and pay privately when I have abit more money because I know I haven't really processed fully what's happened. I'm unable to recall big chunks of my early 20's because of this man and I know I must have repressed alot of it. He caused me severe mental health problems, anxiety and suicidal thoughts which again I was never told that these are classic symptoms of PTSD and trauma. I always felt there was something wrong with me, like I was weak and have relied in SRRI's most of my life to cope with this (which future abusive partners picked up on and threw in my face). All it would have taken is one person to say that I have symptoms of an abuse victim and it would have all clicked into place a long time ago. Have you heard of EMDR therapy? It sounds abit woo but apparently it has good results for PTSD.

It's great you have a group of friends who bring you joy. I've found really focussing on my healthy relationships with friends has brought me closer to being back to normal than I have been in a long time. I'm also working hard to challenge my inner critic and actually praise myself when I do something well. I want to get to a place where I can validate myself and trust my feelings in all situations (basically the opposite of what the abuser has brainwashed into me).

It's a long journey but we have come so far! It really makes me happy to see women supporting each other

Maybe I'd be happy with a non abusive good man, but another problem is I don't tend to find those sorts of men sexually attractive. I always find the high testosterone masculine men attractive who unfortunately often tend to be the bad eggs.

Its interesting to me that, as a pp mentioned, you seem to imagine that there are two types of men, masculine and effeminate, with nothing in between... to what extent do you stereotype men and dismiss those who arent "masculine" enough? To what extent do you confuse "masculinity" and emotionally violent/narcissistic traits? You may be weeding out men who are adequately "masculine" to hold your sexual interest...

In any event, this statement of yours stood out for me as a possible signpost as to why you might have struggled, historically, to find a kind and loving partner.

Personally I am often repelled by v masculine seeming men because, and this is my stereotyping, they're typically awful partners ime. However if I get to know a man a bit, no matter his physicality, I can grow to find him attractive provided I like his personal traits and he makes me feel safe. Does that sound possible to you?

If not, singlehood might be a good place to stay for a bit, and maybe after a bit of time you could test the waters again and see if you've developed a different way of relating to men? Obv therapy would help in that scenario.

FWIW I left an abusive marriage and now in a multi year relationship that's very happy and supportive. We are on the same team and work every day to show each other we love each other.

Hes not a huge hulking beast of a macho man, I'd say hes in touch with his feminine side, but his masculinity isnt in question at all. Ime men who have no feminine traits at all are the opposite of truly masculine... because being a real trope of a "real man" is in itself a sign of insecurity and low self esteem, which I find v unattractive

I think that phrase has maybe sent out the wrong message. None of my exes were big beast macho men, several of them were all actually quite short, some were medium height, none were super tall, all were lightly athletic but not really muscley or gym rats, nor did I ever see them be physically violent. I've never dated men like that. So I think people have got the wrong idea about the type of man I mean.

When I say masculine men, I mean men who are, well masculine and have high testosterone, and are good looking and often charming. Think charming, attractive, fit and healthy handsome men. These are usually narcissists and psychopaths I have learnt.

I have tried dating a wide range of men and was in a relationship with a man who I thought was nice (he was a lot nicer than the psychopath at least) but I wasn't particularly attracted to him, in fact I found him a bit repulsive by the end despite willing myself to be attracted. He was short, fairly thin, with narrow shoulders, a very hairy body and a very small penis and frankly I found this all very unappealing, but he treated me better than the others so I stayed with him for 2 years until I couldn't pretend to be happy with him anymore (I realised on top of my complete lack of attraction to him we were incompatible and my therapists have since pointed out he was also not a good boyfriend in a lot of ways - selfish, grumpy, defensive, refused to compromise etc).

So that's what I meant when I said I can't force attraction. I've been on dates with several of men over the years and just felt zero for them, absolutely zero. It even made me question my sexuality. I just can't seem to be attracted to run of the mill ordinary blokes, they need to be very good looking for me to be attracted it seems. It's not something I'm choosing, it's just attraction. So I just avoid dating because I don't want any more narcissists in my life.

Jaffacake that's insane that there is a warrant for his arrest and they are not doing anything about it. I totally agree, the police and the 'justice' system are so clearly rigged in favour of abusers, it's hard to process. I have been reading about radical feminism since I left my ex because the experience really opened up my eyes to the misogyny that is everywhere around us and how we are blamed for the behaviour of men.

One really positive thing is that you have maintained a career. This is something I haven't managed to do, but I'm working on getting into work again after having had to leave my first career behind. It's really difficult to maintain work whilst going through abuse and trauma so I hope you have acknowledged how great it is you have managed that. I try to do the same thing about the inner critic. I have started to praise myself each day for doing each small thing like the recycling, the washing up, showering etc because some days it feels so hard.

I had a difficult week last week. I have started playing this new sport to get fit and be sociable but unfortunately the coach has the same name as my abusive ex and is very narcissistic. He was really charming and flattering when I first turned up and I felt that dopamine high but also luckily recognised what had happened and started to analyse and see the red flags. I didn't go back for a few weeks and sure enough ever since then he has been unkind to me, mocking me in front of others, making it difficult for me to win points in the game and ignoring me when I try to ask questions. Last week when I played I started to feel light headed because of the heat and my vision went black briefly which was quite frightening. I tried to tell the others but he told me off for talking. Eventually it got so bad I had to go out to get some air and he suddenly switched into that charming velvety voice Cluster Bs use (it feels like hypnosis, my ex did it all the time on me and I used to feel drugged up by it and sleepy). But he managed to make a dig about me having to leave too. I think he felt stupid that he'd been ignoring me trying to tell people I might faint but of course he couldn't apologise. I like the sport but feel like I'm experiencing abuse again when I go there, he is so similar to my brother, I sometimes get PTSD flashbacks whilst playing it. All of this was really overwhelming and when I got home I just cried and cried. I'm going to take a break from the sport because I don't think being around him is healthy for me, it's such a shame he runs the sessions.

Yes I have heard of EMDR, apparently it can help a lot. I definitely think you should get some really good therapy, it sounds like it is rooted in your childhood too if you have ended up with multiple abusers like me?

Unfortunately I don't have many friends, I had to go NC with a lot of them because after learning about abuse I recognised the patterns in several of them. I was surrounded by narcs. I am much choosier about who I spend time with now which is lonely but also much more peaceful.

Yes, here is to women supporting other women. I credit The national domestic abuse helpline, various forums, my local DA team and articles about psychopaths online with saving my life because without them I would have continued to listen to the abuser and blame myself.

When I say masculine men, I mean men who are, well masculine and have high testosterone, and are good looking and often charming. Think charming, attractive, fit and healthy handsome men.

Yes, I know what you meant, that's also what I meant.

What do you think about the idea of not dating for a while and doing some therapy to address the attraction piece, and seeing if in a year or two, you try again? With the hope that your attraction patterns change based on your therapy?

@AnotherAdultHumanFemale I was in an abusive relationship as well, and wondered what you wondered about any potential partner. Went on dating sites after 8 months and just realised I was too nervous in case they turned out to be a monster. I'm still single 2 years later but have a FWB who has taught me a lot about kind and honest men out there. OK it's not how I ever thought I'd learn about decent men (was looking for 'the one' but this seems to work well for us)

I watched a programme last night on CH4 called shocking 999 calls (or something to that effect) and the first episode was about Alice Ruggles who was murdered by her narcissistic stalker and the police essentially ignored her too. It makes me so angry that womens safety doesnt appear to be a priority in our legal system. I've also become a more deeply entrenched feminist after my experiences because I've lived through mysogony every day. I dont understand people that think we have equality already and feel like they must be living in another dimension.

Thank you, my career has actually been one of the only things that has kept me going through difficult times but I suffer with imposter syndrome and it's hard when I have to do public speaking and pretend I'm this cool, calm collected person when inside I still question if I'm good enough. I'm confident you will find your feet again with work as you are clearly a highly intelligent and insightful woman. I've just started a leadership course for women in my field and you would be surprised how important life lessons are in becoming a well rounded person. You will be an inspiration to other by surviving this experience and turning what you have been through into something positive.

I'm sorry about your exercise class. It's a shame the instructor is such a creep. I've started an exercise bootcamp and found it really empowering as its mixed sex but we all lift the same weights and do the same exercises. Its taught me alot about mental strength and pushing myself when I feel like giving up. Is there anything like this in your area? I find bonding with others is easy because we are all struggling to get through the classes and fortunately the instructors are really supportive. You could try a womens only gym for a while until you get your confidence back as exercise is so good for mental health, especially group exercise.

I dont have many friends either for similar reasons to you but I try to invest more in the few I do have. I've recently had to cut contact with my sister because although she is similar to me in that she also is a codependent and has had nothing but abusive relationships, I feel she has spent so long in the company of narcissists that she has taken on traits herself. She broke up with her narc of 4 years and 2 weeks later she was feeling down so I invited her over when my ex (the one who tried to get me fired) was at mine with a friend. She hooked up with his friend (he was forceful with her) and it all came out about my ex a week later. Even though she had only met the friend once and he lived 100's miles away and was clearly feeding information about my ex back to me (telling me he was suicidal etc) and vice versa, my sister refused to stop seeing him and started bringing him to family events. She was also a witness in the case and I told her how betrayed I felt and she essentially chose a man who she had met once over her own sister so I've cut contact. Her adult son doesnt speak to her either for similar reasons.

I've never been good at making new friends and I do find it a struggle but I guess the happier you are, the more you attract good people so maybe focus on getting yourself OK first and the rest will follow.

Have you done the freedom programme in person? It might be a way of meeting people more local to you who understand. I tried it but found it too traumatic to listen to their stories so I only went to one session. It might be different for you though xx

Placemarking so I can come back later and watch all the video links

I think those relationships definitely do exist. I have a happy marriage and family life. I certainly know people who have have long happy marriages. I am sure they have had rough patches. But not every single person is an abusive twat. There are good, kind people out there and there are happy relationships.

But I do think that you have to be in the right place in your own life to attract the right people and to build the kind of relationship you are describing. I had many years when I wasn't in a good place and attracted people who weren't good for me. Spending some time on my own and living my life a bit without the burdens of seeking out a new relationship helped. It's also luck. You can be in a good place and ready for a healthy relationship, but if you aren't in the right place at the right time to meet someone, then you just don't.

But I never think it's too late. My mum was married to my dad for 10 years, they divorced when I was 8. She stayed since for about the next 18 years. She met her now husband when she was about 55. My dad was an abusive idiot, but my step-dad is a lovely, kind man and they have a very happy, healthy marriage.

There are men out there who see women as equals, who cook and clean. Who believe in a partnership, who doesn't cheat and plus bonus adores animals! And no not abusive. Definitely far from perfect but my other half is all of the above and we've been together for 13 years. He is the love of my life.

Sorry I just read through the whole post.
It wasn't a stealth boast, I just wanted to reassure you they are out there.
I had an abusive grandfather who had a massive effect on their children including my mother. She became fearlessly independent as a result and I totally look up to her. I learned a lot from her. I think she must have subconsciously alerted me to some red flags because there were certain men I would avoid from a young age. My friends would go for all the so called bad boys and I actively avoided them as I just knew they couldn't be trusted.

I met my other half at 19x although we didn't get together until I was 20 through work. We were friends first and I have never felt so comfortable with someone and I could just be myself. I hope if you decide to date again that you find this too. Good luck.