Has any one else realised that their outwardly normal family is actually dysfunctional?

[ACatNamedDoris]

I wrote out a huge post and lost it, ffs.
Recent events have made me realise this.

My mum came from a very toxic, borderline abusive family, and my parents have congratulated themselves on doing better for us, which in many ways they have. But having a family of my own has made me see some things from my childhood in a different light.

My parents were and are very much in love, but had a very volatile relationship in that they'd have epic rows and flounce, before making up again. My childhood was dominated by their ongoing dramas with my mother's interfering and controlling family. I feel my parents had a very "us against the world" attitude, which coupled with the dramas between the two of them, meant that we children were very much n emotional footnote to the main act, which was their relationship,their problems, what they had been through/were going through.

My mother has depressive episodes, hardly ever in recent years, but for years when I was a child she would spend long periods of time in bed. She worked part time, and when she wasn't working she was essentially in bed. It took me years to realise that other people's mothers didn't lie in bed all day, and that coming home and going straight to bed at 3 in the afternoon was not a normal or healthy reaction to doing a day's work. Occasionally she would get out of bed and scream at us for something - for example, we came home from school one day to find that she had emptied my sister's wardrobe out as she had got up to do some laundry and found my sister had been stashing her dirty clothes on the bottom shelf of the wardrobe and not folding the clean stuff. The washing machine was full and there was no laundry basket so sister was using logic I suppose, she was only about 11 at the time,but it was part of a cycle where Mum would scream and throw a fit and we'd always be quite baffled as to what it was all about

During this time, Dad would bring food to mum in bed and would not argue with her, but would moan and complain to us children. I feel we probably knew a bit too much about the ins and outs of their marriage, but now as an adult I wonder why he pandered to her.

Due to all of this, I just don't think there was much time for us children. My sister went for months with badly fitting school shoes with holes in them. I didn't have a winter coat for years, and when I asked for one, my mother dug out the most dreadful fake leather trench coat, four sizes too big, which I refused to wear. Mum always bought us clothes that were poor quality and huge - we were all skinny, but she seemed to think we were enormous and as us girls got into our teens she was always comparing herself to us, saying we had bigger bums and the like. When we did have nice clothes, the minute she saw them she'd say "I'll get a turn out of that" and she'd then take it and start wearing the item. If we complained she'd go mad and call us selfish. There was plenty of money, by the way - but they very much had the idea that the cheapest and plainest item, be it clothes, shoes, toys- "would do for the children"

Likewise, if we ever did anything childish, we were made to feel bad about it. My brother wanted to go to a party once, it was at one of those indoor warehouse places with laser guns and things, so a bit of a drive away,but he was desperate to go. I remember dad agreeing to drive him, but moaning and moaning and moaning about it and basically manipulating my brother into saying he didn't want to go after all. Any school event was moaned about, we were never taken to local child themed events as parents would find it boring.

Basically I feel that we were an inconvenience to them and they probably would have been happier childfree- though mum went into a depression when dad said no to a fourth child... They've been totally different to us since we've moved out and have been mostly brilliant as parents to adults, though some things have started to creep up again, as my mum is struggling with recent events in her family.

Sorry, this was long. I'm not sure what to think really. On one hand we had a good childhood, lots of fun times and happy memories, and it seems petty to hold on to annoyances over these things, but on the other hand, all us children ended up in some very dodgy and risky situations as teenagers, some of which have had long reaching consequences and I feel this has been brushed under the mat and only brought out when my parents want to go on about how hard they had it when parenting teens. I ended up in an abusive, though thankfully brief relationship with an older man, and when I tried to talk about it with my parents years later, my mum got upset and cried, said "you must think I'm an awful mother" and I ended up comforting her, with my dad saying "imagine how it was for us".

I feel that, in hindsight, our emotions and needs were always second to both our parents, but in particularly mum's, she always had to be the most damaged, the most upset, the most tired, and if anyone else seems to be having a worse time, she cries and it all becomes about her again. She did have a horrible and neglectful upbringing, so I'm not sure if what she does is attention seeking because of that - I can't believe that a mother would attention seek in that way over her own children though? I can't imagine being like that over my DC

Sorry, a bit rambling and a long post after all! I suppose it's not much in the wider scheme of things

I don't know many families who are well balanced and admirable. The Philip larkin poem is very accurate I think.
All we can do is reflect and accept. Therapy and journalling can help. It sounds like you had a particularly bad time and the fact you reflect on it and ensure you don't repeat their mistakes is a credit to you

As an adult, I realised many of the same things you did OP.

It does sound like you've tried to not repeat the same things with your family though, and for that, you deserve a bloody medal, seriously.

[Flowers]

Yes same here.
They were married, had homes had children but this was all interspersed with domestic violence, alcoholism, depression and a nasty tongue.

We were dragged along with it all.

Now I am positive that I’m no way near that with my family but I do wonder what traits I have unknowingly inherited and am passing on.

Thank you. I have tried, but I'm eternally worried that my children will grow up and have the same realisation about me. I find it hard to judge when to tell the children to wait and when to sort out whatever issue they have there and then, because I don't want them to feel emotionally neglected, but at the same time obviously there is a degree to which children need to learn to wait their turn. And I can go the other way and micro manage them a bit. But I do always try to own up to my mistakes and apologise to them, something which would be totally beyond my parents, the few times anything problematic from our childhood has been brought up, they expect us to say that it doesn't matter really and that they were fantastic parents. The few times any of us have tried to talk about it properly, they've gone on the defensive and accused us of ingratitude, or just cried. Maybe it's just that my personality is different, but I can't see why the two issues can't run concurrently--they were very good at some aspects of parenting but fucking up massively in others - but this is beyond debate.

I didn't tell them when I had various problems in my teenage years such as being bullied, because I didn't want to upset them. Though strangely as an adult I would be quicker to come to them with a problem, they're good at talking it through and suggesting a solution - as long as it's a work problem for example, nothing to do with them or the family.

we were all skinny, but she seemed to think we were enormous and as us girls got into our teens she was always comparing herself to us, saying we had bigger bums and the like.

Oh I know this! Sexual jealousy as soon as we hit puberty. My sister is in therapy and has come to the conclusion that mum has narcissistic traits. Ive always known that I was Mums favourite.

My Dad was depressed for 8 years so sat in his armchair watching the tv when he wasnt at work. Had an explosive temper and would suddenly start bellowing. We never did anything fun together as a family. I remember going on a y6 residential and not understanding why others were feeling homesick and didnt want to leave their parents. Even at uni I couldnt understand others who were crying when their parents left.

I figured until recently that they did better than their own parents although they were both born in ww2 so the bar wasnt very high. Mum has got a massive chip on her shoulder and goes on and on about abuse. My aunt came to stay when Mum was incapacitated and told a rather different story.

But never realised that any of the above was odd until I met my now DH and his wonderful family.

But I do always try to own up to my mistakes and apologise to them, something which would be totally beyond my parents, Yes me too! Oh I feel like Ive met a soulmate! Who needs therapy when you have mn?! ☺

I recognise a lot of what you write, both from my own childhood and from my own parenting tbh. Parents mostly do their best, and some of them do better than others. They sound neglectful and weak rather than abusive, which perhaps helps you to understand and forgive their shortcomings.

But in trying to understand, it's important not to minimise the impact all this may have had on you. You can think through what happened, reflect on what the effects may have been, grieve perhaps for the parenting and childhood you didn't have, and hopefully through that process try to heal your anger and sadness.

I don't think it's constructive to get bogged down in 'should' and 'ought' style judgements of the past but it's important to acknowledge damage that was done in order to move on. Can you talk to your siblings about it? Do they see things the same way? Because that validation can be extremely healing in itself.

There was a similar ish thread a month or two back and it was unbelievable (but strangely comforting!) how many people were parented in such an uninvolved way (and like you, nothing to do with a lack of money) that only became shocking once they/we had our own children. My own mother was an insomniac and took to her bed at every available opportunity too.
Not sure much to be done about it now but sounds like you would never want your own children to feel like that. I know that my spending on children's clothes is directly related to never wanting them to feel stressed about lack of clothes like I did.

redexpat yes the jealousy I find hardest to work out. I was quite a naive teen and was baffled then and now at the constant comparisons. I found it really weird. I once bought myself an item of clothing that was quite clearly a teenage piece of nonsense--one of these tie waisted tie dye tshirt things - and she had the oddest reaction when she saw it, told me it was horrible on me and would suit her better, asked to try it on, at this point I hadn't even had a chance to wear it properly and said no, she went mad with anger at me and the next day when I came home from school she was walking around wearing it. Honestly she was like a toddler over it. She used to try to get my sister and I to wear the most horrific frumpy granny skirts and jumpers, and would say we looked lovely, but anything more fashionable or age appropriate she would say was hideous

I feel you. My parents lives revolved around drinking but in a jolly "aren't we such great fun!" way. It's not much fun being the kid who doesn't know which personality your parent is going to have tonight, or begging them to turn the music down as you're trying to sleep and them just laughing at you and saying how boring you are.

I'm mid 20s and not a parent but have had this gradual realisation about how dysfunctional my family are in the last five years or so. I now know I couldn't treat a kid how they treated me. Not sure if I want to be a parent, and my childhood is part of that.

mcmoo I'd very much like to read that thread if you remember the title at all. I am the same with children's clothes, they really did have too much at one point but now I am focusing on really good quality stuff. I also have a white board and I encourage them to write or draw a picture of anything they feel they need, and we can discuss it. I didn't know how to ask my parents for things really, I used to feel ashamed of my clothes and shoes and didn't know how to express it - especially as, in all fairness, they would buy us brilliant bikes at Christmas, so hard to pinpoint the feeling of not having something

Here-

To ask if anyone else's parents sort of stopped parenting them as a young teen? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3605838-To-ask-if-anyone-elses-parents-sort-of-stopped-parenting-them-as-a-young-teen

they expect us to say that it doesn't matter really and that they were fantastic parents. The few times any of us have tried to talk about it properly, they've gone on the defensive and accused us of ingratitude, or just cried

This resonates so much with me. My mother raised us alone after my father died and seemed to resent that she'd been left with us, very little love in the house, hand me down badly fitting clothes that meant I was teased were deemed good enough, getting a lift anywhere was like I was asking for diamonds and she was always in a foul mood about something. There are a number of incidents I've tried to discuss with her in an adult way but she either pretends I haven't spoken (DH is amazed at this skill having seen it in action!) or cries and says I have no idea how hard it was for her. No acknowledgement at all that she really failed at many aspects of being a good loving parent. Imagine saying to a young child being bullied "Well I can't help it if no one likes you". I'm scarred by that 40 years later.

Like yours since I've been an independent adult she's totally changed and is now pretty decent; I suspect perhaps nowadays she perhaps wouldn't have had children at all but back then it would have been considered unusual not to.

I'm mostly sad for her now; although we get on fine we don't have the relationship I think she would like, but having been so independent for so long I simply don't need it. I haven't had children myself and part of that is due to me worrying I would feel the same resentmemt about any child I might have, and it wasn't a risk I was prepared to take.

Reading with interest! My parents were not abusive, but what they had was an outwardly stable, inter-dependent relationship, in which moral values were highly rated. And as an adult, in therapy, I can see that the outside them was not the same as the inside them, and I find that lack of consistency confusing: it's the thing that guided me (and still does) and I held in high esteem, and it was false. That, plus a marriage in which I was second fiddle, has made me really unsure about who I am, what I need, and whether it;s ok to ask for, and have, what I need.

I think that parents try do their best, although there are clear exceptions to that: maybe I should say, MY parents tried to do their best. Even the best parents can't meet the needs of all their children all of the time (or sometimes any of them at any time) but they don't usually set out to, as Larkin has it, fuck you up. The thing is, and the double edged sword part of it is that, try as I might, I am going to mess up with my children, I am not going to meet their needs (or even see what needs they have, at times). I can't help it, I'm human, and I genuinely try to do the right thing, but sometimes I fail.

My partial solution is to tell the children that: I know in hindsight that there were different ways to do stuff, that might have been better. But I tried my best, and I'm sorry for the fucking up.

Does any of that make sense?

A sad story, cat. You're not alone, many families 'lived a lie' for years. You had hard lessons. However it does sound as though your parents feel bad about it all and do love you.

The only thing any of us can do after bad childhood experiences if make sure our kids have it better, which you have done.

I often feel the same about my childhood. My husband had a very different upbringing to myself, he had both parents present and stability, I didn’t have any of that. My Mother left the house when I was 9, after an affair, which I myself discovered, she then blamed me for her leaving. My Father was drunk a lot and I remember feeling very lonely as a child, my Father used to go to the pub every Friday night at 7 and come back about 10, my sister was often at friends houses and I always spent time alone just gazing through my bedroom window with no one to talk to. I often feel it’s the reason why I am happy with my own company as an adult and don’t like being around too many people. My Father was also quite controlling and very impatient which was hard going. However, I’ve noted these as an adult and although I’ve had to hold back because I can be a bit controlling at times (which I hate myself but I find it hard to hold back sometimes but I’m much better now) I also would never leave my children, I don’t drink alcohol atall and I always make time for my children in the evenings and include them so they don’t feel lonely like I used to. Saying that my father was empathetic and I do share that trait with him, which I feel is a good trait to have. I have felt for years that I would have liked a different childhood but I have accepted it and moved on. Both my parents came from dysfunctional families too, so sadly it can be repeated cycle, until you break the link.

I don't know if there is anyone out there that hasn't been impacted negatively in some way (small or large) by their upbringing, every family seems to have some skeletons. Don't be fooled by anyone that conveys any different.

Acknowledging it and mitigating any chance of this happening again to your family is very honorable of you. Be proud of the person you are OP.

When I was 15 (looked much older) I met a very handsome young man of 21 on holiday and hung around with him all week, my mum flounced off one day whilst on the holiday and didn’t come back till much later , my dad later told me it was because my mum was jealous and fancied the lad herself!!!

I don't know, but I suspect that NOBODY has ever had the perfect upbringing. Parents are only human and there's no lessons in parenting, suddenly you have children and you're supposed to know how to bring them up, despite having had quite disturbed upbringings yourself (thinking back to parents who grew up through the war when food was rationed, blackout etc, which led to what might seem to be very strange behaviour when viewed by those who didn't go through that).

All we can do is parent the best we can. try not to repeat our own parents' mistakes and not, as PL said 'add some new ones'.

I've probably mused on this in other threads but reading this, I wonder if a lot of received wisdom and 'facts' about teenage development and the generation gap is distorted by the large-scale trauma wreaked on entire generations by two world wars.

If you think about it, people who were kids in the 70s and 80s had grandparents whose mothers were likely to have lost husbands in WW1 or be living with husbands/other male relatives suffering from shell shock. Those grandparents in turn might have been refugees, lived with air raids, rationing and a constant sense of danger, or have actually fought in WW2.

Their children - the 'war babies' would have had their attitudes towards food and gifts skewed by rationing (my late DF always spread his jam thickly on his bread as a reaction to being rationed as a child, and my DGM's Christmas feasts were legendary - and black market!) Could the adverse psychological effects of rationing be playing out in today's obesity crisis?

The current baby-boomers spent most of their youth rebelling against the war-induced strictures of their parents, and it doesn't take much imagination to understand the parents' resentment at their 'ungrateful' children.

This generation gap now seems to have been written into child development textbooks as a set-in-stone part of adolescence, and I wonder if it may be due for critical re-evaluation.

@Chopin that is a really good point, and I think you are probably right.

Nodded along with lots of posters on here, although I feel guilty for doing it because I know my parents adored us. They were just dysfunctional, coping with alcoholism, depression and the fact they probably weren’t soulmates and should have separated a looong time ago. My mum was/is a ‘stay in bed’ person. Days at a time. Never realised it was abnormal really until I was older. And I feel myself having days like it where I could just hide in bed all day, and know it’s not normal.

My dad always talked about their relationship with us and still does and I hate it. They had terrible rows where she would run away or throw suitcases of his clothes down the stairs! And I know they were both unfaithful. You do wonder what seeing those things will do to you as adults.

I have gone the opposite way of my alcoholic mum and been teetotal for about 7 years now. But I wonder if being the other extreme might impact my children in other ways. I just want my daughter to be happy above all else and so far she is (she’s only one though!) My siblings and I are very close more like best friends and I would say we are all fairly happy confident adults. So I don’t think they messed us up too much despite all the craziness.

I second what @Zaphodsotherhead said, I think a ‘perfect’ upbringing probably doesn’t exist!

Yes dysfunctional. And the too small shoes!! Oh god yes. I recently found Kris Godinez on YouTube. Total revelation. Have a search. Many videos are very long but theres shorter ones too that are around 10 mins. I watched in fascinated recognition.

"I don't know if there is anyone out there that hasn't been impacted negatively in some way (small or large) by their upbringing, every family seems to have some skeletons. Don't be fooled by anyone that conveys any different."

@bubblesforlife I don't believe that for a moment. My DH had a wonderful upbringing and there are no skeletons there. He was one of only 2 children and his parents always made time to do things like help to explain homework if he was struggling. His parents never pushed the DC or tried to live vicariously through them. They accepted that you can't be brilliant at every subject at school and that you won't like every subject. They taught them that you lost the argument if you resorted to swearing so he hardly ever does.
The DC always felt loved and listened to. It is probably one of the few families I know who aren't dysfunctional but there are definitely some of them around.

My DM suffered abuse and neglect in her childhood and consequently this has affected her parenting and has definitely negatively impacted the lives of me and my siblings.