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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Elderly mother giving me silent treatment again

41 replies

CoventryAgain · 17/07/2019 16:26

Sorry this is long. I don't know how to handle it when my mother next decides to speak to me again, just had so much of her manipulation, and I don't feel able for it. She cuts me off fairly regularly for weeks at a time. She will eventually decide I've been punished enough and will contact me, either acting like she spoke to me yesterday or saying something like 'you win' or she has a crisis of some sort I 'need' to know about or she has a health problem. If I say anything to her about ignoring me she will deny it. She's never wrong or she might say 'I must be wrong, I'm always wrong'. Any apology is followed up with 'I said sorry, now we'll say no more about it'.

She lives a few hours drive away from me thankfully so it doesn't impact my daily life too much but it's hard to get it out of my mind as I know she'll eventually make contact again and it could be at any time. I have a very stressful situation going on at the moment which doesn't help. It's nothing to do with her and I couldn't tell her anyway as she would make it all about her, she's very self centred.

I don't feel able to go no contact, partly due to her age/health and knowing I'd have flying monkeys doing my head in. Her friends think she's wonderful and tell me I'm so lucky to have such a wonderful mother. THey wouldn't believe me if I told them. There are times she can be very generous and appreciative of me, but if I do anything wrong the punishment is way in excess of what I might deserve. It can be that I should have done or said something but didn't, or that I shouldn't have done something but did, and I should have known without being told. I'm always on eggshells and it's exhausting.

At over 50 it's only quite recently, with the help of a therapist who has been shocked by some of the revelations I've made, I've begun to see how manipulative and toxic she has been all my life. Please don't tell me I'm being horrible about her, unless you've grown up in an abusive home it's unimaginable. In addition to my mother's behaviour my father was alcoholic and I witnessed violence and arguments from a young age. My husband is supportive but is away and we can only have short phone calls for the next couple of weeks.

If you've got this far thanks and if you can suggest ways to deal with her when she decides my punishment is over, please do.

OP posts:
QueenOfTheCroneAge · 18/07/2019 07:50

If you can't go NC, I like Lawnmowingsucks suggestion;

  1. Ignore the fact that she's practicing emotional abuse and text happy jolly breezy texts about your day/week/the weather
AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/07/2019 07:56

Hi coventry

re your comment:-
"I don't feel able to go no contact, partly due to her age/health and knowing I'd have flying monkeys doing my head in".

These are not reasons in themselves to remain in any form of contact with her. She has always been toxic and otherwise abusive towards you; its nothing to do with her age. What does her current age or health have to do with this?. Its not your fault she is like this and she made you her scapegoat for all her inherent ills. Your parents both failed you abjectly when you were growing up and your mother still does.

Is your therapist trying to properly address your fear, obligation and guilt?. You may also find reading the "out of the fog" website helpful too.

Do read and/or post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages. The resources on there at the start of that thread too are well worth reading.

Silent treatment like she is showing you now is another example of emotional abuse.

The flying monkeys do not want to hear your side of things so their opinion should be roundly ignored. Do not engage with such people at all. If you’re unable (or unwilling) to cut all of them out of your life immediately, then the best thing you can do is to refuse to react.
Recognize their manipulation and attempt at FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt), and do not engage with them.

A good technique is, when they’re talking, to get them to explain their stance and their reasons behind what they’re saying.
Keep asking questions, keep asking them to talk about what they’ve been told, what they “know," what they want, etc.… but do NOT try to defend your own behaviours or make any attempt at telling your side of the story. The mere fact that they’ve taken this intervening action means that they have little interest in anything you have to say, and have allowed themselves to be totally influenced and manipulated by the narcissistic abuser.

Once they’ve had their say, you can point out that they’ve obviously come to their own ideas and conclusions without ever talking with you alone and getting your side of the story, so their opinions are invalid, and you have no interest in anything they have to say.
End of discussion.

Just make absolutely sure that you remain calm and emotionally disengaged throughout the experience.
Their goal is to make you nervous and flustered, and if you remain objective, calm, and show little to no emotional investment, then you’ve gained the upper hand and they can’t affect you at all.
People can’t hurt you if you don’t grant them access to you, either physically or emotionally.

A good example of this would be the concept of the “empty suit" in Aikido: that you are an empty vessel, and merely use the opponent’s energy to win the fight. Tire them out, and then walk away.
In fact, walking away is ultimately the best technique you can possibly have to remove both the narcissist and their monkey minions from your life, permanently.

It can be incredibly difficult and painful to do this, especially if the Flying Monkeys are family members or woven closely into your social life, but you have to take care of yourself by whatever means are necessary.

Lawnmowingsucks · 18/07/2019 08:03

Another thing to remember OP is that your mum is simply abusing you as she's always done because it's worked! She's not going to stop. Her abuse works - why would she stop!??

I can completely understand you not wanting to go NC but cowering and waiting for her abuse to stop simply enables and empowers the abuse of you

As I said - 3, when practiced regularly, is so empowering imo and ime

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/07/2019 08:10

There’s an old saying that is quite relevant here: you can’t get blood from a stone.

Keep dialogue to an absolute minimum. Avoid interacting with them as much as possible. But don’t make a big thing out of it as this will just give them ammunition.

When you do have to talk to them, stick to tedious subjects like the weather. If they ask questions, give short, uninspiring answers that can’t possibly lead to further conversation.
They ask, “how are you?” and you respond “fine, thanks.”
They ask, “what did you do at the weekend?” and you respond “I did my laundry and mowed the lawn.”
If they respond with “you’ve become boring,” just nod and smile in agreement (they don’t have to know that you disagree wholeheartedly with that statement).

A simple yes and no will suffice where appropriate, but sometimes you won’t want to commit to an answer if it means giving an opinion. In these cases a non-binding “hmmmm,” “maybe,” or “we’ll see” will do.

Never talk about your personal life, even the smallest details. Never tell them how well you are doing (as much as it might please you to rub their noses in it). Remember, they are driven by their egos, and any suggestion that you are better off without them or that they are in some way inferior to you will be seen as an affront to their identity. They see themselves as above everyone else in every regard, and if you imply that you are doing better than they are, it will enrage them.

Do not ask them questions. Even if it seems like harmless small talk, as soon as you engage with them and ask them about their life, it gives them the green light to reel off a list of their recent accomplishments (whether true or fabricated) to belittle you. Or they might rant about a mutual acquaintance to see if you’ll react in any way. Don’t give them a platform. Don’t pander to their need for attention.

Avoid mention of the past at all costs. You don’t want to revisit those dark times even if they do. By bringing up your history, you risk the resurfacing of old wounds and arguments. You’ll also be faced with the blame game which is never a game you can win.

If this should happen, one tactic which can help to diffuse the situation is to publicly accept responsibility for the problems you faced together (even if you don’t accept it on the inside). Any attempt to apportion some of the blame on them will only be met with denial, defensiveness, and attacks on you.

If they comment on how bad you look, let it go in one ear and out the other. They are trying to get a reaction from you, but if you just shrug as if you don’t care, they will believe you weren’t the catch they thought you were.

When you employ the Gray Rock Method with a narcissist, you can expect them to react to it. They may not know precisely what you are doing (and you should NEVER tell them that you are taking this approach), but they will sense a change in your behaviour toward them.

One common response is anger because it is something they have no doubt used countless times against you in the past. They may shout and they may act in a threatening way, but you must try to remain cool, calm, and composed in the face of their rage.
Alternatively, they may belittle you for staying silent or offering little in the way of a reaction. It’s the classic child-like approach to someone who isn’t listening; to call them names, tell them they are being silly, or laugh in their faces; anything to elicit a response.
Sadly, a narcissist is not shy when it comes to using others against you. They will lie and fabricate stories about you, try to turn others against you, get others to bully you (the flying monkeys), or threaten those you care about unless you comply with their wishes.

If you can sustain your nonreactive stance, you will notice a shift in the narcissist. They may still try to push your buttons, but they will do so less and less often as they get tired of the playing the game. That’s not to say that they might not, at some point in the future, start trying in earnest again – possibly when their new source of supply dries up – but as long as you don’t take their bait, they will be forced to seek their narcissistic supply elsewhere once again.

One thing you should never expect from a narcissist is remorse. They have none. No matter how much hurt they caused you and however harrowing your ordeal, they will accept precisely zero blame or responsibility for it. So don’t go looking for it.

While it is an effective means of dealing with a narcissist when going no contact is simply not an option, the Grey Rock Method does have one or two downsides.

Firstly, you might try to use it in the wrong circumstances. When it IS possible to go no contact with a narcissist, you must always take this option. You might be tempted to simply use the Gray Rock approach rather than go through all the hassle of cutting them out once and for all, but this is not advisable.

Yes, you may still have feelings for them. Yes, you might hold out hope that they can change. Yes, it does require some upheaval and effort to ensure your paths never again cross. None of these things should be used as excuses for going Gray Rock when you have the option to go no contact.

If you have unnecessary interactions with her, then you leave yourself open to the risk of falling back into their trap. As good as you may think you are at being nonreactive to them, it only takes one slip-up and you can soon find yourself in the unwelcome situation you tried to escape from.

The second danger of using this approach is that you let it creep into other parts of your life and other relationships. You may start using the silent treatment with friends or new partners, you may experience a growing sense of indifference toward the wider world, and you may lose interest in all the things you once had a passion for.

You can also lose the ability to empathize with others as you numb yourself to any emotion, fearing it leaves you vulnerable to manipulation. You have to remember that it is ok – even advisable – to be open and honest with other people, and to let your guard down and trust again. You can’t live the rest of your life at a distance from other people just because you have to take that approach with the narcissist.

Blondebakingmumma · 18/07/2019 08:30

I get so angry when I read about people who are harassed by flying monkeys. I suggest you respond to them with

“Oh! Has she decided to speak to me again?! She’s refused to take my calls for ..... months/weeks. IF she wants to make amends then she can call me to apologize for cutting me off!”

Then I wouldn’t engage in hearing any excuses for your poor mother.

hellsbellsmelons · 18/07/2019 08:54

Google FOG - Fear Obligation Guilt
Do some reading. Go onto to Amazon and put in 'daughters of narcissistic mothers'
You do NOT have to put up with this.
It's going to be hard going but NC it is the way forward.
It will take a few attempts though.
Just like any abusive relationship, it takes the 'victim' an average of 7 attempts before they eventually leave.
Do some reading and see how you get on with that.

Sicario · 18/07/2019 09:50

@AttilaTheMeerkat - your observations are absolutely bang on.

Lisette1940 · 18/07/2019 10:16

AttilaTheMeerkat totally true. Great post. So helpful.

RosaWaiting · 18/07/2019 10:23

OP if you don't feel able to go NC could you say to her "contact in dire emergencies only"?

As you don't live near her, I'm guessing that if she needed to go to hospital or something, she's got other people who take her.

greenwaterbottle · 18/07/2019 10:34

I've read your replies. Then I'd tell them all how busy you are and how stressed you are. Then put an answer machine on on your house phone, turn your answer phone off on your mobile, try and pull back slowly so they don't notice and take time for yourself.

sprouts21 · 18/07/2019 11:18

I don't have contact with a family member for similar reasons.

Your mum isn't going to change and if you can't go no contact the only option is for you to emotionally disengage. I feel for you it's really horrible to be treated like this.

Zaphodsotherhead · 18/07/2019 11:52

I used to agree with mine all the time. So when she said 'you're looking tired/haggard/too fat/too thin/your hair looks stupid' I'd just say 'yes, I do, don't I? (or similiar). Would take the wind right out of her sails because she was hunting for an argument. She would also feel that she was subtly being made fun of, but could never put her finger on how, so I'd get the 'ooh, you think you're so clever...' which would make any onlookers think she was slightly batty, which, of course, she hated.

Emotional disengagement is the only way, I'm sorry, OP. While you still care, she has an 'in' with you.

CoventryAgain · 18/07/2019 12:13

Thank you all so much, I’m stunned by the thoughtful responses and so relieved no one has been critical, I’m always plagued by doubt that I’m doing the right thing, only recently realised why!

AttilaTheMeerKat thanks for those amazing replies, really helpful. Her age and health mean that there’s a limit to how much longer this can go on, I feel so bad writing that. Interesting what you say about asking questions, I don’t usually get the opportunity as when she phones she goes straight into whatever is going on in her life. The recent upset is that she misinterpreted a situation with a family member, phoned me to get me to interfere and I wouldn’t get involved. If I had got involved it would have been a different kind of mess. I have reduced my reactions to her substantially and will go even more grey rock. My husband is good at seeing her shit-stirring for what it is, and I have got a lot better at recognising her manipulative tactics before I end up in a shitstorm. She is very very clever at doing this out of sight of other people.
I have very rarely brought up the past, she just minimises it and if I mention any details she tells me to stop, refuses to listen, fingers in ears. The reason I started seeing the therapist is because of a very complicated stressful situation that occurred completely outside my control. In the course of dealing with this my family situation has come to light and I’m only recently beginning to understand how bad it is. In the last year I have reduced contact with my mother a lot, not really intentionally, but have seen how it has been good for me.

She doesn’t insult me in terms of how I look, which must be so awful for those who are treated like this, in fact she is quite complimentary. Its when she decides I’ve done something wrong she’ll accuse me of been so horrid, I never listen to her, she’s always thinking of me etc and then the silent treatment comes. Almost from one extreme to the other.

I’ve just bought Daughters of narcisstic mothers and will get stuck into it as soon as.
Thanks for all the replies they mean so much, it’s really a load off my mind.

OP posts:
Happynow001 · 18/07/2019 18:15

I know in my head I don’t deserve this treatment but as my husband says she’s not going to change.
Your husband is right - she will not change being manipulative to you. You, however, need to find the tools and the strength to stop reacting emotionally in "little child" mode trying to please/appease her. What behaviour is she supposed to "forgive" you for - it doesn't sound as if you have been anything but caring to her and, therefore, leaving yourself vulnerable to her narcissistic behaviour.

Do, please, continue to work with your therapist on how to manage your interactions in an adult way which will protect your mental health.

If you can't do that, the alternative is for things to remain the same until your mother finally passes away. Can you bear that?

Strength to you OP. 🌹

mummmy2017 · 18/07/2019 18:25

A technique for no violent abusive behaviour is you agree with them.
Then you add your bit..

Mum says you have not called me..
YouYes mum I have not called you because you were cross and blanking me..
Mumbut you should have called me.
YouI agree I should have called but I was respecting your wishes.

Mum *I could have been ill..
You**"Being I'll would not have been nice for you, however I had asked family to tell me if I was needed..

MonSacEstDu31RueCambon · 18/07/2019 18:58

Another good book is JOnice Webb running on empty. And the follow up.

That one really resonated because my Mother never sets out to be cruel, she just doesn't NOTICE that she is telling me what I think. Also, she's a people pleaser herself and so with the family she uses me as tool to people please more and then gets upset/angry with me if I don't do what she wants me to do to assist her people pleasing agenda. I am/was a terrible people pleaser so I kind of understand her except that the difference between us is I encourage my daughter to please herself.

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