How to deal with anti-gay BIL?

[insertrandomname]

Hello
So I need some advice. Bro in law is vehemently against gay marriage, gay relationships and completely and utterly against gay couples having families.
DW and i are about to break the news to our families that we are expecting () but no idea how to deal with BIL.

For context, he frequently posts about his views on Facebook, made a huge fuss about us getting married and refuses to call me auntie to his children.

I would cut him off completely and never let him meet our future child, but inevitably he will be at family events especially as he's immediate family. I don't know how we should tell him or how we should deal with it when he starts spouting off again.

Any advice?
Thanks

@donquixotedelamancha

WHUT! That's spectacularly the wrong advice! Although, i admit it's very funny!

PiL just don't see it as homophobia
So they are just as bad as BIl.
Do PIL have any brain cells? You probably only need half of one to recognise this as homophobic abuse.

we're supposed to just agree to disagree
The only way to do that is to not allow ANY discussion re homosexuality etc when you're all together.
BIl and his ego won't allow that though.

If we 'attack' his Christian beliefs then they see that as bad as him 'attacking' our belief that it's ok to be gay
Well if they told him to shut the fuck up you wouldn't need to defend yourself!
They pacify you by throwing you a few crumbs of 'support'....whilst all the time enabling BIL so he can say the things they can't/won't.

he tried to divide the whole family and started having a go at PiL and everyone for supporting us. It caused so much upset and I can see it happening all over again....As soon as we try and argue back they get all upset so we've had to take it like doormats for 10 years
You both need to lay down boundaries with PIL too.
They CHOOSE to enable BIL's behaviour because they secretly agree with him - they will never admit that out loud though.
Your child WILL pick up on the homophobic abuse and enabling and WILL get dragged into it.

I'm sure PIL do see it as homophobic but are playing it down for a quiet life. You don't have to agree to disagree. You can decide his behaviour is intolerable and unacceptable and refuse to have him anywhere near your little one

I think you are just going to have to say that actually, having a child is unexceptional. And act like it. It’s not up for discussion because you will have a child and everyone involved is going to have to put their beliefs aside and act like a family.

There are always bores who go on about homosexuality. You either agree to disagree, don’t spend time with them, or fight fire with fire. But you can’t have your life up for debate every time you see your in laws, particularly when you will have a child.

@SavingSpaces2019 thanks, it's helpful to see this so black and white. From all these responses (thank you so much everyone) it's clear we need to revisit these conversations now that he's moving back and make it clear where we stand. We can't let this become a thing like our wedding did.

@donquixotedelamancha lol, I'm sure it'll all come out one day of its own accord 

@Soontobe60 thanks, you are so right that I do not want my children exposed to these beliefs. I feel so sorry for his 3 DC and what they're going to be taught is ok

Congratulations. I feel a little sorry for your dw having family who are homophobic and closed minded.

How often do you see them? Could you cut it down. Just see those in the family who aren't dicks like your BIL. And PIL too because they allow him to express these views.

WHUT! That's spectacularly the wrong advice!

Yeah, but it would be great fun :-)

@RebootYourEngine thanks, yeah it's been a hard journey for her but they are so loving towards me despite not completely agreeing with us. I think they will love our child like they love me now, but will always be a bit conflicted about what they think the bible says and what civilisation says.

In terms of seeing them less, we've found the more we see them the more they have got to know us, respect us and appreciate us as a couple. I think seeing them less would be detrimental- like fuelling the fear of the unknown. They see how evidently in love we are and I think that's starting to mean more to them.

Not minimising their prejudice as it's been bloody hard and hurtful, but am giving due regard to how much they've tried to get on board, especially when they've had so many friends and family saying how wrong it is and spent most of their lives living in communities where it's unheard of. I think they've fought for us more times than we realised, just BiL is off the cards because he's a very horrible person to be in an argument with that they can't face the fight. I feel a bit sorry for them because they are in an impossible situation, if they side with us they lose him and if they side with him they lose us.

I really despair of people using the Bible as a reason for homophobia. It's such a blatant excuse. Jesus says nothing about gayness being a sin. Not a single thing. The only mention in the entire New testament is in Paul's letters to the Romans and that's pretty much shock-horror about all manner of sexual relations out of wedlock, rather than homeosexuality specifically. The hatred against gays is Old Testament, and there's a hell of a lot of Old Testament rules than modern Christians dismiss as outmoded and silly, so why not this one too?
They may be Christian and they may be homophobic but arguing that the two are linked is just twaddle, though I know loads of Christians do. (I also know a few homophobic Christian men who I'd put money on being repressed gays.)

What a cunt.

DGrandma is a Catholic. DSis came out as a lesbian, DG was totally fine with it. DSis comes out as trans a decade later, and is now DBro, again DG didn’t bat an eye, just wants DBro to be happy.

So nah it’s a bullshit excuse. Also whenever he spouts this crap it’s a hate crime. Remind him of that.

The hatred against gays is Old Testament, and there's a hell of a lot of Old Testament rules than modern Christians dismiss as outmoded and silly, so why not this one too?

I think it's fine to be homophobic, provided that when you are on your period you go off into the nearest desert and burn two pigeons. Anything else is just hypocrisy.

Similarly hating gays for religious reasons while eating lobster is frustratingly inconsistent.

Massive congratulations!

YOU really need to step up and set some really hard boundaries right now. Your DW has been conditioned to tolerate hate thru her upbringing - you need to support and encourage her to see that it is wrong and that not standing up to it is very wrong as well.

If you stand by YOU and enabling an environment that will continue on to hurt and abuse your baby. Saying if BIL does it once to baby is the WRONG boundary - far too late and v poor parenting.

Your DW pregnancy does not need to be seriously harmed and over shadowed by this vile toxic shite.

This should be a glorious time - pregnancy, birth and parenthood - do not let these vile people steal this from you both like he did your wedding.

Your BIL will NEVER change - you need to protect your baby, the pregnancy, your new family from him. ZERO contact. He cannot be trusted - he is who he is a vile domineering bully.

PIL can make their own decision as to how they want to express their “Christian” beliefs. See them separately.

*If you stand by, YOU are enabling...

What we have said to our resident family bigot, is that you have the right to your beliefs. You have the right to express your beliefs. We have the right not to want to hear them. We are respecting your right to your beliefs, and to express them, we wish you to respect our wish not to hear them.

Of course, they couldn't resist.

Now the only members of the family still prepared to acknowledge their pathetic existence are no longer in contact with them.

Congratulations on your happy news!!

As a Christian your BIL should realise that he is in no place to judge others for what he believes to be right and wrong. He should leave that to God. He is no better than anyone else. He should also show people Jesus through the way he lives his life which means he should try to love everyone the way that God loves him. So even if he thinks you are living your life wrong, he should be graceful and forgiving.

Could you try telling him that he is boring you all and only needed to tell you once his opinion on your life? If his rude behaviour escalates it might be worth reminding him that pregnancy should be a time where it's best to try and stay calm etc. Good luck, hopefully he will keep his feelings to himself, or even better, this new life might make him re-think his attitude. Xxxx

Congrats on your news.

Tbh I wouldn’t bother telling him. You will never change his views, keep your distance , at family events a simple hello will suffice. Leave it to your wife to decide what kind of relationship she wants with him.

It’s not worth the hassle. As much as you might want him to accept your relationship and family you really can’t force him,

Exactly @donquixotedelamancha and don't get me started on the evils of wearing cotton and linen at the same time. Or wool and cotton. Abominations that are constantly overlooked by people with logs in their eyes about homosexuality.

and don't get me started on the evils of wearing cotton and linen at the same time. Or wool and cotton.

You need to include a trigger warning if you are going to post such obscenities.

I do have some empathy for those who have only known the view that homosexuality is wring. Something is wrong because of what those around us say. If nobody indicated stealing was wrong, would you know that it was?

However, you say they have really improved. If I were them I'd say "Son, it's not our place to Judge your sister and insert. God is the one who decides who he judges and does not." Because in this case if he argues more, he's being disrespectful to his upbringing. It's also not confrontational nor states you take a side.

If you really truly believe homosexuality is wrong due to your religion then it would make sense not to take part in sexual relations with someone of your own sex. However, a true loving person who believes in a loving God would trust their God to judge others and therefore they would focus on their life and moral standing.

I have known many Christians who actually have m

I do have some empathy for those who have only known the view that homosexuality is wring. Something is wrong because of what those around us say. If nobody indicated stealing was wrong, would you know that it was?

However, you say they have really improved. If I were them I'd say "Son, it's not our place to Judge your sister and insert. God is the one who decides who he judges and does not." Because in this case if he argues more, he's being disrespectful to his upbringing. It's also not confrontational nor states you take a side.

If you really truly believe homosexuality is wrong due to your religion then it would make sense not to take part in sexual relations with someone of your own sex. However, a true loving person who believes in a loving God would trust their God to judge others and therefore they would focus on their life and moral standing.

I have known many Christians who actually have no problem with homosexuality. They believe God has seen how love has progressed and life is no longer just about procreation and therefore they feel that God would love them just the same for loving someone just like them.

As far as your direct relationship with BIL is concerned I'd just tell him to not bother talking to you both if he cannot be respectful. Ultimately as loving as DWs parents are, now you have a child their needs come above yours or DWs and Amy toxic contact isn't worth it.

Might have already been said but the first thing I thought....he's gay! Those who shout the loudest
Anyone who is comfortable in their sexuality really doesn't care.

I'm not religious, but all the same, I hope this thread doesn't just turn into a Christian bashing fest.

I also think that it's a lot harder than many of us recognise for people who've been brought up in a faith where they've been told that something is wrong, all their life. I have great respect for those, like the OP's PIL, who work on trying on be accepting and recognising love when they see it. I had the most wonderful PILs who initially (my FIL at least) were very unhappy about my husband dating/marrying out of their religion. But from the moment they met me, they accepted me into their home woth warmth and kindness, and soon came to love me like their own. No more was ever said, even though I know that. for a few years at least, my FIL's siblings gave him a hard time about it.

BIL obviously is not cut of the same cloth as his parents, but that's about him, not his beliefs as such.

Can you talk to your PILs about how important it is that your baby is born into a loving family, and ask them to encourage BIL not to create an unpleasant atmosphere around it? However much they might be trying to avoid conflict, I'm in no doubt that they will want the best for their grandchild.

/\ /\ - exactly - he is just a domineering thug and a bully hiding his abuse behind religion.

I also think that it's a lot harder than many of us recognise for people who've been brought up in a faith where they've been told that something is wrong, all their life. I have great respect for those, like the OP's PIL, who work on trying on be accepting and recognising love when they see it.

It's not that hard not to be abusive to people because they are different. I was brought up in such a faith- I never behaved like that, indeed the faith told me not to. I defend people's right to believe what they want, even stuff which is unpopular. That's not the same as being horrid to someone.

BiL can do the Christian thing and believe that OP is not getting into his magic clubhouse in the sky while being nice to her. That would not bother OP because she doesn't think the magic clubhouse is real. BiL is being a bad Christian by behaving like a dick and now he's not getting into the clubhouse either.

@OP. Tell your BiL that he's not going to get into the magic clubhouse because he was mean to you and that's much worse than being gay according to the Clubhouse rules. That'll learn him.