ABUSIVE Relationship - scared of leaving in case loose kids...............

[looneytune]

I'm posting about my sister as she's been brainwashed by her dh and I said I'd try and get some proper advice/info for her.

Some of you may possibly remember my threads about a year ago where I was actually going against my sister and trying to help BIL. I feel really bad now but it definitely seemed the right thing at the time, all my family felt the same too. Anyway, these are the previous threads for those who are interested in the history.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=7&threadid=184595&stamp=060627103706
www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=7&threadid=187205#3854940

Well, a few months after the last thread, my sister and BIL moved to Australia for 3 months to try again (living with his family). They came back at the start of this year and started a new life in a totally different area to where they were and anyone really.

I've visited their new place once for a quick cup of tea and they seemed very happy, kids happy etc etc and sister always happy on the phone, it seemed. She blurted something out the other day which she didn't intend to, it just happened.......a lot has been going on over the past couple of weeks which is why she's been quiet (we've all been bit concerned about lack of responding to messages). Turns out that she's been covered in bruises and had cracked ribs due to him attacking her - she winds him up!! She says it's totally her fault for winding him up and I'm not to tell ANYONE about it, just forget it. She said she found out he was having an internet affair and lost it, smashed his laptop and scratched him etc so he cracked her ribs - it's HER fault she said. Now imo, there's a line you don't cross? But maybe she's right, she started it???? I DON'T KNOW?!?! BUT......I DO know he's done things when she DOESN'T deserve it (not that she did in first place though) i.e. she has a go verbally and he kicks/hits her and the latest............she phoned yesterday to talk about it all and to tell me not to worry as she felt bad for telling me. She then phoned me late last night and said he went mental asking who she'd called, what we talked about etc (as she went out to call me) and obviously she didn't tell him what she'd told me, she just remained pretty quiet. So he grabs her (pinching skin hard in process) and pushes her hard down to the stairs wanting to talk it out with her. That was the last I heard and I know she'll have gone back. She'd got it in her head that if she keeps her mouth shut, she can't wind him up and everything will be ok. I said you can't live like that and anyway....she's since been quiet and he got angry with her for not talking and did something to her coz 'she wound him up'.

When she was covered in bruises and blood, she didn't want the kids seeing her like that so she moved out for a week and he told the kids it's coz 'mummy gets angry sometimes and needs to go away to calm down'. She's gone back to him and he's made it clear to her that if she leaves, she'll not get the kids.

So now it's a reverse of the previous threads and hoping that I can help my sister. I'm now wondering how long this abuse has been going on and if he did it before she had the affair? Thing is, she always said he never did anything to hurt her, just didn't fancy him and thats why had the affair but now i wonder

She's also worried because she's been back and forth to Dr's and hospital recently BUT she lied about how she got hurt. I said I'm sure this happens all the time and that when they check things out, they see through this? But I really have no experience.

I feel like I'm babbling on now.....I just want to know that if my sister has done things to wind him up etc and even scratched him, does that mean it's not certain she'd get the kids if she leaves? She DOES want to leave, she's just scared.

I also found out that this was going on in Australia when his mum was at work i.e. pushing her up against the wall SOOOOO, it can't be about her anger towards his affair, he just gets angry and lashes out by the looks of it. PLUS...his mum left his dad when he was young due to abuse like this!

Any advice would be great as I want to get my sister the hell out of there!!

Thanks if you got this far

I just wish she'd let me talk to family about it as they'd get her out of there straight away

looneytune, this post has made me cry. How awful for all of you, particularly your sister. When I was a child, I lived in constant fear of an abusive grown-up and can remember the absolute agony caused by the fear, when I had done something to upset the person and they came rushing up the stairs to wallop me. Your poor sister must be absolutely petrified for both her and he kids, but at the same time she obviously thinks what he is doing is right and is also scared of getting out of there.

She is probably scared that if your family find out then he will know she has been 'blabbing' and will hurt her or the kids seriously. But I think discretion is key for everyone here. DV officers don't go wading in; they will remove the mother and children first and get him off her case. Then she can be with family who love her and probably have counselling. I know that all seems too easy and definitely know it isn't that easy, but I do think her wish to keep this secret is geared by fear and not necessarily wishing to protect him. She may now believe she deserves all this, but how else can we rationalise all this stuff in our heads? As children, if we get hit or bullied we rationalise it by feeling we did something to warrant it; and I think this is what your sister is doing: she is erasing the confusion about it all by thinking of things she did to turn the man she loves and who professes to love her, into a complete and utter monster.

I really hope you can all sort something out. I do think the first step is telling maybe your mum or someone who won't go wading in with their fists because of the way this man had been acting. I know if anyone told my uncle my husband had done anything like this, he would try to punch his lights out; that isn't what is needed here. She needs to be removed from the situation calmly and maybe into a refuge while they sort him out, so she is safe. This behaviour is not right in ANY circumstances.

I am so sorry for your sister. There are some secrets that are ok to keep and somethat are not. This is not one to keep, tell your family so you can all work together to get her out of there

i think u should just tell ur family anyway......and the police.there is absolutely no chance that he would get custody of the kids if he is abusing her like this, it would help if ahe actualy pressed charges against him it would be on record then.i feel so sorry for ur sister as she shouldnt have to live her life in fear of a bully

you need to make her realise that one day he may go too far and it could cost her her life and her children their mother

I'm so sorry to read this looneytune you must be very frightened for your sister and worried.

I would reiterate thatthere is no way he (her H) would get custody of the children if he is beating her. Even if that's what he is saying.

Obviously he is very adept at telling lies and covering up his behaviour.

Please do tell someone so that they can help. Your mum is a good start.

If you want some advice also contact www.womensaid.org.uk

They have helped me recently. Good luck and don't feel you are alone trying to deal with this.

there is NO way she will lose the kids to an abusive partner- the courts will take one look at him and say no.

Besides the court will always try to keep the children with their mother unless she is an unsuitable parent, which she is not!!!

Thanks everyone for being so kind, I was bracing myself for an attack for not supporting her in the previous problem but it was so very hard and seemed like she was the cow at the time (but now I wonder if all this had already started )

TiredFedUpNanny - thanks for the advice, it helps coming from someone who has been in this situation before - how horrible for you too I've been agonising over whether or not to say anything due to past history of thinking it was right to say something and then it all going wrong. I'd like to tell my mum but even if she said she wouldn't, I know she'd tell my dad. He'd go mad and not be able to be calm, very protective in this sort of situation and doesn't realise the need for calm. I feel that if I could talk to my parents face to face (they live 4 hr drive away) then maybe I could explain better and keep things calm but on the phone, it can all go wrong. My parents happen to be coming down to stay on Friday as me and dh are going away for weekend and they are looking after ds for us. Now, I could say something then HOWEVER my sister and family (incl dh of course) are coming to stay at mine on Sat night so they can all catch up. If I say something, it could kick off on the Saturday and I don't want that and really don't want my ds exposed to that, he's only 4 (am I being selfish?)

paulaplumpbottom - that's what I've been agonising over. I asked dh and bf and they said I should respect her wishes but try and talk her round - they know what my family can be like - but now I'm wondering if maybe I SHOULD say something!

fawkeoff - I told my sister my fear of her being killed one day etc etc but it just didn't make a difference Will keep trying though. I've said before about my concerns about telling my family but I am seriously thinking about it. What about the police. If I contact them and tell them the bits I know, wouldn't that cause her a whole load of trouble if she's still at home? Will the police even listen to ME? If it's worth it, I'll try that too, just nervous and want to be sure first

veeworried - thanks and thanks for the link. I don't want to be the only one who knows this, the responsibility is scaring the S* out of me!

allgonebellyup - thanks, I just need to get this into my sisters head don't I!

Soooooo, now I've mentioned about my family, do I go for it anyway? Do I call now and not wait until Friday, do I wait til Friday and speak to them? Do I leave it and speak to police/other people? I do have my brother (sisters twin) living local atm after 6 months in Australia so I suppose I could talk to him BUT he'll go MAD as hell and probably want to drive there and beat the s out of her dh - although I'd calm him down and stop him of course. It's not that any of my family are voilent people, far from it BUT we can't bear the thought of our own being treated like this and I must admit I want to beat the s out of him too (but he'll be stronger )

WHAT DO I DO NOW????

Thanks so much for listening

Anyone? I can't think about anything else and am wondering if I should call my mum?

looneytune, please call womens aid - I have spoken to them very recently (you may well have seen 'my' thread on a similar topic).

They were very supportive and helpful and gave me some great advice. I know that they also provide counselling. Please do ring them. Its the first step and you will really be helping your sis.

Good luck

The number is 0808 2000 247

looneytune, this sounds like an awful thing to ask, but how much of the DV story do you know to be true? It's not clear from your original post whether you've seen her bruises yourself, or whether you knew she'd been to hospital, etc.

Please forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn. But I think before you involve any other family members you need to be sure of your ground.

veeworried - thanks

tribpot - I don't KNOW anything for sure, just believed her due to a lot of things making sense. She's been really quiet recently and we'd all been wondering why as she'd made out things were fine at home. She rang me to ask if I knew xxx (a name on her h's Facebook, if you've heard of that). She asked as he knows this name through his old work, also my old work. I said I didn't know her and didn't believe he'd be having an affair with her etc. Then (can't remember how) she just came out with it all. She insists it's her own fault but wanted to explain why she'd been ignoring us all. She said she needs to learn to keeo her mouth shut and she knows just what buttons to press to wind him up, she said that when dad called about arranging this weekend at mine, he was lucky to catch her as she'd just popped back to collect some stuff (it all makes sense as dad was very surprised that when he said about visiting them, she straight away said she'll come up there, makes sense as she wouldn't want family going to hers with that going on). Lots of things make sense but NO, I've seen no evidence which is why I wasn't sure about the police thing. Oh....I don't know.....she's made up lies before but I honestly don't believe she is this time. If only you knew how terribly abusive he was to my dad in an email, a voilent temper on paper, believe me!!! He slagged me off too after all the help I gave him. He shocked my family so much that we wondered what he was really like. And it's like he's had her hidden away ever since they started again. But I still don't know anything for sure I suppose.

soooo confused now

The other thing to add to me being unsure about saying anything........my mum is depressed and really struggling with life at the moment due to her and my dad caring for my nan who has dementia real bad (she lives with them). She drives them mad all the time as I only spoke to mum yesterday about needing to get to the Dr's and also arranging a holiday without nan as they need a break badly. So with that going on, I don't want to make things worse but then, I do remember having a problem myself a while back and mum said she was glad i told her as it took her mind off nan.

Also.....being selfish now......I'm TTC baby number 2 and when I was pregnant with ds (he's 4.4 now), from start to finish I had to deal with my parents split, dad's attempted suicide, ALL SORTS OF SH*T and now I look back, I was depressed during my pregnancy as couldn't cope with it all (it was awful) and I ended up with terrible PND after ds was born bvut didn't realise until I became suicidal. I'm terrified of getting it again and have been thinking about going to the Dr's etc (more worried about it as I'm a childminder and don't intend to take much time off work if I can help it) and now this info has been given to me, I'm worried about a similar thing kicking off this time round and I just can't deal with that on my own - I know, really selfish but I have to think of my family etc!

Oh yeah....tribpot.....one thing I DO know is that the shouting etc in the house when they had their problems a year or so ago really really affected the kids and it broke my heart seeing my nephew so worried about them arguing - he started hearing things that weren't even happening So I really think she's best off without him anyway iyswim

bump (sorry, desperate for some direction)

Looney - if he has beat her, you can call the police, anon if possibly, even if you do say who you are she will understand in the longrun trust me.

They will press charges against him whether she wants him to or not.

Please please tell someone else, you cannot deal with this on your own

Also she will not lose her kids, i was with a mentally abusive ex and he tried to tell me i would lose my ds, threatened to take him to another country, ds is still with me now He is not allowed anywhere near him.

Thanks and sorry for not coming back sooner. In the end, later on Monday I told my mum, after telling my brother. My mum is picking her moment to tell dad and see what everyone thinks. Now we've all talked, I'm wondering how true everything my sister has said is. I certainly think she has such a temper that sometimesshe does push him too far i.e. he uses self defence etc HOWEVER I also believe that he's not always had good reason. The problem is, once you start hitting etc, that's it usually and we (my family) all agree that they shouldn't be together. So, now everyone is having a think about the best way to tackle it which is very good actually as they usually go in all guns blazing and it never ever helps things, just makes my sister shut everyone out and then we have no idea what's going on. This really is the best way to handle it when it comes to my sister! I don't quite believe the things she's said about not being able to go out etc as that doesn't make sense and thinking about it more clearly now, my sister NEVER does as she's told! So now it's a case of my family trying to speak to my sister without her dh knowing, or maybe they'll be upfront and ask for his side of the story? I don't know, all I know is that I was so worried sick and now am just relieved that someone else is sort of taking over - I'm always the one sorting things and keeping secrets and I've just had enough!!!

Thanks though, I will certainly go to the police if nothing gets done and I'm sure of what's happening. But until I know for sure, I'm not doing anything because the more and more I think about it, my sister is very likely to be loving the attention of me being extremely worried about her (sounds sick I know but this is what she's like).