Can you be brought up to be unlovable?

[GottaGettaway]

I'm 45 years old, I've never been loved and I'm wondering now if I'm just unloveable.

I don't think I was born unloveable. I think I was brought up to be so. I was emotionally and physically abused as a child and teen. Whilst the physical abuse from my parents ended when I was 18 and left home, the emotional abuse continued until I finally went NC a few years ago. I was aware of my relationship with my parents breaking down from about 8 and was regularly told from being around 10 that no one would love me, that I was unloveable. There was no emotional warmth or support ever and emotionally, I've been on my own since I was about 3. I developed all sorts of coping mechanisms to deal with that. Although I've only really understood that in the last 5 years or so. I had counselling but I have been told that to undo it all, I'd need long term intensive therapy to, essentially, take myself apart and put myself back together again. I have been warned it would be traumatic. I can't afford, financially, mentally or emotionally, to do that.

When I was younger, I was desperate to prove to myself and them that I wasn't unloveable and had a lot of boyfriends but, if they weren't physically or emotionally abusive, I rejected them because they didn't care enough. I read it as ambivalence.

When I was younger, I thought that, one day, I would meet someone who loved me. But I haven't. I didn't realise at the time but I was quite dysfunctional and wouldn't actually have recognised 'love' even if I had found it.

I had a lot of one night stands and brief flings that I always ended after a matter of weeks. I didnt think for a second that these ONSs were 'love' but it was all I could really cope with. My mum I was told I was too fat and unattractive to he loved. I wasn't fat. My dad just didnt give me any reason to believe I could he loved. So the ONSs fulfilled a need for human closeness and a superficial interaction that briefly met my needs.

In the intervening years, I married and had a family. He was also abusive. He didn't love me and punished me for my unloveablilty everyday. Just like my parents had, he tried to correct and improve me to make me a more acceptable version of who I was. I was punished for failing.

We split up around 8 years ago.

I've had a few relationships since but have eventually realised that they were cheating on me; controlling; abusive. I've ended them as soon as I realised - my boundaries are good in that respect but I didnt spot the signs soon enough. None have lasted more than a few months but the signs were probably there from the first date on reflection.

I haven't devoted my life to finding love. I'm very resilient. And I wouldn't date someone just for the sake of not being single. Being single/alone doesn't scare me but realising I've just become completely unloveable breaks my heart if I'm honest.

I'm just empty now. I don't think I was born unloveable but I think my experiences have made me so. I wouldn't 'recognise' love if I found it because I dont know what it looks like. I can only look at what people do/say and if I dont like those, I walk away from them. I've realised now though that it's too painful getting it wrong. Not because i get upset at the thought of losing them, but I'm just adding to the list of people who don't care whilst the list if people who do is so very small.

This isn't about being content with being single; I have found peace with that - this is about my living experiences having shaped me to the point where I can't be loved.

This is the saddest thing I've read on here I think. But it does resonate not because my parents were physically or deliberately emotionally abusive but because they closed down after the death of my sibling.

I struggle with feeling worthy of love.

Love to you OP xx

I suffered emotional neglect as a child with occasional emotional abuse. Mostly it came from my mother not father but she tried to control him too. I allowed people to walk all over me for years. I was used to my feelings not counting so I continued. Everything pointed to me not being lovable. Therapy really helped me. It stopped me feeling angry, guilty and allowed me to start loving myself and standing up to people. It causes havoc because they can't hack it but in the end the true people stayed and the others stayed away or I kept them away which was best for me. It felt strange at first to put myself first. My self esteem and confidence rose. Then I met my lovely partner and I feel very loved.

You say yourself you pushed anyone who wasn't abusive away because you saw it as indifference. It's not about being unlovable, that's quite a meaningless term. But if you can't accept someone in your life unless they are treating you poorly, that's what you're going to get.

Tbh, Trees, I was in my early 20s at the time and after spending 18 years being shut in cupboards; hit; locked in the garden, barefoot, in your nightclothes in the snow; being dragged up the stairs by my hair; being hit across the face; flung across the living room; dragged out of the car on the hard shoulder of the motorway; being threatened with being 'locked up' in mental institutions; terrified of my parents; never hearing a kind word from them etc etc etc and constantly told I was worthless and no one would ever want me, I'm not going to take any responsibility for not realising instinctively what a healthy relationship should look like. You might have learnt that love looked different to that. I didn't. I didn't think I was worth anymore than that and I felt guilty that anyone decent was making a fool of themselves by being interested because they didn't know that I wasn't worthy of them. I felt shame for them and believed I was doing them a favour.

Zenith I've had therapy. I no longer feel anger or guilt. I'm able to stand up for myself now; I have good clear boundaries and I'm able to cut people out who aren't good for me. My self esteem and confidence on a daily basis are much better. Year on year I can see and feel an improvement in myself.

I do sometimes still keep people at arm's length, without really realising it, I feel quite anxious if people get too close. I think that's an underlying fear of them realising I'm not actually worth it afterall.

But I don't believe I'm capable of being loved.

Op we are identical. I could of written most of your post word for word.

inthescrapheap

piersorgan

But I don't believe I'm capable of being loved.

This is what it's left to work on. Not because it's your fault or responsibility but because you need to eventually accept that you are good enough,you are worthy of love,you do deserve good things.

I have a similar background, I'm just lucky(not better or more lovable) that OH fought to stay in my life even when I did everything to sabotage the relationship and push him away.

You weren't unlovable then and you definitely aren't now.

You keep saying about all the things that are "bad" about you,what about tje good? Are you kind,funny,hard working,loyal etc?

You sound incredibly resilient, resourceful and insightful.

If I have understood you correctly, by 'being unloveable' you mean not having the capacity to be loved, because to feel loved you have to be able to receive something, and be able to vulnerable enough for someone to get close? I think you are right. It's not that people couldn't try and love you, but there's no way for you to receive it?

I don't think that's unchangeable, but yes I do think it's either therapy, or a very lucky choice of partner, made more unlikely by the fact that when you find it impossible to be loved you tend not to attract people who can love you, or there may be an initial attraction but then you withdraw.

If I were to try and explain the therapy that I've had (long term, psychodynamic/psychoanalytic psychotherapy, for the most part twice a week) would say part of what has helped is the insight bit, which it sounds like you now have in spades. That came first. But what has been a bigger help in changing is the other part, which is the experience of being 'loved' by the therapist. I've put 'loved' in inverted commas, because obviously that's not how it would be generally referred to and it's not like a romantic or friendship relationship. But being thought about, held in mind, paid attention to, being accepted, the experience of really being known - that is 'being loved', I think, and it's what good parents do for their children so they can be loved other people later. It's easier in therapy because the therapist isn't going to take advantage and they will manage the boundaries, so you don't have to.

I don't know how traumatic it would be, to be honest. I think it's hard but I'm not sure it would be completely unmanageable. I don't know if its like taking yourself apart, so much as gradually getting to the point where you can stop holding yourself together and trust that the therapist will hold you together for a bit. Any change will involve you having to let go of your normal way of managing things, if only for a few minutes at a time to begin with. You sound like a survivor to me.

Alternatively, having got this far, you could just see how you go for a bit, and see if the idea of not being able to have the kind of relationships that other people seem to manage, and get so much out of, starts to sit a bit easier over time. Because there's not being able to manage a relationship, and being bothered about not being able to manage a relationship - the two are separate things. Maybe it will become a 'gap' that matters less over time, if you have other (non romantic) fulfilling relationships. Or maybe something will shift gradually and it will become something that seems safer in the future.

Where are you in the country, if you don't mind saying? In some places it's possible to get low cost therapy from (experienced) trainees, which might sound alarming but I know several people who have had good experiences. It's also very common for psychoanalytic psychotherapists to offer a few low fee places, so it is worth asking if you want to explore that route.

I'm sorry you didn't get the start in life that you should have done. Especially well done for not inflicting the same on your children.

Sorry for the delayed reply. This is the first chance I've had to type a considered response.

YourSarcasm It's good hear that you met someone who was willing to stay and fight for you!

As for my good points, I'm kind, considerate, honest and loyal. I have integrity. I'm resilient. I take a bit of a "fuck it" attitude towards life - I don't hide behind 'but it might go wrong?' or 'what if I make a fool of myself' - I'm happy to push myself outside of my comfort zone and I'm not afraid to laugh at myself.

Some of this is because I've forced myself to become like this so I'm not held back because of my insecurities and part of it was because I thought, "fuck it" - if no one likes me, I might as well do it anyway - they're not going to think any less of me. I'll just do what makes me happy.

Because of that, I've just got back from a weekend of the best gigs I've ever done. I had so much fun.

swimwithaview Yes, that's exactly right both in terms of your understanding of what I meant but also the comment about withdrawing after the initial attraction.

I've had therapy and counselling previously but always found it difficult because I spent the whole time with the little voice in the back of my head criticising me for being self indulgent and self pitying.

I've looked into low cost therapy before - it's still more than I can justify spending at the moment though.

I am accepting of the fact that I can't manage a relationship, or relationships of any kind really - I struggle hugely with friendships too. But I am very bothered about it. And very saddened by it. It breaks my heart.

Like I say, I've been away for the weekend with my band and we did the best gigs and had the most fun I think we've ever had together. I know it was a real bonding experience for the others generally but I still really struggled and spent a fair bit of time on my own. I don't like to 'inflict' myself on other people so even though we all had fun, I don't like to impose myself on other people. I know that sounds contradictory but everyone else spent a lot of time getting to know each other on a personal level and I didn't have that.

It was a bit of a double edged sword really. I had fun and we all had fun together but it also exposed to me how, on an individual level, I'm always on my own. And I don't know how to change it.

Oh gosh. You know? I'm the sort of person who is always talking, because I grew up in a big family and we're always talking. But IT DOESN'T MEAN WE'RE BONDING.

You can talk for several hours to someone and feel lonely at the end. It's just a script (?) Introverted people always misunderstand this. I mean, sure, chatting can always help connecting with people, but it can also be a barrier.

Or, you can exchange a moment with someone and connect, even without words.

So your weekend sounds amazing and creative and, frankly, I am jealous. You could always interpret it as a good experience, with people. From the outside it would seem like that.

I get where you are coming from, it sounds like your upbringing was similar to the one I had. I do feel that an upbringing like that makes me (and my siblings) very prickly people.

It take a very special person to be able to fight through the prickliness and find the good soul hidden deep inside.

For me I have changed my perspective, I can't fix who I am completely but what I need to do now is break the cycle so I hopefully give my kids a good chance at being happy.

Maniak it was seen, and described, by the others as a 'bonding experience'. I know, because I reflected upon the weekend with a friend I had a lift back home with, that other people had shared mental health backgrounds; family experiences; personal fears etc.

We only really spend band practise and gigs together. It was a good opportunity for people to get to know each other as individuals rather than just band members. So yes, it was 'bonding'.

I'm not introverted.

It was a good experience and it was creative. I enjoyed the performance and 'fun' collective part of it very much but, in between those times, everyone else got to know each other a lot better and I didn't have that.

StoppinBy I'm not 'prickly', but I am wary. I don't like to 'inflict' myself on other people.

How do you mean, you do what you need to do to break the cycle? I feel sad for my children that they have grown up without 'family friends' as such, but they have their own friendships and seem to be ok.

Hey, sorry to say you are introverted when you aren't. It was just how you were saying about inflicting yourself on other people. Sounds like a shy person, but of course I don't know you. I'm glad you had a good weekend though.

Thinking about it.

The bottom line is that they are all lovely people. They really are - there are no unpleasant dymanics; no one is cruel or unkind - there's lots of good natured piss taking but nothing unpleasant; everyone 'gets' each other's humour so no one is offended.

But this weekend, people sought each other out to get to know each other better and spend time with each other getting to know each other's personalities. I did make the effort with other people - but realised on the way back when we were talking about it, that no one had made that effort with me.

I find other people intimidating and unpredictable and, I know from past experience, that as much as I crave the opportunity to spend more time with people and get to know them better, in reality, the outcome is usually that I feel the need to get away from them afterwards. I worry that I've overshared or accidently upset someone or that they just weren't really interested in spending that time with me and I 'imposed' myself on them. I feel foolish; resolve not to let it happen again and then worry that no one likes me.

I've been awake since 1.30am feeling anxious about it all and worrying about seeing them again.

Well, I would never make any effort unless I saw clear signs that they wanted me to. Like, here you put up a post, which is a clear sign that you want to talk about something. So maybe you weren't sending out signs?

But also, it sounds as if you did do what you wanted - you didn't impose on anyone, you didn't say anything too personal or embarrass yourself at all. That's a win, right?

For me, adult friendships take a long time. It really is easy come easy go. Like, you can have all the emotional bonding over a weekend and it's so great and blah blah, but it's the friendships that develop in tiny ways over months and years that really count. And it sounds to me - and I'm sorry if this seems like I'm not listening to you, but it really does sound to me, that what you have with them is great. Like, I have some friends who just don't do personal revelations. They're reserved. That's fine. I feel like a bit of a blabby idiot around them at times, but they're fun to be with.

What I mean is I try my hardest to ignore the way I instinctively feel the need to yell and get angry when my children don't behave the way I want, that I try my hardest to show my children what it mean to be loved and supported because I hope with all my heart that as they become adults that they don't suffer from the need to keep people at arms length in case they get hurt by them.

I want my children to see me loving them through their tantrums and disagreements so that they naturally respond to their own children (should they have them) in that way. Goodness knows I fail more than I should but I get up and try again to become an instinctually kind, patient and loving person.

Maniak no, it doesn't sound like you're not listening. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

Yes, you are right, I did have the interactions I wanted in that respect. I'm not worried about having said too much or having upset anyone. That is true.

I see what you mean. I suppose I was a bit thrown by finding out they had shared more personal revelations with someone else and took that as a sign that they like him more than me. I suppose, I just don't really know/recognise the signs that someone likes me and so compare the way they interact with me to the way they interact with each other in order to gauge it.

Ah, thanks for clarifying, StoppinBy. Mine are older but I also did similar to you in that respect. If I wanted to know how to react/respond, I imagined how my parents might/would have reacted and then chose to do the opposite. It seems to have been a fairly successful approach. They have definitely had a more positive experiece and have better self esteem/confidence than I have ever had.

It's not easy though, is it!

You're allowed a presence. You're allowed to just be and be there. Speaking out doesn't mean you're imposing or inflicting yourself on other people. You're not a burden love, let them see you.

I would never make any effort unless I saw clear signs that they wanted me to... So maybe you weren't sending out signs

This was really difficult to understand at 4.50 this morning! yes, I see what you mean. Maybe i didn't.

I think also I find small talk/general 'chit chat' quite difficult. So I don't get through that bit easily which might lead on to more meaningful talk. Maybe that's it.

Thank you YourSarcasm. I just find it very hard to get the balance right and, if I feel I've spoken/acted 'inappropriately' then I'm very hard on myself.

I don't really know how to tell if people like me or are just tolerating me either. I tend to work on the idea that people tolerate my presence and then try not to offend them.

I'm aware it's all very introspective and tiring but it's how I've learnt to be over the years.

Nope, not easy at all unfortunately.

OP. Your background is HORRENDOUS! So many hugs.

First, you are lovable. The unlovable feelings you experience are part of mental conditioning set in place by your abusive parents. Your abusive ex just took over the slack.

You are experiencing flashbacks. These aren't as always completely debilitating. I had a strange one the other day when picking up a National Geographic of all things!

I have learned these past few weeks that I disassociate. This was my coping mechanism. However it removes all trust and especially trust in yourself and your agency.

Whoever said you've got to be completely pulled apart is correct, you do. I strongly suspect you have c-PTSD and PTSD from your relationships.

My advice is to go to the Dr. Explain you need a psychiatric referral. If Dr is in agreement, ask that they prescribe Fluxotine. Used to be Prozac.

The referral will take time to sort. In the mean time, hopefully Prozac will kick in. It may give you the space from your grief, yes I believe you are grieving, until you can be properly assessed.

This may be enough to see that you do disassociate- I can see the signs in your graphic writing about your Parents abuses.
You should be entitled to trauma therapy on the NHS.

In the meantime a great great help is to journal. I am already a writer and since Xmas I estimate I have written 50k on what I'm experiencing at the moment and what was done to me. And how the dark trick was pulled.

I've been on Prozac since March and it's been a tremendous help.

Someone has suggested c-PTSD before. I always assumed that flashbacks were like strong 'memories'. Is that not the case? It's more that situations etc make me feel the way I did but I dont recall specific incidents from my childhood.

I've had Prozac before. It didn't agree with me. Tbh, I don't feel the need for medication at the moment. I have done previously and have taken it but one day to day basis I'm much calmer and more settled.

I'm a bit worried about going back to the dr about it. I've been so many times over the years, been referred for so much counselling/therapy and been prescribed ADs periodically that I'm a bit ashamed to go back again. The first time I went about this was 28 years ago and I'm not really any better now than i was then. I just have greater insight into, and understanding of, myself.

I think it just depends on the person, the type of abuser, other life experiences etc

OP you mention that it's been on going for 28 years? A lot of time to life in emotional pain. You deserve better than that. You mention being ashamed of going back. Don't be!

It's your health. Only one life etc. One of the hideous ways c-PTSD manifests is as said, dissociation. This makes it incredibly difficult for a professional to spot as the very condition blinds you to the fact you need treatment. What became a useful coping mechanism also prevents you accessing treatment. Does this make sense.

You are in the thick of it and you can't see the wood for the trees.

Ok so Prozac might not work but there are others.

Come on OP, we're rooting for you!

It's really common to be plagued in therapy with a voice that says it's all too self indulgent and pitying. You have to keep talking to the therapist about it and plough on anyway. It lessens eventually, but that might take several years.

I'm not going to make any comment on what there NHS might provide because I don't know, but don't be ashamed about going back to the doctor. The only person who thinks you should be over this by now is you!

I take a bit of a "fuck it" attitude towards life - I don't hide behind 'but it might go wrong?' or 'what if I make a fool of myself' - I'm happy to push myself outside of my comfort zone and I'm not afraid to laugh at myself. I hope it's OK to quote this bit. It sounds like you managed that approach for doing lots of things in life, which is a massive credit to you. The thing about getting to know people on a personal level is that you have to apply the same approach to personal relationships. The way you send out a signal that you want to get to know someone like that is to offer pieces of personal information, ask personal questions, answer personal questions, honestly, without filtering out what you think might be unappealing or troubling to other people. This won't feel like an imposition to them, it will feel like an invitation into your life and an offer to reciprocate and hear about theirs.

For you it will feel like taking a massive risk and jumping off a bridge every time, until it starts to get less hard.

You know what might be helpful? A group. I'm really thinking about an experiential group, but they are quite hard to access, so group therapy might be the next best thing. It's terrifying and it might take you a long time to really be able to join in, but it's a really powerful way of learning abut how to connect with people and what people really feel about you, as opposed to the awful things you imagine.