I've realised that I'm really not very nice to know

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I seem to have rubbish social skills and I really need to do something about it as I'm lonely and I'm not going to be able to bring DS up properly unless I can do something about this. Even DP seems to have lost touch with most of his friends because they don't like me.

I'm finding it very hard to meet people at the moment with whom I have much in common, I think because my life has been very unconventional (I come from a very different background to the way I live now)and because I haven't had many opportunities to meet people recently, which is just making the whole situation worse.

The only friends I do have are people who themselves have really good social skills so they've been able to work round my uselessness.

I don't seem to be very good at making friends in the first place. I feel quite overawed by a lot of people, but I know I come across as being over-confident and very opinionated and a bit intimidating. I think I've learned to be less negative, which has helped a bit, but I don't think I've got much better at the other stuff even though I've been aware of it for a long time.

I would like to find out more about other people, but I find it difficult to ask people about themselves because I feel like I'm prying and I often panic and can't think of anything to say. That said, a lot of people I meet now, I don't find that interesting and I'm not very good at pretending I'm interested.

Quite often I sort of hear myself talking and know that I'm just showing off like a kid about things I've achieved. It turns me off when someone else does this, yet I don't seem to be able to take a step back.

i can relate, im a bit overbearing but dont realise until after and i think oh my god i cant belive myself sometimes.

oh dear think you are suffering from lack of self esteem and so you over-compensate with showing off and your opinions. You really need to learn to empathise and then you will connect with people better.
Try self help books to improve your self esteem and ask your partner for help.
How old are your children - can you meet others through their activities, when you have something in common you will find you are more interested and it is easier to speak.

I kind of know what you mean, especially about not being able to pretend you're interested in other people when you're not. I used to be able to do that but as I've got older I just can't be bothered anymore.

I need to make more friends too, but it is a lot of effort. I've always been one to have one or two really close friends rather than lots of aquaintances I suppose.

I think I often put my foot in it when I talk to other people and I always wonder why I say somethings afterwards.

I don't know what to do really, other than to tell you you're not alone.

Good luck, keep trying!

Thanks. I think you're right.

DS is just 1 - and I am meeting some lovely people at the local mother and baby group, but they are all Pakistani and left school at 16 - and aren't allowed to do things like just going out for a coffee as they're stuck being doemestic slaves, my background is posh, rural and white and have a postgraduate degree and so there there are even more social barriers to overcome. I'm very skint, so I can't afford to go and join in with groups where you have to pay (and would probably feel even more out of place with the kind of people I went to school with now)

oneplusone; it's getting older (I'm 33) has made me realise that I haven't grown up - that I haven't developed the graceful social skills that I thought would just miraculously arrive with another few birthdays - and now there are so many people a deacde younger than me who seem to have 'got it' while I'm still clueless. I'd like to be able chose whether to oil the social wheels or not - not constantly piss off people I actually like.

ONC - seems to me that there's nothing in your post to indicate that you're not very nice to know, so let's put that to one side .

I suspect that I'm a bit like you. First, my perception of myself (quiet, shy, mousy type) is, according to the couple of close friends that I have, woefully inaccurate (apparently due to the fact that as soon as any sort of controversial discussion takes place I wade in boots and all and refuse to back down when I know I'm right (I hasten to add, that I do back down when I only think I'm right ). And I'm really crap at small talk.

When I was on maternity leave I struggled to meet anyone that I "connected with" at baby/toddler groups - since the area we were living in was not that great. I'd suggest that you think of something that you really are interested in (not sure what you studied at university, but maybe something to do with that?) and then figure out how you can meet up, even occasionally, with some people that have the same interests.

As my good friend (who has lots and lots of friends and is great at social stuff) tells me, it's the quality of friendship, not the number of friends, that counts.

And maybe mumsnet will help you meet a few people that you like, who have children for DS to meet as well!

Where are you?

Legalalien: I'm in inner-city Birmingham and what I studied (and what I'm into) is anything outdoors and muddy, wildlife, mountains, swimming in lakes

Hi OP.

I just wanted to say that I am similar to you, in that I find it difficult to make friends and to keep friends, and I am not sure what vibes it is I give off to make this the case. I wasn't a 'normal' child, but I am not sure what your upbringing was. I find that I am one of those people, or rather I used to be one of those people, that others found it easy to walk all over and spit on. When I was at uni I was part of a group of 4 friends, one girl designating herself the ring leader; I am quite a friendly person and will mix with anyone and so used to spend people with other people on the course as well, often ones she didn't like. And other people did like me... not enough to become good friends who saw each other outside maybe, but we all got on, whereas K had enemies because of her ways. But she pushed me and pushed me until in my final term at uni I just gave in - I was so ill and just couldn't be bothered anymore. I just stopped talking to them all, left feeling it was my fault.

But what I realise now is that if others don't like me for who and what I am and represent, then that is actually their own baggage and not mine. I have had lengthy therapy which has helped with this, but I also matured throughout uni and became a more confident (within myself) person. I never have and never will be 'out there' and making people become my friends. But if people want a friend like me then I am open and friendly to new relationships; if they don't like me then I am happy they are not in my life because I don't need that kind of baggage. What I am and what I can offer depends on all the things that have happened to me up to this point in my life, and there will always be someone out there who likes me for who I am.

I moved away from my friends so that I could be with my husband; after uni my best friend moved down here to join the police force. But we don't talk now because I felt SHE was using me as a 'make my life seem better' friend.

Not everyone finds it easy to make friends, however that case may seem to apply. Even the most confident people can find it hard, because you can't just force yourself onto people. What I find usually happens is I might join a club related to my interest or something, and because we have those shared interests we are usually alike and begin to talk and make friends. After several weeks I'll invite them for coffee and it becomes a regular thing, and then we start going out places and confiding in each other. It's hard, but you become more confident the more people you approach like this and the more people of varying ages, sexes, creeds, that you talk to.

Good luck. It is always nice, when there is no one elsewhere, to feel part of a family of forum users who seem to be your cyberlife friends.

ONC - I am a nanny for a very posh family, and they are no different in their insecurities. I know you say you come from that background anyway, but you also say you would feel left out. The dad comes out with things in front of his friends that make me pmsl, because it is just plain showing off. They force themselves onto each other. In a social respect we are all the same. My bosses and their friends don't have a lot of time for me but I couldn't really give a damn as I find them pretentious and self-appreciating w*nkers. You need to try and find some free local groups or even just go to the park or something, and just get chatting. It doesn't matter about background, although I agree you need to find someone you can actually meet up with and also someone you have stuff in common with, but just talking to other people can sometimes save your sanity. Try other toddler groups as well.

Also do not underestimate the power of the friendship between husband or partner and wife. That friendship, while you are close and together, will never leave you and you will always feel someone is on your side. Other people will flit in and out of your life as and when they please, but he will stick by you. You can't be that bad to know!!!

Hi Tiredfedupnanny. I was lonely as a young kid and didn't make friends - I bullied others occasionally, but have rarely been bullied, I was very clever but was generally loud and constantly trying to grab adult attention. I got expelled from school at 12 for winding the teachers up too far (although not difficult to get expelled from a very prissy girls'school). My self-esteem crashed and has never really recovered. Went to a comp, was much more reserved and was lonely for about a year and then fitted right in to a big group of friends and was really happy. 6th form, again I had quite a large group of friends, but sort of fitted into an existing group. At uni I did the same - got involved in sports and knew plenty of people to go drinking with. Most of my early jobs were the same, or I spent periods being pretty lonely. But the path I've taken has been very different and the last few years I've been temping in jobs I'm overqualified for and I just don't fit. Being a SAHM is about the same. I have to learn how to make friends and sustain friendships and I've always relied on others to do that for me, or just had no social life.

I've recently lost several people I thought of as friends as I'm not able to prop them up anymore (financially and practically) since having DS and stopping paid work, and they're not able to accept that - and obviously they only wanted me as a 'friend' for what I could do for them.

I don't feel able to join any clubs as I don't have any money or the things I'm interested in don't really work with a young child - and as I can't afford a babysitter, I'd need a friend to look after him. Which I don't have. Self-help books are an option; therapy would be much too expensive.

Even on MN I seem to get the tone wrong or say the wrong things. I think I just jump in with something self-centred rather than contributing to the conversation.

ONC, forgive a butt-in but it actually sounds more like you're suffering from mild depression than any fault with your social skills. DOn't underestimate how hard it is to be at home all day with a young child: feeling miserable and useless and as though everything's your fault is extremely common. Are you eating/sleeping reasonably well?

Don't worry too much about how your friendships will affect your LO, kids very soon start making friends for themselves and most of the time your kids will become friends with kids who have parents that you don't care for or have nothing in common with.M&T groups can be absolutely grim especially if you're the odd one out (oldest/youngest/only WOHM or SAHM/whatever) b ut it's worth checking out as amny different onex as your area has got, because they are all different in terms of the pople who go there.

I don't get on very well with a lot of other mums at some of the M&T groups I take my DS to, but then I think they're particularly stupid mundanes so I don't take much notice of them - some of the others are OK but then I have plenty of childfree mates who I can see.
Have you tried any net groups that are about stuff you enjoy and care about that's nothing to do with parenthood? You might find fellow hobbyists in your area.
Best of luck anyway, and don't put yourself down. Not being like the rest of the herd isn't a bad thing, after all.

I think alot of people feel like you do. Many apparently socially skilled people are simply acting much of the time (pretending to be interested etc).

Well, to me, you sound very aware of yourself as an individual and how you may come across to others. I don't know how you come across as I don't know your alter-ego.

I am a bit different to you: I was always very clever but I was the bullied one for varying reasons. I was only bullied til I was 12 and built myself a facade or there were other people to bully. I have never been part of big groups of friends but have always had smaller groups of friends that I would say could all confide in each other and depend on each other. We'd go out places, sure, but the overriding thing was that we could all trust each other and rely on each other; we were able to be so close because we were such a small group. But I have always found myself wishing I had been part of that larger group: I played lots of sport at school but never quite fitted into the associated groups. I changed school lots due to my mum's job, and always seemed to make friends with the same sorts of people: quiet but lots of fun; stand in the background and watch it all kick off, and though this may sound shallow, a lot of my friends were both male and gay. I still talk to some of those friends, but rarely see them because of distance. As I said, my best friend from school is no longer around. When I went to uni I found it hard as I commuted from 40 miles away every day, so I didn't have the social side of it as much, but in jobs I have always, these days, been able to find myself 'the fun one' or 'the one liked by everyone'. That has helped my confidence a lot and so I have been able to begin to form bonds, but it still doesn't buy friends.

Friends are odd because if you ARE part of a large group then the majority will either not know you in the same way as a minority of the group, and others of the group may use you for one thing or another. From having smaller groups of friends I have found it easier to form tighter bonds. But whatever type of friendships work for you and make you happy, are what you should seek out.

I wouldn't try to change yourself too much because you are who you are, and you will either show your natural self in the end or will appear false. There is nothing wrong with who you are; it is simply other people's perceptions of who you are. I wonder if you may need to let down this barrier to people who are not the same as you; by that I mean people who have less money or worse prospects, as they will undoubtedly like other things you like... the same films, the same books, outdoor activities. You may find you build a pretty tight friendship with someone who is different to you in so many ways but almost to the point where you are the same. I would hate to be friends with only people educated to postgrad standard like me, or only people with a comfortable financial background like me, or just people with horses like me. The idea of mixing with different people can seem scary, but I love a mix and to be able to go to different people for different things.

I do, however, agree with you that maybe the pakistani mothers aren't friend material for you, and likewise, if you are temping somewhere and haven't yet found some common ground with some other employees, it would be best to close the door to that idea. But don't give up hope and don't blame yourself. We are all products of things that happened in our pasts, things which cannot change, and things which others have to accept as part of us. People who will be true friends are attracted to you because you are someone they like and feel they can strike a balance with, rather than feeling you have something material to offer; so those people have to accept other parts of you that may or may not be desirable to them (and we all have undesirable elements).

scattyspice:

It is true that many people pretend to be interested, but I do find that in order to not appear rude or lacking in social etiquette, it is always necessary to at least pretend to be interested, even if you can't find a part of the conversation you are truly interested in. Walking away and telling the person that what they are saying is rubbish and you can't stand there listening to them for fear you may fall asleep... well that's rude!

But I agree with you: most people who seem to make all of these friends and spend their lives out of the house socialising, they do eminate some kind of confidence that is attractive, but they also have to pretend some or most of the time. My bosses are two cases in point (knobs!).

Hi Madamez: I'm usually slightly depressed - but not seriously enough to get NHS treatment apart from drugs which I'm not willing to take. But this is normal for me, since I was a kid and seems to run in my family - I usually just keep busy and try to do things to help others which makes me feel better. I'm sleeping a lot and eating too much (am 3 1/2 stone heavier than before was pg with DS and pretty upset about the way I look) and arguing with DP (also fairly normal) he's both amazing for putting up with me and for the stuff he does, but trapped by his own self-esteem issues and irritating the hell out of me as a result.

I like the idea of joining some online groups of people who are into some of the things I like - will give it a try.

TFN I think you have to pretend sometimes (like when playing with DCs or listening to DH go on about his hard day LOL)

I think there is a difference between lacking social skills and not being a very nice person.

As others have said the showing off is linked to low self esteem and is something I used to do when I lacked confidence which I have repaired by attending self help groups and lots of self reflection.

I don't really lack social skills but I can sometimes feel awkward in social situations especially as I was for a few years thrust into an environment with people whom I had little in common with. I am also quite a reserved person who sometimes just cannot be bother with banal social niceties as I quite like my own company and time to think and reflect. I used to think this was some kind of defect in my personlality but it isn't and if people can't deal with that then that is their problem - but it took many years of therapy and self reflection to get there.

I don;t think you sound like a not very nice person at all and that is coming from someone who knows that she has very unlikeable traits, I do think however that you you could benefit from spending some time thinking about hwo you relate to people, pondering over your positive attributes and finding a way to meet people that you think you have things in coomon with. How about some voluntary work this way you wil widen your social circle and start to feel more positive about yourself as you do some good for others?

Tiredfedupnanny. I feel like I'm better at it when I'm being false; if I'm just being nice to someone who's not really that interesting or when I'm not in the mood, it all works OK. I do think it's absolutely necessary to be able to get on superficially when you need to. But I would rather be on my own than go in for lots of superficial socialising like your bosses.

It's more when I let my guard down with people I actually like or would like to get to know more that the 'real me' just turns them off. Sometimes I can see what I've done (said something boorish or opinionated usually), sometimes they just seem to back away when I didn't think I'd said the wrong thing.

LOL scattyspice. I always have to pretend with DH (joking!!!)

ONC: was it you who said you like doing wet muddy outdoorsy stuff, as well? You might find (or even help to set up) some sort of outdoor walking group for mums with LOs - get lightweight buggies andrain covers, wellies for the ones who are on their feet and go jump in lots of puddles. Being out in the wind and rain is actually quite good for DCs and fresh air and physical exertion almost always make a miserable person feel better (sorry that sounds a bit happy clappy and crap but it does kind of work).

how about counting to 10 before you "wade" in?,
i do know how you feel though. could you work part time? evenings even. make friends that way?

Good sense Mademez, I suffer from clinical depression and dp will often bundle a very grumpy, moody and tearful twinset into the car as we head off for a long walk in the lakes and nine times out of ten it does the trick.

have you tried the Ramblers?

I feel really sad for you. You actually do sound like a nice person: you are self-aware and you seem to have done lots of soul-searching. I don't particularly like going out an awful lot and enjoy my own company, but I think if you can enjoy your own company then that is a great place to start. I don't actually have many friends at the moment, but am always looking for doors that can be opened.

And if these people are put off when they see the real you, they sound a little shallow. As I said, we all have parts to pur personality that are undesirable (one of mine is becoming too clingy/needy sometimes), but people who want to be our friends can usually see the good over the bad.

I actually don't know what to suggest, but the online forums sounds like a great idea as they can always lead to meet-ups as well. Also remember there are other people out there with the same traits that you present.

madamez: that sounds like a fantastic idea - will look into how to do it