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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Abusive ex and DD

15 replies

tootyfruitypickle · 07/07/2019 08:22

Mumsnet helped me leave an extremely abusive relationship more than 5 years ago, and I'm hoping I can get some advice now.

The abuse from my ex has continued over text, email, phone etc, for 5 years now. I've finally got through the divorce, got the house sold - all of it involved court (my instigation, to get this done). So Ive blocked him, am going to go grey rock now.

ex during the process has seen dd eow up to a year ago, then he moved away so it changed to some holidays. On a couple of occasions DD has refused contact, because, on most visits he has ranted at her at some point about my evilness. This is not just shouting, this is ranting so you can't get away, really angry, following you around , blocking you in room. This was the behaviour that made me leave - not even the violence- but this shouting and the losing temper out of the blue, never knowing what would provoke it. So he's doing it to dd. I had hoped that once the divorce was finished it would stop, as the ranting was about me, but recently he did it again as she was on her phone when he was talking to her - (which reminds me of him ranting at me when I got pregnant, and my attention was less on him than on the baby.) She said this occasion was absolutely awful and was just like how he and I were. So I know that now the abuse will continue onto her.

He doesn't live near now so the contact recently has been limited, and at times I have stopped it when she comes back distraught, she stopped it a couple of times but now I take on the baton to prevent her having to make that decision. He makes lots of phone contact although I think too much - he expects her to pick up immediately every day he calls (will call call 4/5 times in a row) and texts throughout the day. I have encouraged her to respond as quickly as possible.

He is now talking about moving nearer, which is hellish for me, but it was only last night that I mentioned to her that this would involve eow, which we haven;t had for a year after he moved away. She was absolutely devastated , really hysterically crying, saying her life would be ruined, because every other weekend he would shout at her.

I now have decided I won't agree to eow.

What I can't decide - is whether to tell him. I can't tell him now as we have the summer coming up and she is going to him for 2 separate weeks. He will rant at her about it. So do I tell him at the end, hope this stops his move nearer, or do I just let it happen but refuse to send her eow. I've said to her we would need to offer something - e.g. every other sunday day time (limit the risk of ranting ), maybe a dinner at his in the week, or every first weekend of the month, or something. She was still crying too much too be able to speak about it.

Obviously - this is not right that she should cry like this at the thought of spending time with her parent. I now regret having set up the weeks with him the summer although she doesn't seem too bothered about this at the moment, I think because it's not a regular - for the rest of her life - type arrangement. And she knows I won't send her on the second week should he rant at her the first week.

What should I do? He has been threatening court. She is just 11. I've got a document with most of the abuse towards her (and some of what I get) logged. He actually wants mediation but Ive told him to jog on about that - tried that in divorce and I just got the abuse all over again .

I'm now going to stop making her respond to his phone messages too - and am going to go completely grey rock - which i have been rubbish at tbh, I get sucked in every time into defending myself when he sends me abusive - and after 5 years I should have learnt. I am hoping if we both go a bit quieter he will drop his plans to move nearer. He has family where he lives now. Here he only has dd.

OP posts:
BlueMoon1103 · 07/07/2019 08:39

Quite honestly I would ask your DD if she wants to have contact with him and if not I’d take steps to keep him away from her. No way would someone intimidate and abuse my DS and I’d still send him there! I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. Poor you and DD :(

PurpleWithRed · 07/07/2019 08:44

Do you have a court agreement for contact or is it by agreement? I'm not sure how it works but could you investigate the likely outcome if you looked for a court agreement that takes your daughter's wishes into account now she is old enough to have a say?

7yo7yo · 07/07/2019 08:44

Just stop contact.
Change her number and cut contact.
Call him once a week from a withheld number and that’s it.
She is too young to deal with the abuse and that’s what it is.

Sarahjconnor · 07/07/2019 08:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tootyfruitypickle · 07/07/2019 09:25

Thank you all this is massively encouraging.

In the past she has had some help at school with counselling when she stopped contact with him - this was her choice. This has happened twice but has been ok since he moved away (which on reflection bolsters the argument not for eow). There was an issue at Xmas when I had to go and collect her early too. She has been mentally ok now for about a year - which does completely coincide with him moving away and less physical contact. There was a point when she was having panic attacks due to his behaviour and very bad anxiety - I'd say now she and I have a total handle on it and are very in sync and close and we talk a lot about anything that worries her - so she doesn't get overly anxious these days as it doesn't build up. There was a point though that I was very worried about her. I'm not sure how much of this was formally documented, I think I did visit the GP at one point.

She seems worse mentally during periods of no contact - this can be due to the event that has prompted the no contact but it also seems to be due to the no contact itself. Eg she is keen he comes to major events, shows, birthdays etc, and is very upset at any suggestion he may not.

The best outcome has seemed to be regular phone (text mainly) contact (although not as frequent as he tries!) and occasional stays at his - although tbh she's never keen to go -but does come back after short visits happy.

I feel reassured that I am giving him too much rope now and will reduce it. I will stop reminding her to reply to his texts and calls, she can just do it when she wants. It doesn't seem to bother her too much to have a lot of messages from him - but she doesn't always reply. He is in insistent that she should call him not just him call her and I have said that's ridiculous but tried to get her to call him - I won't be doing that anymore. I also think he is using her to try and control /gain access to me so I really do need to stop my engagement with him now.

We have agreed the summer - 2 separate weeks and I think she will do the first week. If there is an issue there- that will be the last full week he gets as enough is enough now. It works best when he plans lots of disney-dad style days out when he has her. Although the last conversation we had was that he wouldn't have her that week as I wouldn't agree to 2 weeks! So that would be good....

She is scared of him and I think she would tell a court that . She has told me she only feels safe with me. She is old enough that I could explain that she would need to be be completely honest if it came to court and she'd have to say exactly how she feels and what she wants. It would be awful of course.

I don't think he will go to court, he keeps threatening it but in the end he is a cowardly bully and I don't think he will do it. I am not interested in seeking a court agreement - we had a lot of court appearances over the divorce, I've also had to get a non-mol in the end and I have had enough plus I just refuse to spend thousands of pounds more on his crap. Better spent on a holiday for me and dd.

What I'm not sure about is whether I should make it clear to him that he won't be getting eow - as he has said in the past he won;t move nearby unless that is set in stone. I am thinking that i will let the summer happen and then tell him. Of course the risk is that that will prompt him into court action. He may just decide not to move near anyway. So I'm a bit undecided plus it breaks the non-engagement and fires up the battleground again which seems to be something he thrives on. But on balance I'm thinking it might be best to email that to him in early Sept - even if he decides to buy a house that could still stop it - I'm pretty sure he's not even looking yet. Is it better to make it clear to him over no eow or just stay out of contact and just refuse it if he does move near? Anything though that can stop him coming nearer to us would be a benefit.

OP posts:
WomanLikeMeLM · 07/07/2019 09:36

.

aweedropofsancerre · 07/07/2019 09:45

I am going to sound harsh but Unfortunately your allowing this abusive man to continue his abuse through his DD. I am not sure why you would be encouraging her to respond quickly to his messages, your getting her to mirror your own responses. You need to get help for yourself and protect your DD from this abusive man. She sounds truly terrified and I wouldn’t be facilitating contact. Let him go through the courts.

tootyfruitypickle · 07/07/2019 09:55

No it's not harsh it's helpful. And you are right about the mirroring. We've been selling the home for 18 months and I needed his cooperation to do so, so I got into a pattern of behaviour where I tried not to anger him. Before then I was in this pattern because I didn't want him to take out his anger on dd. But now he has no hold over me at all , the only connection is dd. So I am trying to work out the path forwards. No contact at all has not seemed to be good for her in the past. She has said to me this weekend she does want contact, but she does;t want it to be a fixed routine - which would leave her open to seeing him even when he is behaving appallingly. She wants the choice. I've asked her about the summer week - and she has said she is happy to go. If anything happens between now and then and she changes her mind, she won;t have to go. I think the path needs to be one of reducing contact, rather than expanding it as he wishes. If this happens gradually it should have less effect on dd as she gets busy with friends etc into her teenage years - the problem has been when she feels guilt over no contact so it needs to be something that she does;t feel is down to her but just an organic path. But you are right I do enable him and I am now in a situation where there is no reason that i have to - I don;t need him to sign an agreement, he can;t enter my home anymore. I am free of him and what I need to work out now is the best way for DD to deal with him.

OP posts:
tootyfruitypickle · 07/07/2019 10:08

Interestingly I've just remembered that he has said to me a few times that he can't go to court because he'll be painted as an abusive parent. So that may stop him. I need to hold onto that and behave as I see is right for dd rather than worrying about what he will do. My worst nightmare is that we will go to court and they will force dd to a pattern of visitation she doesn't want and the fear of that has led me to enable his abuse. But that is how I have always behaved - I've always tried to placate him to stop him taking it out on dd / refuse to sell the house etc. I really need to stop this pattern now. If he takes it out on dd then that's it, she doesn't go to stay with him again - all he will get (at the most) is taking her out for a day - and I am also going to stop pick up and drop offs from my home from now on.

OP posts:
aweedropofsancerre · 07/07/2019 11:37

It sounds tough. But your doing the right thing to allow her the control to choose. Hugs to you both as my father was abusive to my DM and it continued when he left too

Jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2019 11:58

Tooty I have been where you are now and my heart goes out to you and your DD. I totally understand what you mean by ranting. My exH used to do the same and it's like torture. I used to feel exhausted after being subjected to his rants that I would be forced to listen to and locked in the house sometimes.

He also continued these rants about me to our DC which would carry on for hours during his contact. I didn't know about it for years until my DC one day told me everything (there was also physical abuse) so I stopped all contact completely.

I'm going to be blunt. You need to stop all contact, block him on everything and keep all evidence you currently have. He is emotionally abusing your DD and if you found his rants difficult, imagine how hard that is for a child who is terrified of him. She is too young to process what he is doing and it will leave her severely emotionally damaged and likely to seek out abusive relationships when she is older. You HAVE to stop the cycle of abuse now.

Let him take you to court for access (you can deny mediation because of previous DV). How old is your DD as the court will place much more weight on a child not wanting contact if they are 12 and over (but will consider her viewpoint either way). At the very most, this guy should only be allowed indirect contact via letters or email or limited supervised contact at a contact centre. Personally I would fight even against that as he will be able to escalate contact from there onwards if he is consistent. Unfortunately fathers like this are given way too many chances by the courts.

If you are lucky, he will lose interest and stop fighting for contact anyway (as his motives are about control of you and DD, not about having a loving relationship with her).

You should stop encouraging your DD to reply and have an honest conversation about cutting contact with her. I did this with my DC and they agreed to stop the limited phone contact he had with them. I'm quite lucky as my ex is now in prison so we dont have to worry about this for a few more years but I doubt he would ever get contact issued by the court now anyway.

Help your DD come to terms with not having a father in her life, as no father is better than an abusive one. Stop having any expectations of him being a good father or being able to co parent and stop giving him further chances to abuse your DD. It will never happen, he will never be reasonable and never have your DD's best interests at heart. Try and get her some emotional support too. My local womens centre offered a 6 week outreach programme for my DC so yours may have similar services.

Cutting my ex out of our lives was the best thing I ever did. My DC no longer have to dread answering the phone or worry about what he will say or do so now they have the space and energy to heal. We dont even talk about him anymore. He non existent to us and I only wish I had done it years sooner and not placated him the way you are doing now.

Try and heal from the abuse you have suffered and try to get to the bottom of why you found yourself with this man. I only say this because if you dont heal, you will be much more likely to end up in another abusive relationship in the future.

Your ex sounds identical to mine so I know the strength it has taken you to leave and get this far. You need to find that strength again to finally cut this horrible abusive shitbag out of your and your DDs life forever!

Whatisthisfuckery · 07/07/2019 12:03

I have had a very similar situation with my DS. He’s NC now but I know contact with his dad is a constant itch that he wants to scratch.

I stopped him from visitation because his father is an alcoholic. I had no idea of the magnitude of his problem for a long time, but when I saw I refused to allow DS to go anymore, which DS was relieved about. They continued telephone contact for a while, which the SW told me to monitor. DS would talk to his father on speaker phone and I’d listen in, although I’d only speak if I had to intervene for any reason. telephone and text contact was finally stopped because DS’s dad would basically spend the entire phone call offloading all his shit onto DS, but more seriously, he was sending DS texts encouraging him to leave the house without my knowledge and meet him in secret.

I’ve told DS that he can speak to his dad if he wants, but usual rules of engagement apply. He texted him the other day but quickly got annoyed with his usual shit so re-blocked.

OP I can only suggest that you try a similar tack with your DD. She can have as much or as little contact as she feels comfortable with and you should monitor it.Regarding face to face, if she wants to go then fine, but make it clear that she doesn’t have to if she doesn’t want to. Also you need to put a stop to it if you feel it’s causing her a lot of upset. You’re her mother, you have to make the big decisions if they need to be made.

Your ex clearly already knows exactly how the court will view him so I’d not worry too much about that. If he wants to instigate proceedings then he knows what he’s in for. You can always call DV Assist and ask about a Prohibited Steps Order if you’re worried. They’re free and they’re very helpful.

Other than that I’d let her take the lead but monitor carefully, and don’t forget it’s your job to step in and limit harm if you feel it’s necessary.

Jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2019 12:12

Sorry, I've just seen your DD is 11. I'm pretty sure her viewpoint would weigh heavily in court but I dont trust the system anymore and have seen cases where the DC didnt want contact and it was granted anyway (despite CAFCASS recommending no contact).

Also, if your DD is agonising over the decision and feeling guilty for not contacting him, I think you should step in and take that decision out of her hands.

She is too young to understand her father is abusing her. You know he is and you have to protect her from this, even if she becomes upset about not having contact at times, it is all in her best interests. The sooner she learns to not expect any kind of support from this man, the better as either way she will figure out his motives when she is an adult. He will be able to use this 'regular' contact to show to the courts how great he is too. Stop allowing it and he will likely lose interest anyway. I know it may feel like a waste of money but if he does take you to court, hire a solicitor straight away. You need to pull out all of the stops to fight it

BonneMaman77 · 07/07/2019 14:14

OP, surely if he is that abusive you should look into it? You've left the marriage and your DD has put up with this now? on her own? Surely that isnt right. How about supervised visits in public places etc?
And like people say if you can't trust the courts through social services alone, get a psychologist to assess her experience and a lawyer.

You should protect your child from this abusive man

Pikapikachooo · 08/07/2019 22:14

I would let the courts handle it
And if you can get a DVA to advise
It’s absaloutely harrowing that he is putting this on her
There is an advice line for therapy for kids in this situation I will send it tomorrow if you like
I think she has every right to not see him . And she should be able to exercise that . Keep notes as it’s a heavy burden on her

Onwards . You have made the brave step , and now sadly the second battle starts to support your DD
Flowers

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