How did you know the love was truly gone?

[ghostedgirl]

Seems like a strange question, I'm sure.

My husband and I are talking about separation and while most of me wants to and believes it's the right thing to do, we did have a pretty grand love affair for some years there. I thought my feelings towards him were dead because he's caused me so much pain, but every now and then I get a flicker so wonder whether it's still there buried underneath all the toxic shit that's accumulated in our relationship.

We're finally seeking couples counselling because he wants to stay in the marriage, but I'm seriously wondering whether there's a point. Whether or not things change between us and become functional is one thing, but if we go through all of that only to find it's too late and I don't love him anymore it will just prolong the pain.

How do you know for sure?

I'm not sure the love has to be fully, completely gone for divorce to be the right decision for you. Did he cheat? Do you have DCs?

For me the, the love would be gone "enough" to just split up if he did something that meant I didn't even know who he was anymore (like cheating or abuse). If I basically still liked him as a person but was just bored or little resentments had accumulated, I'd think therapy was worth trying.

@NotJustACigar We have one child and he didn’t cheat, but we have had significant problems in our relationship for years. He has anger management issues, makes stupid decisions, puts his family before us and our communication is pathetic. It’s only through an ultimatum he’s agreed to counselling. He always said we had no problems. Now he’s saying our problems are easily and quickly fixed. I don’t agree.

Good luck with you decision @ghostedgirl I believe there's a few of us here with the same quandary

@pashola Yes, I just saw the other thread. It’s not a nice predicament to be in. I almost feel either decision would be better than living in the limbo I am in now.

I'm in the limbo as well and feel like I just need to make a decision and deal with the consequences, I've always had trouble making decisions though.
I've heard it said that if the decision is not clear then maybe it's time to leave the relationship.

I begged my husband for years to go to counselling and he refused, once I gave an ultimatum and he said "that's a really hard decision and he'd have to think about it" I still stayed 🙄

Therapy can be useful in helping you make the decision - it isn't just about staying together but about finding the best outcome for your situation. If that outcome is divorce, it can help you get to a point where you'll have the"best" divorce possible - i.e. the most amicable. Your therapist should speak to you both individually before starting the joint sessions to find out what you're hoping to get out of therapy. As you have a child I'd say it's worth spending the time to do this properly although I understand the desire to make a decision right away to be done with the state of limbo.

Agree with the PP who said that the love doesn't need to be all gone for separation to be the right decision. I still feel those flickering of love for my ex, and the only times I see him are in court! Your husband sounds like he doesn't care much (if anything) about your feelings. Just because he's gone from dismissing them outright to saying they can be easily fixed doesn't mean he suddenly is a kind, considerate, non-British person. Believe yourself and do what's right for you.

Non-British?! Non-selfish!

@pashola I begged my husband for years to go to counselling and he refused, once I gave an ultimatum and he said "that's a really hard decision and he'd have to think about it" I still stayed 🙄

So sad. I begged for years and was ignored too. So by the time I gave the ultimatum I was in such a state of fury unlike he’d ever seen he finally agreed. Now he’s saying I’m the one giving up and don’t want to try. But the reality is I’m the only one who has looked for solutions to problems in our relationship and was willing to work on them while he just consistently shut me down. Such a clusterf*.

Interesting comment about leaving if the answer isn’t clear.

@taiwalish Haha. I wondered how you knew he was non-British!

@taiwalish I just wonder why these men bother to stay in these relationships when they know the person they’re with is unhappy. What’s the f*ing point of a relationship if you don’t care about the other person’s feelings? What’s in it for them?!

@NotJustACigar Yes, I am kind of hoping that if it becomes evident there’s nothing left to salvage that counselling can help us separate more amicably. Maybe I will tell the counsellor this immediately and that’s reason enough to go ahead with attending sessions.

Well, if you don't care about other people's feelings then caring about another person will never be your motivation for being in a relationship. It could be so many things: convenience of having someone do the wirework in your life, feeling powerful, enjoying the comfort another person's kind presence brings to your cold heart... My ex is a very self-centered and angry person, but he completely leans on women, for anything, really. Feeling loved, being taken care off, being worried about, feeling powerful/safe when he feels very scared about life and people underneath, getting sympathy, getting money. You name it, he'll look for a woman who will give it to him. The idea that he could relate to a woman as a person in her own right rather than a giving-machine is completely alien to him. Your husband is not thinking about you and what is good for you when he tells you what he thinks should happen. So that will have to be your job...

Sigh, wirework=wifework.

@taiwalish So abstract. As shit as you and I feel right now at least we’re not the kind of person you describe above, ie your ex. What a wasteful and desperate way to live.

So sad. I begged for years and was ignored too. So by the time I gave the ultimatum I was in such a state of fury unlike he’d ever seen he finally agreed. Now he’s saying I’m the one giving up and don’t want to try. But the reality is I’m the only one who has looked for solutions to problems in our relationship and was willing to work on them while he just consistently shut me down. Such a clusterf.

@ghostedgirl This is EXACTLY how it is for me too.
My DH is going to counselling and trying so so hard and it would break his heart if we separated permanently, whereas I'm the one being a bit apathetic about it, probably because I've spent the last 7+ years doing nothing but trying to fix it myself!

@pashola I bet there are lots of cases like this. I also bet your husband acts like this has come out of the blue, despite the fact you've been raising the issues for years. My husband thinks love conquers all and claims I never loved him. Says why would I have stayed with such a "monster" for so long if the problems were so bad. Such a nonsense.

I feel like I've used up the (previously abundant) supply of emotional intelligence I had that was devoted to him and saving our marriage long ago while he either had none or spent it elsewhere and now I'm scraping the bottom of a very dry barrel.

Take love out of the equation and make a list of all the things that make a relationship work - like trust, respect, liking each other, ability to communicate (and so on)

If you have none of those then there's nothing to save. 'love' is a meaningless concept without the rest. It's just a word, a feeling, an ideal.