Babies driven us apart

[360mum]

Is it too much to ask my mum to be there for me at 32? I'm going through some big changes in my life and just wanted some advice - and she was tired and said she feels like some sort of counsellor.

It feels like she's done with me and I need her advice more than ever. I'm a first time mum to twins. My in laws help loads - I know this isn't my entitlement. I just feel like she can't help because she's depressed in her own little world.

All my friends have mums that support them still. Not in a babyish way just listen to them, talk to them and have a relationship. Babies have driven my mum and I apart.

Hi @360mum, it must be really challenging with twins so props to you for making it so far! I'm sorry that you feel disappointed in the level of your Mums engagement in you/your twins lives.

You say she depressed - perhaps that's why she can't face the craziness that is not just one but two babies on a regular basis if she feels like she has a a lot on her plate? I see you've said she depressed about her own 'little world' but I think you need to change your perspective on this. Of course some people have it much harder than others, so their problems seem insignificant to you, but she may well be finding life just as hard as you even though her problems aren't as bad.

I think when you stop expecting her to help and lower your expectations then you'll feel better. As you say yourself, your babies are not her responsibility and you already get a lot of her from your PILs.

Fwiw, my mum helps out my sister a lot with free childcare, moral support over the phone, financial help etc, and yet she's never even looked after my son for 5 minutes, neither have my PILs come to think of it. However, I expect nothing from them so I am never disappointed when I get nothing back. I also see streams of nannies and grandads at playgroup or travelling for hours to look after their grandchild for the day every week in my mum friend groups. Of course I can feel a bit jealous or resentful but life is full on enough with a toddler to give myself even more to worry about so I just let it go.

Do you have much support from your DP? Have you looked at the TAMBA website for support from other multiple parents?

My own mother became emotionally distance, further unsupportive and disinterested when she became a grandmother. I realise now that this process started long before I became a mother myself.

I am sorry your mother is the ways she is towards you but you did not make her that way and nor for that matter did your babies. You as individuals are not actually the root cause here and it is not your fault she is like this. You write that she is depressed in her own little world, that has an awful lot more to do with her state of mind. Sadly you cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped.

What does your partner here think of your mother?.

Continue to accept the help from your inlaws particularly if they are good people. You may also want to get in touch with TAMBA as they are for parents with twins, triplets and quads www.tamba.org.uk/

My dh is amazing. We support each other. I'm just so disappointed. Thanks for your replies.

I think it’s a positive thing that your mum has been able to be honest with you, telling you the limits of what she can give (that she’s feeling like your counsellor), rather than just going along with it and feeling more and more out upon and things getting even worse.

This is going to sound really harsh, you’re entitled to feel upset and down that this isn’t how you imagined the bond between you when you became a mother yourself, but your mum doesn’t owe you any help or support. If she wants to give you that and she’s able to that’s wonderful. In my own experience only a few lucky people end up with the type of parents/in-laws who are involved with their kids, offer care and support, willing to be there for emotional support etc. not everyone is capable of that level of input. Not everyone wants to. She’s done her parenting duties in raising you and as awful as it sounds now you’re both adults the relationship has to be one that works and is willing on both sides.

You may feel you need her more than ever but I assure you, you’ll get by without her. Keep your relationship light for a while and remember you don’t know what she’s going through in her own life (and she might not even tell you) and listen to her, she’s not the person right now for you to go to overly for support or advice. Hopefully if you are in need of those things you know of other places to seek that help, whether it’s close friends, your in laws, a professional like a therapist, charities like Sure Start if they’re in your area.

Very few people end up with this idyllic scenario with loving involved grandparents at their beck and call yet it’s made out to be essential and mandatory. Families are far more complex than that. And if your mother has depression I think it’s important to recognise she’s unwell and may not even be capable of giving you the support you want right now. Obviously I don’t know why she feels like you’re asking too much of her, and she’s feeling overburdened like a counsellor, do you think you’ve been putting on her a lot recently?

I prefer to expect nothing from my parents/in laws and any help or support is seen as a lovely gift given willingly, but then I’ve always been pretty independent. They’ve done their roles in raising us and now they get to set the boundaries they work for them just like I do as an adult. Having set expectations of someone is a recipe for disaster. My own mum died a while ago sadly and I know I’ll miss her when I give birth to my first child later this year, but millions of people raise children without family support and do just fine, you’re very lucky to have supportive in laws!

You can’t help how you feel about this but you can help how you respond to her. If you’re really struggling with your feelings around this I don’t think trying to go to your mum and change how she feels is the way forward, I’d seek some therapy. If your twins are under a year old you’ll be fast tracked on the NHS IAPT service for therapy and skip the waiting list entirely.

That’s a wonderful reply FlatPackPat, very supportive and realistic.

Not everyone has that from their mum OP. I didn’t and most of my friends don’t. A lot have mums living abroad or working full time so zero help apart from the odd weekend babysitting. You’re not alone and if you are wanting every day help from her then you’re being unreasonable. Join a multiple birth support group. Book to go see a counsellor weekly. Start hiring a nanny/babysitter to get out. Look into local gyms that have a crèche. Mine has a crèche attached and is included in the membership fee. You can then put both in while you go for a swim. There’s lots you can do to stop relying on your mum for help/support. In a ideal world she’d be everything to you but she’s not and she can’t. It is what it is. Time to spread your network and find it elsewhere

"This is going to sound really harsh, you’re entitled to feel upset and down that this isn’t how you imagined the bond between you when you became a mother yourself, but your mum doesn’t owe you any help or support".

I agree but my mother used the, "well I've done my parenting" phrase as well as if all parenting support stops stone dead when you as their child hit 18. Its really a cop out and she did not seek or actually want to seek the necessary help.

I carved out a life for myself independently of parents (and my inlaws were not grandparents of the year either) but at times it was bloody hard going particularly in the early years. Using an agency called Sitters helped and I came to realise that it was indeed not my fault she was (and remains) the ways she is, I did not make her that way. Between the four of them, they have taught me abject lessons in how not to behave.

Thanks guys for your replies. I'm just heartbroken and need to find a way to be happy without her . I try and make it mutual but she doesn't seem to be interested in a relationship let alone being there for me. Just a quick hello, have a nice day type of messages. I just can't imagine being that pathetic that I don't want to be involved in my family's life. She really needs to get her act together or she's going to end up without us. Not through spite but because there will be nothing there anymore.
I feel like we're drifting apart.

360mum

It will take time but you will make a nice life for yourself and your children going forward.

My mother was very much the same and our relationship many years on has never really recovered. I am civil with her on the phone but that's as far as it goes really. She chose not to seek or even want to seek the necessary help but even now still throws herself into cleaning my childfree brother's showroom type home instead. He is single and thus more "helpless" in her eyes.

My mum helped me out in the early days with childcare while I was working but she always complained about it, grumbled about having a "job" when she was supposed to be retired and has to this day never once asked to see them just because she would like to. My cousin meanwhile is the most doting grandmother, I think her daughter is very lucky but I know it can feel suffocating. I wish my mum was different but she's not going to change. She was pretty cold with me when I was growing up as well.

Can I come in on the grandparent side?

People seem to assume that all grandparents are retired or with little jobs and nothing to do all day but potter about. Many of us have to work now well past the age we would like to retire, or are younger grandparents with one or sometimes two jobs just in order to support ourselves - we're often divorced and trying to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table is a struggle.

There is a picturesque expectation of grandparenthood, that the grey haired mum gives over her life to doting on her grandchildren, taking them on days out to give her daughter 'a break'. The only grandparents I've known to fit this stereotype have ended up complaining mightily about how it disrupts their lives and how exhausted they are.

I feel for you, OP, it must be tremendously hard for you, especially with twins. But I don't think anyone should 'expect' grandparents to step up. Nice if they do (but prepare for moaning...), but it shouldn't mean you cut them out of your life if they don't, won't, or simply can't.

I'm really not asking her to give her life. For example , my friend is having a baby and I message her to ask how she is also giving her things and she's in my thoughts a lot and I can't wait for the baby to be here because I care about her. It just seems normal to me. My mum is always flat, unenthusiastic about life. I know why she is but she doesn't do anything about it and quite frankly I don't have time for it anymore. I am just gutted because I have never needed her more. I am struggling and I will find a way but I can't imagine seeing someone struggle and not do anything about it especially when they're asking for help.

My mum was never very involved with my twins either, she was healthy, early 70s, retired but just wasn't that interested when they were babies, so I do get it, it's disappointing. She improved as they got older, I just don't think she was a baby person.

I remember visiting her, struggling in the doorway with two baby car seats, both crying as they were hungry and one would be left to cry in her carseat whilst I fed the other one ..... mum wouldn't pick her up or feed her. So odd. I can't imagine being like that with a stranger, let alone daughter/grandchildren.

360mum

I never expected or wanted any sort of childcare from my mother
(I was told by her when I was a teenager that she was not prepared to babysit or otherwise look after any children) but it would have been nice to have received a little bit of support and or understanding from her in the early years. Both were sadly lacking (and she was a housewife in her late 50s and healthy when my child was born). My mother chose to exclude herself, she shut that door.

My mother is of a similar bent to 360mum and is someone who fills her days by cleaning my brother's house and shopping. Unfortunately you cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped.

So frustrating. How do you get over the anger?

her . I try and make it mutual but she doesn't seem to be interested in a relationship let alone being there for me. Just a quick hello, have a nice day type of messages. I just can't imagine being that pathetic that I don't want to be involved in my family's life. She really needs to get her act together or she's going to end up without us.

The thing is, you seem to expect a degree of empathy and understanding from your mum for how difficult you’re finding it being a new mother, but you’re not extending any empathy or understanding towards her for going through depression. It almost sounds like you’ve decided that either she gets in line with your expectations of her or you’ll cut her out completely. Which is very much your decision, but seems foolish and unfair when you’re both dealing with stuff.

I think it can be hard to transition to seeing your parents as adults, just like you, when you’re grown up, for some people. Some find it impossible to see their parents as anything other than ‘my mum’, with all of the expectations that come with that (she must care for me, do this for me, always be there for me, show interest). But at this stage of life when you’re well into adulthood I think it would help to remember your mum is her own person as well as being your mother, with her own challenges to deal with too.

She is who she is, and if you can’t find a way to move past the anger into having some understanding for her or at least neutrality, I think the only way to get rid of the anger is professional help or estrangement. The latter will be a far longer and more painful journey (take it from someone who knows).

How much time did you spend with your DMum prior to having the twins? If your DMum is always flat and unenthusiastic about life perhaps she has depression. Have you suggested going with her to the Dr or even discussed it with her. You dont mention your DFather so I am wondering if DMum could be used to loneliness and now feels that she is only wanted now when you are up to your neck in domestic situations. There does not seem to be any concern that DMum might be having some physical ill health that she is not mentioning so that it does not take the shine off your new twins.
I know there are people who keep things very much inside. Maybe have a think about the possibility of DMum having a problem of some kind and is maybe not in a position to assist you.
Maybe DMum has a friend who is a Grandmother who is expected to help whether she is feeling up to it or even wants to. Maybe she is worried about becoming a full time childminder. Some Grandparents feel they have done their baby/child raising days. A lot of Grandparents feel their only worth to their adult children is babysitting and money providing.
Think about how much you have given to your DMum pre babies when perhaps she was sitting home alone and unhappy.

My mum became really distant with me last year after I had my baby. I eventually confronted her about it and it turned out she has been suffering from depression and she didn’t want to burden me with it. It was sad and hard not to have her support but after a while she got much better and we are now back to where we were before. I do think something about my birth may have had a part to play in her depression. Possibly my traumatic labour or just the realisation that as a grandmother she was now entering the last stage in her life. I hope things improve for you. I too have a very supportive mil and she has been brilliant.

Thank god I don’t have a mother like those described here. I’m sorry this post might not be helpful, but I want to say I understand how awful it must be - of course you want you mother to be there, fully supportive.

Your DM is flat and depressed and in her own little world. You take your problems to her and she is trying to tell you it is too much for her in her depressed state. OP, try and have some empathy and sympathy for her. She's got enough on her plate without your adding to her load. She's tried to be honest with you.

For now, just accept this as she isn't well enough to be the DM you need right now.

Get support from your DH, in-laws and HV until your DM is well enough to be able to offer support.

I always find if you give to others you may feel better so what about trying to support your mum? If she feels supported that may help her and have the knock-on effect of helping you too.