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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Random musings on my life

48 replies

TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 12:00

This will probably be long, but I'm so confused and I need to get it all out.

I'm about to turn 24 and my husband will turn 33 just before my birthday. We got married 4 years ago on Thursday.

I have a fantastic life: 2 horses, 2 cats, the giant rabbit I pined for (no euphemistic thoughts please!), a house with no mortgage which we are about to extend (which we don't need to borrow much to do as we have capital there) so we can have a child and maybe foster (which I want to do, not him as much), I had a brand new car last year which wasn't a biggy because it is so inexpensive to run that it leveled out cost wise with the running of my old Laguna. Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, so he's just had a new vehicle as well and we've had a new horse trailer and are going to sell the horse lorry and old cars. If I need new clothes/shoes/essential jewellery/toiletries, he will initially nag about the expense in an 'if we don't spend it on that, we will have it to spend on this' kind of way, but I usually get all that stuff because he will take me to buy it after I have forgotten about it IYSWIM - my parents were apart and money was tight, whereas his have always been comfortably off because of money left in wills, big properties etc... So we have very different views as a result, in that I would rather enjoy the money we have than regret not spending it when I die; he would rather save like fucking squirrel nutkin saving nuts!

I am maybe giving the wrong impression. I like to save - for holidays (which we have some really lovely ones in the UK but he will not travel abroad, although we are going with mum this year), for days away, for children, xmas, allsorts. But I also think 'sod it', I work 60 hours a week and am about to embark on my career as a teacher; he works his fingers to the bone and is fantastically talented craftsman. We both earn less-than-paltry salaries and have money saved, no mortgage etc, so if we see something we really like and still want it a week later, I see no harm getting it if we can save the money somewhere else. Anyway, back to the point... Told you it would be long!

The very first time I spoke to him he had romantic thoughts about me, but I can remember thinking what a whiney voice he had... not whiney but not very manly! Then I remember the clothes he was wearing which made him look like he was a mix of 'old before my time' and 'couldn't be arsed to make an effort'. He wore glasses that wouldn't have looked out of place in the early 90s, but in 2002 looked a bit weird as they covered almost half his face (because he said he didn't see the point changing them at such a cost!!!!). His hair was a mess as he refused to pay to get it cut very often and used the cheapest of cheap shampoos. He used to complain about the way his mum eats (she has had a massive stroke), and I really don't like eating noises so I told him he was being a bit rich considering every time he eats I expect half of it to come spilling on out! So he changed that and eats really nicely now, apart from the odd time I find him eating his meal with a spoon or from a saucepan (he says he can't be bothered to wash so many things up so saves on washing up!). He has always had the tendency to go on and on like an old lady (most of his life spent with two old ladies - his mum and gran), and also takes after his mum in that everyone else's grief and suffering has the tendency to become HIS (she goes to funerals of people she only knows through friends of friends lol - it's THAT kind of faux grief!).. he isn't that bad, but he will pull these faces and maybe shed a tear if something happens to someone else. Some may say that is nice as he is empathetc; I am empathetic but within my own world as I see no point walking round miserable and taking on other people's woes would surely do that to me! Right, so then he proposed to me but the way he proposed to me made me want to pmsl! He went back to his parents to get something and I thought 'ring, brooch...', but when he came back he had this china doll dressed as a bride which he had kept at home til he met someone, and handed it to me. She was really ugly and I just thought 'what a wet thing to do'. He did buy me a lovely ring but there was an upper spending limit lol. Actually, our first kiss was also awful. He kissed like a fish! Reading this, I am wondering why I said yes. But I have to say some things...

After we met and discussed why I wasn't attracted to him, he changed his glasses and even tried contacts for a while, which he couldn't bear so fair enough - he tried at least. He bought new clothes - not too trendy, just normal, contemporary clothes and a better pair of shoes (not the old man shoes he was wearing), and after 5 years I have just managed to convince him to change his workout shoes! He changed the way he ate (apart from eating with spoons and saucepans!); he changed the deodorant he used (from manky, rank smelling Sainsbury's own, to Sure), because I hated the smell of the one he used; he even bought a nasal hair trimmer!!!!! He bought a set of hair clippers, thinking that kind of haircut would look attractive, but later started going to the hairdressers to have nice, trendy cuts! I even taught him how to kiss nicely (or how I like to be kissed), although he still doesn't have it even 80%! I started to find him attractive and that together with the fact we had always got on, made a recipe for a relationship.

He was the first and only person I had told I had been raped a year before I met him; I told him things I just didn't tell other people and felt 100% comfortable in my own skin when with him. Gosh, I even walked round the house naked in front of him!!!!! I did miss my family when I moved 150 miles away from them to be with him (even though i didn't have the best homelife), but that soon wore off when I found full time work for my year out before uni, met some of his friends and started meeting new people, got another horse to concentrate on. Then he told me about his financial situation about 4 or 5 months after we met and I realised that for the first time in my life, I was happy, content, safe, looked after, would never really need for any material things... little did I know how tight he can be!

We were initially at it like rabbits, but I wasn't working and he was (I had just finished A levels), so he got tired before me so it just dwindled into a 'regular' sexlife. We even bought the kama sutra and became particularly fond of one position!!! But I wouldn't say there had ever been any butterflies, fireworks or spark there. I enjoyed the sex and loved being with him, but I have never found him a huge turn-on or anything. Preparing for the wedding was stressful for one reason or another, and our sex dwindled until at the time of the wedding it was very irregular, and we didn't have sex on our wedding night, but it was partly the way I was feeling about myself and sex at the time. In January 2004 - a few months after the wedding - my granddad died and my world turned upside down, and I started contemplating life more seriously and in a more mature way... whether I was happy and how I got to this position. We were probably having sex about once a month at this point and then in August 2005 I was taken seriously ill with a physical illness which then left me listless when I was better and led into a severe bout of mental illness linked to that and things from childhood. So I came off huge doses of antibiotics and straight onto huge doses of antidepressants (lots of different ones), had social worker, CAT therapist, CPN, crisis team, time on a ward. I'd become withdrawn and suicidal and harming myself, stayed in the house, could get violent - not towards anyone, just in general. So from August 2005 to May this year, I'd always been 'ill' and always been on these tablets. So in September 2005 we had sex when away, but from then until June this year there was nothing and that was even hard for me, the person who didn't want it! It was like I wanted it but not with him. I stopped taking the tablets and stopped being so tired and non-plussed. We had sex again in June and then again a few weeks later, but I am now back in a position of contemplating my life and how, at 24, I want it to proceed. My head is clear and I have my new life ahead, but I have so much to consider.

He never forgets a birthday, anniversary etc. He takes us to lovely places for anniversaries sometimes, and we go away on nice UK holidays, sometimes to France (where we honeymooned), we are NT members and enjoy going to those places, and we occasionally go to the cinema or the pub or an Italian. We get on as friends really well and I like my life - financial security, feeling safe, my horses etc..He bought me flowers when we first met, but since then it has only been for birthdays and stuff, and it is never spontaneous, never any lingerie or little bits of jewellery, never surprises me with a meal out, never just opens a bottle of wine and says sod it to the world. Then the other day I saw his school leavers book and realised that he was one of those people (which I did know deep down), that everyone else laughs at and sniggers about. This doesn't essentially bother me because that is their baggage, not his, but it did highlight some issues in my own head about me not finding him uber attractive and not being turned on by him, not thinking of him as what I would consider a 'real man'.

My thoughts scare me, because I can hardly bear him to kiss me as it leaves me grossed out and he always wants it to lead somewhere else. Having sex with him leaves me feeling sick and thinking how mechanical it all is - wham bam thank you mam and then roll over and off to sleep. He doesn't offer cuddles much anymore as he says he has to switch off from thoughts about sex, but if he does then it always has to be about something else. We bicker about silly things a lot; we can go a week without any arguments and then we'll be bickering for weeks on end, I think because of resentment, maybe on my part. At 24 do I really want to consider a life of no sex because I can't stand it with him. I don't know if I am off sex or off him, because the thought of it with someone else in my fantasies, does kind of turn me on and I am still a sexual person. Can I face no affection or physical intimacies for the rest of my life? The sex has never been earth shattering and I had to teach him a few things, but the thought of oral sex on him or anything like that, makes me want to gag!

He is a lovely man and I can't think of anyone I would rather have children with, rather be friends with, rather share things with. But I find the whole issue of fancying him and not wanting sex with him that much, really worrying. Is it because I was raped in 2001 that I am off sex? (Wouldn't I, in that case, be off all sex, not just with him?). Have I come to resent him because he treats me like a child, giving me £10 a week to spend as I wish, he doesn't surprise me with things...? Have the tough times we have been through with me being ill, switched any of those feelings towards him off, because he had to be a different kind of rock when I was ill?

I'm just so confused. I don't want a life with no physical contact or affection, but I can't see myself wanting it from him. I just can't get past these thoughts about him. But another man has shown interest, and although I haven't done anything as I know it is wrong, I am sorely tempted and find him amazingly sexy - he's intelligent and talks about the things I like to talk about like politics and things my OH finds boring; he keeps fit and in good shape and he's funny and sexy. I find myself increasingly turned on by him, but know I could never do anything with him as he is married with children and I am married. I could not do that to two other adults and 4 children - not after the life I had because of similar. I just keep looking at flats to rent but then talk myself out of it and tell myself I made my bed and have to lie in it for the rest of eternity.

Am so confused and stuck. Just don't know what to do and really needed to let all this out.

OP posts:
TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 13:24

As I have said throughout the post, I DO appreciate all he does for me and know he is a lovely, loyal, kind, trustworthy man who I have confided in over the years, as my best friends. Just things have happened that have made the sex side of things difficult and it has made me doubt my feelings for him. I love him and he knows I love him; I do things for him and give him lots, maybe not material, but I think the overriding feeling here is that material things aren't what matters. My problem is not with not loving him, not wanting to walk down the street hand in hand with him when we are old and grey; it is worrying about why I feel worried about sex before it happens and then sick after it happens.

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 13:26

And as I also said throughout this thread, we had very regular sex before we got married and, though I couldn't leave him through fear of 1) hurting him and 2) hurting myself, I do comtemplate it because I doubt my own feelings.

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 13:29

I meant to say thank you to newlifenewman

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 13:33

Oh and I did compromise. I was due to go to uni in 2002... didn't go because moved to be with him. I did end up going but only because of some long, deep and meaningfuls. He has also asked me not to do the teacher training because he is worried I will get ill again. I put that off for a year as I wanted to show him that I could make myself properly better before embarking on such gruelling training.

I think I should probably mention that my mental illness was diagnosed as borderline personality disorder, and I think some of what I feel/say/do, smacks of that.

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 13:34

And I moved 150 miles to be with him.. away from what family and friends I had. He wouldn't move to be with me and wouldn't move away from this small town because of HIS family and friends. But I don't resent him for it and came here because I wanted to be with him.

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Charlottesweb · 27/07/2007 13:49

The teacher training won't be as gruelling as you/he might think. 3 of my friends are training at the minute & they are fine with it. In fact 2 of them have children as well as studying.

On one hand you say you want for nothing, then you say he doesn't buy you gifts so perhaps he's not that into you [He married you ffs] Then in another post you material things don't matter....

sounds to me like you are an extremely confused girl.

I got married 3 months after my 20th birthday, so same age as you.. my dh is also 33 & I am 27. I try to put myself in your position but I can't, cos I would rather leave dh than make him feel inferior, or hold secret thoughts that people at school snigger at him.. how cruel. I'm positive that my dh wasn't popular at school, that's fine with me.

I didn't marry him for his popularity. I married him because I loved him & he loved me, I wanted to carry his children & I wanted us to raise them together, I wanted him to teach me new things & for me to show him new things... in other words I wanted us to share our future..

What is it you want to do with you dh?

TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 14:02

No, like my post says, I don't care what people thought about him because it's their baggage, not mine. But it did highlight some of my own thoughts, that's all. Material things don't matter to me and I don't think they signal a good relationship, but it's what you see happening in other relationships and tend to measure your own on. He's never, apart from the initial part of the relationship, bought me gifts like flowers, so if it was that I was after, I wouldn't have married him.

What I want from life is someone to share happy and sad times with, someone to confide in and someone to trust, someone who can trust me and confide in me and rely on me, a relationship where we understand each other's complexities even though other people can't possibly begin to. And yes, as I said, I can't imagine having children with anyone else and we have always talked about having them one day. I don't prioritise sex highly in my life, although that is gradually changing where it is as important as companionship, and that is why I would never go off with another man who can only offer me sex. I only worry that I am odd or our relationship is odd, or that I will look back and regret not having had a more sexual relationship. I know deep down, though, that whoever I am with I will have sexual issues with, as I did with Tim, my boyfriend before DH. I just feel freaky for not wanting it with my own husband and feel I need to search for reasons for it. I guess I also place a lot of emphasis on the concrete things we have because I didn't have much as a child and neither did my mum, so I see them as being part of a secure life... husband, house, car, job, clean clothes, food... I even stand back and look at the cupboards after shopping and sigh in a happy way. I panic if we don't have enough food in or if we run out of things like shampoo. I'm just weird and I can't find any reason for any of it.

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 14:03

My mum did teacher training with 3 of us and got through it. It's just that I got so ill in my last year of uni he equates it with me being stressed which isn't right. I know, if I am organised, that I can cope with the course, but he is just worried about me not sleeping, worrying about stuff, again.

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susie100 · 27/07/2007 14:12

Hi TiredFedUpNanny
I have not read all the posts but just a quick post on sex drive. If you are feeling unattractive which you are implying you do, had a serious illness which is de-habilitating it is not suprising you have no sex drive at all.

Also I find (and a lots of my friends do, not scientific I know) that I don't have any sex drive before the event at all. It is only when DP pesters me a bit and I get into it that I feel like it. I think this is more common than tv, mags, friends would have us believe. For a lot of women desire and arousal do not come before sex but only in the immediate lead up to it.
If there are other issues about interests and love then this won't be relevant but it is something to be aware of.

TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 14:23

Hi Susie, no it is just about sex. He thinks it's because I have been raped which probably does have some bearing, but I have also been quite ill and very busy with uni/commuting/working/house/horses.

In every other way we are perfect together. We tell each other everything. We both do stuff round the house but we will unburden the other person all the time, we do nice things together, share moments together, have a laugh together and both know we want each other to be the parents of each other's children. It is just the sex side and me trying to work out why it is like it is, how I can change it, whether it is normal, making the rest of my life sound rosey so the sex thing doesn't look like such a big issue in it, wondering if I would be weird as a 24 year old to say I am happy with the sex the way it is. Most of my bad feeling comes from the fact that I know he likes sex and worry what it is doing to him and this pushes me further into wanting to leave him because I am scared he will leave me first. But I can't make myself do it anymore. I enjoy it when it is happening, but as you have said I hate the lead up and feel sick after, thinking I've put myself out and all that. Occasionally, though, the day after I remember the night before and smile.

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 14:24

I also can't work out why I find the idea of sex so horrible but fantasise about kissing and hugging with a man. I don't always know who the man is and can't always work that out, but I am always more attractive in my fantasies, have more confidence, am more promiscuous.

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EscapeFrom · 27/07/2007 14:31

In a few words

You don't fancy him any more. You don't seem to want to make this work. You don't want to live with him any more would you advise anyone to have children with a man they felt this way about?

Stay well away from the married man, he would use you as cheap release. Sort yourself out.

TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 14:35

I do want to live with him and I do want to work it out; I just can't work out if I fancy him because of the sex issue.

I wasn't going to go anywhere near the married man. My own life was wrecked by my dad being as selfish and just because this bloke wants me, doesn't mean I want him. Sure, I've been tempted, but I'm not stupid.

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 14:38

I think I need to take hoolagirl's advice and get some sex therapy from Relate. We don't need couple's therapy as we are happy as a couple. But I think at least I need some kind of sex therapy to try and work out why I am the way I am and see if we can ever get back to how we used to be. We have made some headway lately: we had sex twice in a month after not having it for 2 years! I swear it's the antidepressants, like the dr said.

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RubyRioja · 27/07/2007 14:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 14:57

Thank you, Ruby. That's what I was trying to do: give a broad overview of my relationship, rather than say I am happy to stay because he keeps me in a life I've become accustomed to. He doesn't. We are a normal couple with a normal life, with the added security of no mortgage and high salaries because we work long hours. We buy each other things occasionally but a lot of the time we buy our own stuff. The car and trailer were a splurge we would never in a million years have imagined doing, and all our money will be gone when we have done this extension, anyway! We want children when my head is clearer and I am fully recovered, and I would also like to foster.

I've had CAT therapy to try and deal with the fact I was raped and things that went badly wrong in my childhood and losing my grandfather who was the only stable male role model I had. But the therapy doesn't take away those events and the memories of these childhood things are still there.

We don't have endless pots of cash; we are comfortable and have a good life in that sense, but if I really put that much emphasis onto money and prioritised it so much, would I really consider leaving him? Afterall, I wouldn't get any money if I left in any case. He didn't tell me about the house or money until 4 or 5 months in, and only then because it looked like we were serious. We had issues at the start about him not wanting to tell his mum we were engaged, but after that everything was great. If I was only interested in sex with other people, I could have it on tap... if I were that sort of person, but I'm not.

We had nada when I was a kid. My dad used to say the most awful things about my mum to me and my brothers; they were separated and he flitted from woman to woman having God knows how many kids with them; he then started berating my appearance and now isn't interested in me at all. He's done and said some awful things to me and youngest full brother, but still has a relationship with all the other siblings. So my mum never had any money, lived in rented, constantly getting letters from debt collectors which I often found and read; I also remember a bailiff coming round to take the washing machine because my mum had to pay for it on credit and had missed some payments. He scared the living shite out of me and my two younger brothers. That's the kind of fear I don't want to ever live with again, and that is why I bestow so much importance on being financially comfortable. When my mum was struggling in 2004 and had letters from debt agencies again, I found out and got that sick, blood-stops-circulating, wobbly legged, feeling again, and my husband ended up selling part of his investment to help her because I was so scared she would lose her house, even though it doesn't affect me now.

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TiredFedUpNanny · 27/07/2007 15:00

Sorry, should say: **lived in rented council flat

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RubyRioja · 27/07/2007 15:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

susie100 · 27/07/2007 15:34

Sex is a bit overated anyway I think. I do also think it is a function of age - I don't think you would mind as much if your sex life was minimal age 34 but you have been with this man since you were 20 and therefore maybe you feel as though you have no got your 'wild' time out of your system?

Feeling bad after sex and worrying about is more worrying. I think sexual councelling sounds brilliant, esp as you have had to get over some horrible ordeals.
It sounds as though you have a lot of positive aspects to your relationship as well - laughing together being the most important in my opinion!!

Read some of other posts on here about some poor Mnetteres and their men and you may feel quite grateful for your man. Sometimes I have to remind myself of that.
Good luck.

Pammi · 27/07/2007 15:43

It sounds like your issues about sex are routed in your past and not directly to do with your husband. Try to get some help with that first then take another look at your marriage. Your husband sounds like a very nice person, kind, supportive, good potential father material and he obviously loves you very much. Those are things to be very much valued and not lightly thrown away. Sex is not the most important thing in a relationship, as sex drives inevitably wane over time. What matters in the long run is that you feel loved, safe and secure and can rely on your husband.

hoolagirl · 27/07/2007 15:55

Right, its Friday night, go and get some wine, put something sexy on and get yourself in the mood mentally and see what happens.

hoolagirl · 27/07/2007 16:06

Flirt and be suggestive as well, you might have fun

TiredFedUpNanny · 28/07/2007 11:37

Just wanted to thank you all for yesterday's advice, some of it frank. I am horrified at how my post came across, because I was just trying to give a clear picture of the relationship and how it unfolded, just like I see so many others do on other posts here; I am not the sort of person that some of you seem to have thought from my OP. I've had too much go on in my life to care that deeply about money; top of MY priority list is making sure I don't slip back into such a depression that I end up back the way I was - four antidepressants and crisis involvement daily. I will always have this diagnosis of personality disorder hanging over my weary head, but as long as I can fight away the worst symptoms, I am determined not to allow it to consume me again. I try everything: I've had bereavement counselling, CAT and meds on the NHS and even been admitted, but I've tried reiki, hypnotherapy currently and am willing to try Relate. I won't allow my past to interfere with the person I could be in my future, and that means also being uber grateful for what I have.

Over the months I have been a lurker, I have made my way through 11 pages of relationships posts, and realise that most of the people posting about partners are sad and angry, having been cheated on and shunned. It makes me realise what a wonderful man I have, but it also added fuel to the fire of doubt in my mind. I know I couldn't wish for a better partner in every respect, but the sex issue was worrying me. I hope my husband and I can work through it so that we can have a 100% rock solid relationship. We will always bicker as couples do - it's the type of people we are. But we can be good friends, partners and parents, and we will. If our only issue is looking forward to sex and remembering it with a smile, I think we are doing pretty well, especially considering what I as an individual have been through, and what we as a couple have been through.

So thanks to everyone. All of this has really helped, and it has helped for me to have to keep coming back to explain myself to different people because it just made it all more and more clear in my head about what I need and want and what he needs and wants.

Thanks. xxx

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