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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please, please can someone advise me.

50 replies

Coconutsandcobbles · 13/06/2019 18:15

I live on my own with my children (preschool age). Husband left before Christmas. He has contact every 2-3 weeks depending on his work pattern. He is really horrible towards me.. critical/ angry/ manipulative/ messes me around every contact (changes plans at last minute weekly), cancels night before, brings children back late. I have done everything to help him to have a good relationship with the children...regular skyping, keeping him updated on the children, photos, letting him decide exactly when he has them.
I left him because of his abusive behaviour towards me.
I can't bare to see him anymore. What are my options? I want to reduce contact until he sticks to what he has agreed. Can I do this? He can pretty much see them as frequently as he wants providing he turns up when he says he will, drops them back home when he says he will and isn't nasty to me. Am I being unreasonable,? What can I do? I feel like a 3rd party should be involved. I'm worried impact everything is starting to have on kids...e.g. They are looking forward to seeing him next day then he cancels suddenly..but also means I can't plan anything for myself. Can't plan anything with friends as always end up having to pull out. 2 weeks ago I was supposed to be going to see a show with friends. He changed plans- picked them up next day...I lost cost of ticket and going to see a show I was looking forward to.
He knows how to hurt me and will say stuff that just leaves me feeling dreadful. He lies all the time. What can I do? This can't go on. Somehow he gives impression he is perfect dad. I hate him. I've tried so, so hard to just focus on the children, not respond to his putdowns and insults but I cannot cope with him. Help!
He seems more interested in hurting me than being a good dad. Please help. What are my 'rights' ?

OP posts:
Fairenuff · 13/06/2019 19:39

He is using the children to continue to abuse you. This has to stop.

Tails5290 · 13/06/2019 19:59

You poor thing. I have no advice but went through a nasty break up with 2 small children and me ex was a complete knob. Didn't turn up, tried to bully me into getting his own way, said really horrible things to me. That was over 6 years ago. We still have fall outs and will never be best friends, but I got to the point where I expected to be let down by him and then was never disappointed if he did. I also stopped caring when he tried to get a reaction out of me and I think he realised there was no point. Like I said not perfect now but a lot better. Time is a good helper. Also maybe you should be more rigid and routine with his days? If he lets you down he has to wait to see them at next arranged time? Hopefully he'll soon realise if he messes you and the kids about he misses out. Also maybe don't tell the kids when he's due to see them as hopefully they won't be disappointed then?

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 13/06/2019 20:01

Maybe communicate by email only, or a designated Knobhead SIMcard on a cheap PAYG phone, so you can choose when you access this stuff. Do you have a relative/friend that would do handover for you?

Lozzerbmc · 13/06/2019 20:03

How awful of him to use his own children to get at you. I’d get some legal advice and see if you can make a formal arrangement. Well done for getting away from him Flowers

HypatiaCade · 13/06/2019 20:28

He gets EOW - so every other weekend. If he cancels, he misses out. You don't reschedule unless it's for a damn good reason, and you swap your weekends, but ONLY if it suits you.

Keep all communication in written form so you have a trail of evidence. Don't discuss anything with him in person.

When you organise a night out, you book a babysitter - ask if they would agree to be available at 50% cost, and if needed then you pay the other 50%. I'm afraid this will cost you money, but you need to get the power away from him. If he cancels, then you don't reschedule for the next day, he misses out.

Coconutsandcobbles · 13/06/2019 20:55

He rarely cancels the entire weekend...usually decides to just have them for the day rather than 2 or picks up in eve rather than morning or brings them back late. How much would it cost to get things formalised?
It would be easier to have them 100% of the time on my own rather than have him involved the way he's being.
Thank you everyone.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/06/2019 20:58

Just stop contact, tell him to take you to court if he wants it.

That way he will get fixed contact. Ensure that you ask for a penal notice attached if he fails to return them.

Difficult to stop him returning them early unless you go elsewhere and turn your phone off...

Tails5290 · 13/06/2019 20:59

I second stopping contact until he takes you to court. That way things will be scheduled and on paper, he can't just break the court order

RandomMess · 13/06/2019 21:05

Tell him then block him so he can't harass you Thanks

Coconutsandcobbles · 13/06/2019 21:09

Won't I look awful in eyes of court for not letting my children see their dad?

How much would going to court cost? I do have some evidence of how much he's messed me around/ how nasty he is when he sees me from texts I've sent to friends at the time. Will that be sufficient?

What's the process if I go to court please?

OP posts:
Underworld345 · 13/06/2019 21:11

I think you need to find a way to make it work. Don’t know how but I disagree that you should stop contact completely. Yes it’s not nice the way he treats you, but it’s the kids that matter the most. Whatever you decide to do, should disrupt the kids the least.

Can you say to him that if he doesn’t pick kids up at x time, he won’t see them that weekend? Leave the house, go out for the day. Stick to yours guns. It should be about the kids. If he really cares about maintaining contact, he should change if you’re strong.

Do you have anyone who can be the middle person in communication so you don’t have to see his abuse?

Tails5290 · 13/06/2019 21:13

Write everything down from now on and keep all text messages. I was sent a letter from my ex telling me he was taking me to court, I got a solicitor, went to court and he ended up with supervised visits in a contact centre. He also had to go on a parenting course, he expected to get exactly what he wanted but cafcass became involved and interviewed us both and the judge agreed on supervised visits. It cost me about £1500 in all

RandomMess · 13/06/2019 21:15

Whilst I agree with underworld it sounds like you will end up on court anyway tbh...

Have you a friend or family member that would deal with arranging contact? You would have to stop being flexible day Friday 6pm collection until Sunday 4pm but if he doesn't turn up then cancel it.

Coconutsandcobbles · 13/06/2019 21:22

Unfortunately no. I don't have anyone local who can facilitate contact. What do I do if he is supposed to pick them up at say 9am...messages at 8 to say he's picking them up at 2pm instead?! I have tried saying...sorry..no...I'm out then...then he gets very nasty. He's very manipulative and has turned some other people against me. He comes across as such a nice guy. I think some people can't believe it can be true (but that means they do think I'm the kind of person who would make it all up. :-(.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/06/2019 21:31

You say "no I have plans it's cancelled unless you collect by 9am" then ignore the messages. Hi out with the DC etc etc.

This is why I feel you may as well just do "Due to your ongoing failure to stick to agreed contact and abusive messages I can no longer facilitate contact without a legal written agreement, i will consider shuttle mediation but if you prefer you can take it straight to court"

You can self rep get hold of a Mackenzie friend?

If he's been abusive then mediation is usually signed off as not appropriate.

Coconutsandcobbles · 13/06/2019 21:57

What's a Macenzie friend?

I'm scared in case the judge believes his lies. He's very convincing/ comes across as a loving daddy- devastated that he can't be without his children and that he's the victim. My GP and health visitor are both aware what's been going on. They gave me support in weeks/ months before I got him to leave.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/06/2019 22:05

Speak to woman's aid it sounds like you need professional support Thanks

category12 · 13/06/2019 22:06

I think RandomMess is right.

If he misses his contact time, you need to go ahead and go out with the kids, carry on your day.

If he sends abusive messages, harasses you or bullies you, you need to get the authorities involved. You could look at getting a non-molestation order against him. www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/getting-an-injunction/

category12 · 13/06/2019 22:10

Keep a record of all contact (phonecalls/face-to-face) and when he changes plans etc, save texts and emails. It'll support your side of things should it come to court.

Whosorrynow · 13/06/2019 22:11

Keep a detailed log of everything he does, that way if you have to go to court you have evidence to build a good case against him
Be proactive take control but don't tip him off in anyway

disneyspendingmoney · 13/06/2019 23:03

A Mackenzie friend us someone who can accompany you into the court room if you don't have a barrister. You can talk to them quietly for support but they CANNOT address the judge.

You need some solid legal advice. Do not initiate court, with a lawyer and or barrister it becomes hellishly expensive. About £5000 per visit and it will take a minimum of three visits.. One to seek an order and then have it served, second for fact finding and hopefully the third for Final Orders. Any dispute and it can go on and on. So let him act. Oh! and the court will also expect an attempt at mediation before all if this. If anything ask him to attend a mediation session with a lawyer who specialises in mediation.

The rule of thumb is that the court will attempt to maintain the status quo, so if you've established a pattern of contact that you feel is detrimental to yourself it will be difficult to show otherwise

Work out what is good for you, mine has a few hours at the weekend, that's it. Set times, set day.. Set up a burner phone for text SMS only, an email account just for communication purposes. Do not use, whatsapp, duo facetime Allo, telegraph, wire, Facebook messenger or Instagram. just plain old sms. If there is any abuse the police can act quicker as it breaks telephony laws that are well established.

Use a library for dropoff and collection near the desk, if there is any threats then there are sever penalty's for abusive behaviour in a council owned library.

when you are ready and you've had a break from the difficult behaviour, start contact again and STICK to the schedule you ( you not him) have decided on, like;

10 till 4 on a Saturday, with a text 5 mins beforehand confirming, cancellation of contact occurs if 30 mins late with no replacement date, once missed it's missed. There is little you can do about late return, but the court will see that as irresponsible behaviour and an inability to comply with a simple requests AKA being difficult.

The aim of a family court hearing is to establish reasonable and sensible contact routine for the children with the minimum of disruption (and fucking about) where both parents can behave in an agreeable and amicable way.

The hardest thing to get is that little of this can really be enforced, unless a pattern of intimidation and abuse can be shown by the police. Otherwise your stuck with letters at £1000 a pop from your lawyer that get ignored, then your back in court again where the judge says do as your told and they don't.

Quick summary, don't initiate court let him do it. Establish what is a good routine for the DC's and you you are the primary carer after all. Engage a mediator.

mumto2babyboys · 13/06/2019 23:06

You need to start using a contact centre for the handover. You take the children there. You wait in a separate room. He comes and gets them and then when he is done he can bring them back to your home but don't speak to him

Write any messages in a communication book that goes back and forth with the children

If he doesn't turn up to the contact centre he will still have to pay the centre and explain why he hasn't to them

mumto2babyboys · 13/06/2019 23:08

Also go into your local citizens advice they will know the best family law solicitors and if you will get legal aid or not

disneyspendingmoney · 13/06/2019 23:14

The best and cheapest contact centers I've found are the YMCA ones it's about £50 to set up (shared cost) and the about £25 per hour each. Do that's about £100 for a couple of hours, 4 times a month it can become quite a cost burden. My DC's absolutely hated it, it's not that nice an experience.

mumto2babyboys · 13/06/2019 23:37

You can use a contact centre for just the handover part though which is cheaper. Then he would have to turn up on time and if he didn't he'd get billed for the cost of the handover session. Also it would be good evidence as the contact centre keep records so she'd have a 3rd party stating he hasn't turned up on these times and dates

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