How to deepen my bond with 5 year old daughter?

[TheFawn]

Would like to hear from people who engage in alternative therapies for this perhaps?

I had PND after birth of my firstborn. I didn't breastfeed her as I was scared I would poison her with my breastmilk. I then felt completely touched out by her and just wanted to run away. The PND improved greatly after around 1 year, but I've been left with what feels like, a gaping hole between me and her.

I was frightened and very anxious during my pregnancy with her and for the first 3 months afterwards.

She has always settled for other people just as well as she settles for me. The few times when she wanted only me, DH would step in and hold her instead saying she needed to learn to want him too. My inlaws were also very intrusive. Ever since, I have felt a lot of the time, that she doesn't see me as the special person in her life. I have so many regrets about our first few weeks together.

I have since had another daughter after receiving lots of therapy- I have breastfed her and have formed an undeniable bond with her.

I don't understand why I still feel this distance from DD1 5 years down the line?

I try to play with her and reach out to her, but she won't sit still to cuddle and when we play, she's very mathematically minded, whilst I am creative. We struggle to connect through play. We have conversations but I find her very repetitive and the conversations focused on minor details which I find monotonous and I struggle to maintain attention. I feel terrible about it but it is true.

I once dreamt that she and I were put into a room together where sounds of the womb were played and the room was lit dimly by soft pink colours. We cuddled together and fell asleep. When we woke, I found that we had reconnected again and she felt like mine.

I can't stop thinking about it and hope one day, that I can connect with her better. I care for her deeply and love her greatly; I worry about her more than my other child and I probably give in to her much more too out of guilt. Because, I know deep down that there is something missing.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can restore our bond and connection?

The few times when she wanted only me, DH would step in and hold her instead saying she needed to learn to want him too. My inlaws were also very intrusive.

The first thought I had when I began to read your post was how similar it seemed to how I felt ... and what an enormous difference living separately to my ex has made. Then I read the above and its heartbreakingly obvious. Your husband and inlaws are creating the distance and intentionally. You may find that if you get some distance, like me, you'll find that your were bonded all along - just constantly afraid to offend the husband and inlaws by actually being "mummy". It wasn't lack of bond which was the problem. It was abuse and in-house parental alienation.

and she felt like mine

This also stands out.
I really think that parental alienation has contributed to this situation. Does your husband and do your in laws still behave obsessively towards your firstborn?

Sounds like your DH and in laws played a big part in this and not in a nice way

How much time do you spend with just you and her?

Could you do a duvet day one day where you just snuggle and eat snacks and watch movies and just try and connect? Would she do that?

My inlaws have most definitely backed off after realising I think that their behaviour was very obsessive. They have since had other grand-children and appear much more healthy and balanced around their grandchildren. My DD often talks of them as if they are equal to us, her own parents at times though which I find hurtful. DD2 clearly loves them but reaches out for mummy and daddy rather than them.

DH is clearly very close to DD1 and is able to play with her and relate to her a lot better than I can. I blame him in many ways for the lack of bond I feel with her.

Yes she would have a duvet day with me, but wouldn't be so good at snuggling. I find she will sit in her own little space quite a lot when we watch something together. I ask her to sit nearer to me but she tells me shes comfortable. She tends to sit on DHs knee a lot though out of choice. On the rare occasion she will sit on my knee, she will scratch at my arm or jump up and down on my knee and I become irritated. She has never snuggled in to rest on me, not even when she is poorly. Infact, on the occasions she has been ill, she often asks to be left alone. I don't know if I have caused this.

Oh OP I feel for you I do. When DS1 was born I remember saying repeatedly that I didn't recognise him and he didn't feel like mine. I couldn't breastfeed easily as he had a milk allergy that I didn't know about so he screamed a lot too. He's 5 now also and there's definitely more distance between us than my breastfed DS2. Things that have improved the situation for me:

• NOT forcing him to cuddle and snuggle. I think that your DD may be able to sense your anxiety on this and feels under pressure
• If she is ill or in need of comfort, kindly ask your DH to make himself scarce and then just sit with her and be present with no pressure for physical contact.
• Try super hard to take an interest in what she likes, even if it's super boring for you. Try to leave space for her to speak and listen a lot.

I've tried all of above and whilst we're still not as close as me and DS2 it has definitely improved. Good luck op and don't beat yourself up over it- she'll pick up on your guilt and anxiety. Xxx

There are some good resources on repairing broken attachment here:

thebeyondsleeptrainingproject.com/artricles-to-read-when/youve-left-bub-to-cry

Although the emphasis is on repairing following CIO you might still find it useful. Also check out book called How to Speak So Children will Listen which has great tips on building better relationships with children.

I wish you and your daughter the very best - congratulations on what you have achieved so far in your recovery esp with your second.

You mention having therapy and how it helped you with your second pregnancy - I just wondered whether that would be an option for you to process some of your feelings around DD1 and your in-laws/DH. It sounds like they had a very negative impact on you at a very difficult time and it would maybe be good to work through that and also try to separate it from the present day (as you may be looking for signs there is distance with DD and therefore finding them - eg perhaps she fidgets/scratches when she is on DH lap too but he just isn’t aware of it). How often do you see the in-laws?

Could you have a bit of space from them eg a holiday just the four of you? Could they visit a little bit less often so you can bond as a little family?

Can you also try to force yourself through certain reactions on your side eg getting annoyed with the scratching or finding a way to enjoy mathematical activity (this night sound silly but eg Lego can be quite mathematical and methodical but also creative). This might go against what PP who know more about this kind of situation have said about physical contact but I was wondering if you could do activities that lend itself to a degree of contact - eg swimming, dancing, skating - so it’s less about asking for cuddles and more part of something less pressured?

It’s obvious you care very deeply for your daughter and I really believe your dream where you feel connected will come true, you just need to create the right circumstances internally and externally.

You seem like such a lovely person - I’m sure it will all work out

Mental health issues can leave us with misplaced guilt. Especially difficulties in a child’s first year. Yet the bond is there, you clearly care and should be proud of having a confident and secure child.
It doesn’t matter if her way of playing bores you, play it anyway again and again and again. It does not matter if her conversation irritates you, talk and listen anyway again and again and again. You don’t have to nitpick at differences such as ‘mathematically’ versus ‘creatively’ you just have to show joy in all that she is. Read with her frequently. Keep her company at bath time. Be silly - eat cornettos on frosty mornings, jump over pavement cracks, tickle her when she least expects it.
Some people are more reserved and snuggle less, doesn’t matter if they were breast fed or not...you just learn to really appreciate when they do want affection.
Don’t compete with your DH for her affection, just give yours completely unconditionally.

I identify with the way you feel.

I’ve got twins. One was with me from birth but I wasn’t allowed to even hold the other one for 8 days - due to him being in neonatal. I couldn’t even see his eyes because he had a mask on.

I love them both to bits but the second twin never felt like “mine” for the first year. He is also naturally very self sufficient - I wonder if that is just his personality or if it has been created somehow by me.

I have come to accept that the other physical feeling of a bond (I have other DC and I feel it with them), the way that your child smells and ‘feels’ like yours, may not come. But over time, I have got to know him and I love him and who he is so much that it doesn’t matter that the instinctive feeling is different. Maybe that is how adoptive parents fall in love? That may not make sense I suppose.

I also struggle with cuddles as he squirms on my lap and will never snuggle in properly.

One thing that did happen though, is that when this twin broke his arm and I took him to hospital, I feel that overwhelming fear and love and protectiveness (that “I would die for you” sort of feeling!) so strongly that it made me realise my love for him is as strong as the others, I just feel it in a different way somehow.

I completely understand @smiggle. The fear and protection is always there despite that feeling of a close bond. I recently read a quote that love is a choice and an action more than it is a feeling and I cling on to this. Wishing you all the best with your twins xx

I understand where you are coming from OP.

The best remedy is spending time together, taking the opportunity for one on one time. Work on yourself to curb those moments of irritation. It's hard but pays off.

I feel you op! Had similar with my eldest.
Your dream sounds lovely. It can totally come true. Why not recreate it?
Look up love bombing by Oliver James.

Sorry if I've missed you saying this, but I just wondered if you've spoken to your DH about how you feel?

It's not the same, but my eldest, since her little sister came along, took a step back, I think partly triggered by me and DH, a new baby generally taking up time, despite efforts to keep our close bond, she became less snuggly. She's now naturally more self sufficient and we have to make a concerted effort to get her to stop and snuggle. She's a fidgeter and always has been so it isn't the same. What we've done to combat it and deepen our relationship with her over the last few years is do special things with her. So I used to work shifts and when I was out in the evening DH would bring her downstairs after youngest was asleep and they would order takeaway food and watch a film. A while ago he asked if I would stay out a night so they could do it again as I don't work shifts now. I don't mind as it's good for them as a pair.

DH sometimes works away. When he does, eldest always has at least one night sleeping in bed with me (again she comes in after youngest is asleep). It brings us physically and emotionally closer. In part because she knows she's getting something special that her sister doesn't get. I know that sounds a bit unfair, but she also knows her sister who is very tactile has a different relationship with us. It works for us to keep us close. Could you instigate anything similar? Or even just have an occasional night the two of you sharing a bed, a special girls night, that she knows is just about her?

Or make new habits like waking her up ten minutes early so she can sit in your bed in the morning, chatting or watching something on your phone etc but bringing some physical closeness which in turn may bring emotional closeness? Maybe find some rubbish she likes on YouTube etc (that you're bound to hate!) And sit and watch it with her, not necessarily cuddling, but paying attention. Eldest and I enjoy these videos fixing up squishies. Now if there's a new one posted she gets all excited and waits until I'm able to sit down and watch it with her. It's not thrilling but is kind of addictive in a crap TV kind of way and I know she LOVES that it's our thing.

Our psychotherapists for under 5s recommend spending half an hour as often as you can just being with them as they play and following their lead, maybe speaking what they/their toy is doing, or counting what your dd is building/placing. Always watch listen follow and reflect, no need to lead, but let them boss you. Your dream sounds very precious, let it bond you and your dd, good luck.

I once dreamt that she and I were put into a room together where sounds of the womb were played and the room was lit dimly by soft pink colours. We cuddled together and fell asleep. When we woke, I found that we had reconnected again and she felt like mine

Not a lot on MN that brings me to tears but this. Might be to do with just having had DD2 and being able to hold her for all of one hour before she was whizzed to neo natal for a few days.

Good luck OP, you sound lovely. Xx

Not sure I have suggestions OP and Im sure other posters have way better advice. Just wanted to say what stands out to me is what a wonderful mother you must be to both. So many women would jst try and push these feelings away and not want to deal with them. They might even blame the kid. What comes across to me is the deep love you have for this child and your desire to communicate that to her. You will find a way. In the meantime, try not to be so hard on yourself.

Op I know almost exactly how you feel.
My dd was premature was born blue and not breathing.she ended up in neonatal for 8 days. Plus I a young mum who lived with my parents (and always felt like a co parent with them.)
I now have a dh and another dc but my relationship with dd still takes some work.
I would die for her but I still feel something is slightly different compared to my son. I had the instant rush of love with him and held him straight away.
I do little girly days with dd to make sure we are working on our bond. We go shopping, get our nails done, cinema. Or even just a film in bed together (like your dd though she doesn't like to snuggle with me but does her gran but I never push her to snuggle)
I always do her homework with her- it's one of our routines nothing gets in the way of and she likes that.
I am slowly accepting our relationship is different but I have also promised myself to always prioritise quality time with her and make sure I am always working has to keep and nurture the bond we have.

Can you take for a day out somewhere just the two of you? Is there somewhere nearby she may enjoy like the zoo or beach etc.

By acknowledging that you want to make a change you are over the first hurdle. Remind yourself that you are committed to this, and when she wants your attention (mum, where's the sellotape, mum can you undo this knot, what's 137 X 1000?) Stop and give it to her. It is really hard but be consistent on her timetable, not just yours.
Also, if you can manage child led play, do so. If you can't manage 30 minutes, do 10. But have some relaxed time with her every day (I say this, there is one day a week where I only feed and chauffeur one of mine, but in an ideal world, every day!).

I would start by spending 2 mins each night at bed time telling her how much you live her. It may sound silly but it really helps my dd and I connect. We each take a turn to come up with how much we love each other
E.g. I love you more than all the shells on all the beaches
I love you more than all the hairs on all the bears
I love you more than all the stars in the sky

Some amazing ideas here. Thanks so much. I have ordered the love bombing book and I think recreating the dream is a great idea. I could use a himalayan salt lamp for the pink glow in the room and find some womb sounds on my phone and cuddle in for the night together.

I am trying to give her my undivided attention for atleast 10 minutes each day but I'm finding it difficult to do with her clingy younger sister around, plus evenings are too rushed and chaotic. DH seems to zone out when he gets home from work so unlikely to take the younger child so that I can focus on the eldest.

I will also plan in a couple of days just me and her. Where she will be my only focus for in the near future. I wish jobs and to-do lists didn't stand in the way so much.

I struggle with this. I had bad pnd with my dd having been a single mum since my pregnancy, went back to work after 6 months mat leave due to financial necessity and I know I didn’t bond with dd really until I changed my work hours when she was about 3. We now have a better relationship but she seems as bonded to my mum (who was a co carer of her as a baby) as much as to me and it still upsets me that she often doesn’t want me, etc. She is 4.5 now. I make a special effort to do stuff with her (playground, swimming, baking, crafts) as well as talking in bed at the end of the day when I put her to bed. I tell her I love her all the time and am very affectionate with her and she has started being more like this. I tell myself it’s great that she’s an independent soul and is always up for new things, very good socially and has a great sense of humour, all things that I believe came from me not being her main carer and being PFB throughout her baby years!
My heart goes out to you OP and just know these feelings are normal xxx