Relationship between husband and brother

[Sophie4113]

I have been with my OH for ten years and we have two DSs - age 4 and 1.

OH has never liked my brother because they hold opposing views on a lot of sensitive subjects - for example, OH votes Tory and my brother campaigns for Corbyn and advocates communism, OH eats a lot of meat and my brother is vegan. I'm somewhere in the middle so get on with both of them. OH says that if he wasn't my brother, he would keep him away from our kids completely because he is a "dangerous lunatic".

I assume that my brother realises that he and OH will never be best friends but he is very sensitive and considerate and always makes an effort with him. OH makes an effort when he sees my brother and is pleasant and sociable but says nasty stuff about him to me behind his back.

My brother is unlikely to ever have his own kids and lives abroad so doesn't see my DCs very often. I think my mum tries to compensate for this by talking about my brother to the DCs a lot - chit-chat about what he's up to and talk about how successful he is - it's very frequent. OH and I both find the constant references weird but it doesn't overly bother me as I think she is just trying to make sure that the DCs don't forget about him and that he doesn't get excluded. OH says that my brother is being put up on a pedestal as if he is some sort of god and that the kids will have a warped view of him. He is worried that they will automatically adopt my brother's view on important issues when they are older because of the way he is being presented as perfect and a close member of the family (which he is by blood but he only sees them a few times a year). OH says that my brother's views are often extreme and that he is uncomfortable with them. I said that we should teach the kids to make up their own minds but OH says that children are very easily influenced and need to be protected.

OH feels unsupported by me and asks how I'd feel if he had a sibling whom I didn't like who was being presented to the DCs in this way. (He is an only child and I get on well with his parents). He wanted to have a word with my parents about it (which I was against because it would cause a lot of upset) but now he thinks that doing so would just cause them to carry on behind our backs. He doesn't really have a solution but says we can't go on like this. It is putting a huge strain on our relationship.

I am really trying to keep everyone happy but I am struggling to see OH's point of view and desperate to avoid family arguments. I think OH has blown it out of proportion but this is how he feels and I can't just ignore him. (For context, we have had many difficult issues in the past relating to OH's relationship with my parents and brother and several periods when OH and my mum were barely speaking to each other, which was highly stressful and upsetting for me).

Any advice or opinions appreciated x

Abusive people read support for you as opposition to them. What your OH is doing makes me uncomfortable, as it is very similar to an abusive tactic - to separate you from family and friends, and anyone else who would support you.
He is demanding you take his side against your family, not just your brother but your Mum as well, and that doesn't sit well with me.

So one quick question. How is he with your female friends? Have you had to drop any? Can they visit you at your home?

Thanks for your reply. I have been in abusive relationships before and this really doesn't feel abusive.

He is fine with female friends and I go out with them or they visit me quite regularly (most weeks). I don't really have male friends but I used to work with all men until recently and he never had an issue with it. X

Maybe he is worried in your eyes and his dc's, he cannot measure up to your db?

I think there is some truth in that.

OH says that now we're married I should put him first and my parents and brother but I don't think it's that simple. I dude with who I agree with!

OH does put me first though and will side with me against his parents so that we present a united front, even if OH disagrees with me. It's nice but I see that as his choice and I'd understand if he sided with his parents sometimes. X

I think your oh needs some counselling to work out why he feels so threatened. Especially as your dc are so young and you and he are the main influences in their lives.

Might be worth you two going together as a way of mediation.

His complaints are a little bizarre.

I’d be on the side of your OH. I wouldn’t associate with a communist.

Conks - really?! You wouldn’t “associate” with someone holding Communist ideals? Sheesh. Back to “reds under the bed” then?

OP - so we can get some context here, which of your DB’s values / views does your DH find dangerous? Would a reasonable person agree that they’re extreme or just someone the Express / Sun would target as a reader?

Putting that to one side, you’ve said yourself that your DM’s promotion of your DB is unusual, and possibly a bit OTT. Given that, it’s not completely unreasonable for your DH to suggest she calms it down. My kids don’t see my brother that much but I don’t feel any need to constantly mention him, and nor do my DPs.

I understand where your OH is coming from. I hate Corbyn, and wouldn't want my young children around someone who constantly sang his praises. I've been uncomfortable with my 6 year old coming home from school and telling me that "no one outside of America likes Trump". Now, I'm not a particular fan of the man, but I was very concerned that her teacher had told her such a thing when another child mentioned him. She's asked similar questions about Brexit. I'm always careful to explain that we all hold different views. Sometimes something or someone seems very popular or unpopular, but there will always be lots of people who feel differently, and we should remember that. That it's important to question instead of blindly accepting things as fact just because it's popular opinion. I also stress how we have to be respectful of the people who hold different opinions. So, with this in mind, I would not want my children around a very political uncle, and nor would I want him put on a pedestal by grandparents, as it is very one-sided.

I don't think your DH sounds abusive. He sounds like he is struggling and needs your support. His family is small, so you and the kids come first. Yours is bigger so it's not so clear cut for you, but it is for him. Plus, you've said he doesn't really get on with your family? I am not fond of my MiL, and when she sings the praises of my BiL's GF it rubs me up the wrong way, because it draws a clear comparison between what she thinks of me, and this other woman. I imagine your DH feels the same. If you can, I'd support him on this, as I've found that it is only my DH's support that has meant I can continue to keep the peace with the ILs sometimes.

I really don't believe that family should take a backseat just because you're married. If my OH was being a total arse, I wouldn't support that.

It's fine if your DH doesnt agree politically with your DB. Just ask him not to discuss politics with the kids. Simple as.

But constantly badmouthing your DB to you is wrong. He is family and will always be your brother. He's not going to change his world view but that's not the only thing that makes up his personality.

My ex used to surreptitiously bad mouth my family until it got to the point where he would dictate when I got to see them! I got to the point where I dreaded bringing up going to visit because he'd always have something negative to say. Didnt feel abusive at the time... now, looking back, it was fucking wrong.

It is controlling and abusive, OP.

Your kids are 4 &1..... they really are not thinking about Politics or eating meat/vegan! So I very much doubt they are being influenced at this age!

I am sure your mum and dad are just mentioning Uncle as the kids are so young if they only see him a couple of times a year they may forget who he is. I'm sure she is not doing it to intentionally piss your oh off! My mil used to always mention sil to our young children as we didn't see sil often and she didn't want them to not know who she was, at times I did used to think Jesus shut up about her she's not a flipping saint lol but I understand it wasn't to irritate me lol.

Your OH sounds OTT in his reactions here and a bit dramatic/insecure. Unless of course something you aren't saying like your brother is chaining himself to buildings and starving himself for his causes or murdering people or on drugs then how is he dangerous?! If you only see him few times a year all your oh has to do is make polite small talk while inwardly rolling his eyes, there is no need for them to strike up a debate or discuss their differing views!

My OH doesn't really have anything to do with my brother, he's 8 years younger than me, still lives at home with my parents, no kids, nothing in common but like yours he only has to see him once or twice a year for a couple of hours so it's no big deal.

OH says that if he wasn't my brother, he would keep him away from our kids completely because he is a "dangerous lunatic" and

He is worried that they will automatically adopt my brother's view on important issues when they are older

Tells me that the teenage rebellion years in your household are going to be epic, please start selling ringside seats now OP.

But seriously, your mum chats about your DB to the kids telling them about Uncle Red Comrade so they won't forget him, your DB is polite to your DH and makes a effort and yet your DH is sneering them behind their backs and wanted to take your parents to one side for a word on the uncle chat. It all sounds exhausting and overblown to be honest, what is going to happen when one of your children doesn't conform to what your husband thinks they should be? Honestly he needs to unclench a bit.

I wonder if its worth trying to teach him a different way to manage differences in belief.

He has the steryotypical method which is to stamp on it. Another method is to teach your kids critical thinking and constructive criticism. but you have to be able to apply that to you own beliefs first.

Your OH sounds horrid. He's nice to your brother's face but says nasty stuff about him to you behind his back? Why have you let him do that BTW? If my OH was nasty about any of my siblings, unless it was completely justified which it would never be, he would know very quickly not to do it again.

This sounds to me like it's about his axe to grind against your brother, not a concern for your children.

He doesn't like him, he's idolised by your parents, you won't side against him and now his children are also starting to think he's wonderful. Bet your OH doesn't like that one bit.

He's now taking it all out of proportion until it causes a rift in your relationship, because you wouldn't 'take his side'.

Sounds like a toddler having a temper tantrum. He doesn't even know what he wants you to do to make it better - maybe you are supposed to just wait until he stops wailing and then distract him with a biscuit?

Is your brother a right wing extremist? If not, your OH is being an arse with the 'dangerous lunatic' stuff.

When he starts simply say "You're talking about my brother. He's family and I love him. He's not dangerous, he's not a lunatic, and he's our children's uncle, like it or not. So please stop bad mouthing him to me and to them."

I hardly think that supporting a long established, mainstream political party that advocates some limited sharing resources and following a diet shared with about 600,000 people in the UK makes someone a "dangerous lunatic".

I think you could ask your brother not to talk about politics around the kids, but other than that your husband needs to learn how to better get on with people who shave different views.

What kind of ideas is it that your husband objects to? Communism is far more extreme than democratic socialism, which is where Labour policy sits. I'm wondering if your husband knows what he is talking about, or just dismisses everything left of his views as extremist.

Why is he so threatened by people with different believes to him? It’s not like your brother has extreme (illegal) views. Surely it’s much better for children to be raised surrounded by opposing views, getting along happily.

As a mother I would also be incredibly worried about him saying the children might take on your brothers views. Because what he is really saying is, he wants them to think exactly like him.

What political views to have, whether to eat meat or be vegan, whether to be in same sex relationship, practice religion etc are to my mind not for the parents to dictate. And I certainly wouldn’t feel the need to shield them from people who live their lives different to me. It makes your OH come across like a bit of an ignorant arse.

My advice would be to challenge your OP as to why he wants the children to have the same believes as him. Why would that be better for them? Why does he care if they become vegan or vote labour? How would that mess up their lives? Why does he need to clone mini-me’s?

Maybe when he starts to see that his fears are purely selfish he might tone it down a bit. This is ALL about him and fuck all about the future happiness / welfare of your children.

Challenge your OH, not OP. Sorry

OH feels unsupported by me and asks how I'd feel if he had a sibling whom I didn't like who was being presented to the DCs in this way.

How do you answer that question OP? I'm guessing it would be differently from how he treats your brother.

This sounds really tough for you . I have something similar in my family.

I'm sorry, you lost me at 'my oh votes tory'.

I've been uncomfortable with my 6 year old coming home from school and telling me that "no one outside of America likes Trump". Now, I'm not a particular fan of the man, but I was very concerned that her teacher had told her such a thing when another child mentioned him.

But noone does, it the truth.

I agree with a lot of what others have said about your husband sounding like he doesn't want the kids to hear about alternative viewpoints.

BUT, it must be so annoying to hear about his brother in law being made out to be so great and so often. You said yourself it is weird and very frequent. I think you could diplomatically ask your mum to stop going on about him. When he comes to visit then the kids can chat to him and hopefully your husband will chill out a bit about it if this uncle isn't being forced down his throat.

I sympathise with him - imagine if your oh had a sister who you thought was a pain in the arse and your MIL never stopped going on about her.

Take the politics out of it and just have a bit of sympathy for the man!

Thank you for all your replies, much appreciated.

@Paterpower I wouldn’t call DB’s views particularly extreme. He feels strongly about them but I don’t think he tries to push them on anyone and he certainly doesn’t do anything violent or illegal to promote them. I have asked him previously not to talk about politics in front of OH and he gladly stopped and was a bit upset to think that he had caused any offence.

@NoBaggyPants OH is quite well-informed about politics. DB thinks communism would be a good idea. OH says communism doesn’t work in practice and causes extreme suffering. I’m not very well-informed politically (or particularly interested) so I try to stay out of it although I can see both points of view to some extent.

@LuckyBitches What is happening in your family? I wouldn’t like it if he had a sibling being presented in this way but I don’t think I’d come to the conclusion that it would lead the kids to hero-worship them. I think I’d find it more of an annoyance.

I agree with everyone who said that OH needs to realise we are not cloning mini hims and that they may grow up with different opinions to him. Maybe I need to discuss with him more why he thinks DB’s views are dangerous. I would quite like the DCs to grow up with similar worldviews to me but I accept that they are their own people and might not. I would rather they know how to think for themselves then just agree with me.

Perhaps I could use humour to bring it up with my parents, e.g. when they next start talking about him make light-hearted comments about singing DB’s praises and see whether they get the message.