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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Grandparent grief!

16 replies

Twofigures · 13/05/2019 10:24

Ok, so I am doing some soul searching and could do with some impartial advice! Sorry in advance for the novel!!

I have an older sis and younger brother and am happily married with 2 teens; neither of them have children and my brother, who I used to be close to, has a partner who has openly said she doesn't like being around children. As a result my brother and her won't come to our house and have never invited us to theirs. My relationship with my sis has never been close - she is now a single 50something in a high powered job where everyone does what she tells them. She is incredibly dominant in our family and privately I think my parents, who are now 80, are intimidated by her. She controls everything and gets frustrated with me as I do push back and won't be bossed around by her after 50 years!

When my children were quite small she constantly asked them (directly through cards etc, not through me) to go and stay with her on their own (she is about 200 miles away). They never wanted to go (she is very precious about her belongings, wants to talk to them about her achievements not what they are interested in etc) so I naturally protected them - and her, I guess - from having to say that and just made excuses. That has now led to accusations from my mum that I kept the children from them all. I have always been close to my dad and we shared many sporting interests in common, but my mum has never been a very affectionate person and can be quite hard. We got much closer when my children were born and holidayed together, children stayed with grandparents on their own (250 miles away) etc but as time went on the main focus of my parents relationship with them was to talk about my brother and sister - how rich and successful they were (money and status v important to my parents). Even my children noted that all their grandparents wanted to force on them was their aunt and uncle and that their grandparents were different when my siblings were around.

This came to a head recently when my parents dropped into a conversation that there was a trust fund for each of my children, trustees of which were my parents, brother and sister. This idea had been suggested about 8 years ago and I said I thought, as their legal guardian who knows them best, that I should be too. It was never mentioned again until a couple of weeks ago as my eldest son is approaching 18. My dad said that they'd been discussing with my bro and sis how best to release the money/what to do with it. I'm afraid I lost my rag as I didn't even know this existed. I told my mum I couldn't understand why I wasn't also involved particularly as I know my siblings don't really like me and exclude me from everything they do. The conversation went badly and she said I'd been possessive of my children, kept them from them (they see them several times per year and more when they were younger - it is a 500 mile round trip and we both work full time) and always put them first at others expense. She showed absolutely no emotion although I got upset. Last night my dad rang my 17-year old directly on his mobile (never happened before EVER) telling him there was a trust fund and asking for his NI number as they were changing provider. Obvs he didn't know it and when suggesting he'd go and ask me, was told they were trying to keep this away from his mum. We had to explain the situation to our son who was livid and doesn't now want the money. That would cause an irreversible family rift as they would hold me responsible and that money would give him a foot up in life/help with uni etc. I wouldn't want him to make a decision he regretted. I can't discuss with my parents - my dad doesn't do anything emotional so opts out and my mum is clearly majorly p***d off with me. I had yet another sleepless night worrying about this and what to do/how to move forward. Anyone got any useful advice to steer my way out?

OP posts:
pallasathena · 13/05/2019 10:55

Do nothing. Silence. And wait for them to apologise. If they don't, then keep silent and enjoy the peace.
Its only money at the end of the day and the price you're having to pay for the prospect of accessing it is, in my opinion, too high.

Twofigures · 13/05/2019 11:18

Thanks @pallasathena. My parents have never apologised for anything so can't see that starting now! If it was my money, it would be easy and I completely agree with you. I do believe my parents intentions were good (to help their grandchildren) and somewhere it's just gone wrong, but should I just suck it up to make sure my children don't miss out?

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/05/2019 11:29

"I do believe my parents intentions were good (to help their grandchildren) and somewhere it's just gone wrong, but should I just suck it up to make sure my children don't miss out?"

No, do not suck it up. The money will just be used by your parents to make your son and in turn you feel more obligated to them. I hope your son did not give out his NI number.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. Your parents also created this dynamic between the three of you as siblings; your mother being the driving force and your dad being the weak willed enabler and bystander. You may well be your family of origins scapegoat.

BogglesGoggles · 13/05/2019 11:37

So it’s not your money in any way yet you think you should have trusteeship? YABU. It’s their money which they’ve put on trust. They have ever right to appoint whoever they want as trustees. If they had mismanaged the trust and the money was your child’s by right rather than by their generosity that would be one thing but that’s really not the case. YABVU here. Surely if this was any other gift you wouldn’t be trying to dictate the terms?

BogglesGoggles · 13/05/2019 11:41

Do bear in mind that your son will have access to it eventually any way. They can’t keep it from him. If the trust is only in his name he can take legal possession at 18 under the rule in Saunders v Vautier (google it). If it’s a joint trust then the two of them can take possession when the youngest turns 18 provided that there are no preconditions/gift overs.

Butterymuffin · 13/05/2019 11:49

What pallas said in the first response. Your son is better off having a secure relationship with loving parents than he would be with any amount of money being dangled by dysfunctional wider family. Good for him for saying he doesn't want it. You sit tight and let them realise their plan to put you in your place has gone wrong.

averythinline · 13/05/2019 11:58

Your sons instincts were right - not to be bought... as thats what they are trying to do ...
They would hold this over him forever...

you have 2 DC have they done the same for both ?

I really think you should in the short term just ignore ..... carry on your families lives as if it/these don't exist .....

you/your son certainly dont need to rush anything -

I think your dads role in approaching your son directly is horrible shows he know exactly what the game your mum/siblings are playing - he is the 'acceptable face' to you ... think you have to accept he is part of it not an innocent bystander :(

grey rock - and if a cheque whatever turns up for your dc - he can then decide/give to charity (buy goats from oxfam /gift to mind for MH support) spend it or just bank it away or tear it up or send back

I had this (much smaller amount) and gave it back have never regretted it....

Twofigures · 13/05/2019 12:06

@BogglesGoggles I don't know what kind of trust it is as I've had no other information and have never provided any paperwork. My sister has been the one involved in setting it all up, I believe. By asking for his NI number now to put the money into another account, I don't think he will be able to access it at 18 and the brief conversation with my dad indicated that they were discussing release in instalments. Completely agree it's their money to do what they want with it but would it not be normal to include a child's legal guardian?

OP posts:
BlueMerchant · 13/05/2019 12:10

This will be a millstone around your son's neck.
It's not normal at all not to involve you.
The money would be amazing for your ds but how will he cope with being controlled? The money will be expected to be used for purposes they see fit.

BlueMerchant · 13/05/2019 12:13

They'll expect DS to account for every penny spent and will cause grief if they don't agree. It will be awful.

Twofigures · 13/05/2019 12:15

AttilaTheMeerkat no, the bonus of being a teenage boy -he has no idea where his NI number is!

OP posts:
Twofigures · 13/05/2019 12:24

@averythinline I believe there is similar money for my other dc although he is only 15 so they don't seem to feel the urgency. Tbh I've been trying to ignore and just get on with our lives but it keeps rearing its head!

@BlueMerchant if I'm honest with myself I know that is likely to be the case. This is really tricky for a 17 year old although am really proud of his morals. Maybe I haven't done such a bad job as a parent! 🤔

OP posts:
BogglesGoggles · 13/05/2019 13:25

Hi. No, not really. The trustee will nominate people that respresent them and their intentions irrespective of their connection with the beneficiary (often the trustee won’t even know the beneficiary). But, under the rule inSaunders, it doesn’t matter what the trustee/testator wants the beneficiary can vary or end the trust provided that the interest is vested and there are no issues surrounding capacity. If this is something your son would be interested in doing he has the right to request to see the trust document. I would then suggest seeing a solicitor if you decide to take it further. The pieces of information you need are 1. Who are the beneficiaries (who is entitled under the trust). Are there any preconditions (such as getting married or having a child, age is not a precondition for these purposes). 3. Is it vested (are the beneficiaries completely entitled to the funds or will someone receive the remainder as a gift over-you are looking for words like x smiling for the benefit of Gary at age 35. If he doesn’t not survive to the age of 35 x amount to Bary). 4. What kind of trust is it (if there is more than one beneficiary it may be a discretionary trust if the amountsceach person gets are not defined which prevents to operation Saunders in which case you may seek to enforce the trust in the event they refuse to pay out instead).

Twofigures · 13/05/2019 14:02

@BogglesGoggles Thank you and maybe that's exactly it - my parents don't feel I will represent their intentions, but do what I think is best for my son, although I only suggested I should also be a trustee not THE trustee, therefore we would all need to agree. As it is I am completely excluded and that moment passed when they set the trust up. I have no idea what they are now planning as they are clearly moving the money into another account (not sure if it is also a trust although my son is still under 18 so might that be possible?)My son actually wants nothing to do with it all now but that in itself will cause a whole lot of other problems!

OP posts:
BogglesGoggles · 13/05/2019 14:13

If it makes you feel any better I was looking at setting up a trust for my children a few months ago. I wasn’t planning on naming myself or my husband trustee. In the end we decided on a slightly different course of action but if I were ever to set up a trust for my children I wouldn’t name my husband as trustee. I couldn’t rely on him to make completely impartial choices if my children asked him for money. The concern for you parents may have been similar. It’s very common and I would try not to take it personally. Although their subsequent behaviour has been awful.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/05/2019 14:14

"My son actually wants nothing to do with it all now but that in itself will cause a whole lot of other problems"

But it will cause more problems for him if this money is accepted. Money can be used by such people as a further means of exerting power and control over their victims. Indeed sit tight and show them that their plan to put you as his mother in your place has gone awry; you will not be controlled any longer.

Your parents created this dysfunctional dynamic amongst the three of you as siblings; they have favoured the other two over you and it shows in their behaviour towards you even now. Your sister never liked you and your parents have just gone along with this and otherwise encouraged it, they too have not treated you all the same here. Your siblings continue to exclude you as a fellow sibling. Your parents were not good parents to you when you were growing up and they have not changed fundamentally since your own childhood.

I am glad to read that he did not give out his NI number; this in itself is valuable information for someone else to use.

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