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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Organising split from overbearing DP, where on earth to start?

26 replies

HedgerowHum · 24/04/2019 00:56

I have NCd for this. I need some straight thinking and encouragement, as my relationship with DP looks likely to be coming to an end after many unhappy years. I think I am in shock, and am finding it hard to focus on how to move ahead.

Brief outline:

Together 16 years, 2 primary school aged DC. Both professional work in public sector, on modest salaries.
DP has always been 'difficult', despite being capable of projecting a charismatic and dynamic front when necessary. Very particular about how he likes things, and incredibly inflexible and unable to cope with changes of plan or transitions, resulting in moody retreats to his room, sometimes for whole days, and long spells of the silent treatment. Relentlessly dissatisfied. He has suffered long bouts of depression as well as severe anxiety, a couple of psychotic episodes, suicidal ideation and periodic self-harm. Although he has never been physically violent, some of his behaviour has been really scary and intimidating. Obviously not like this ALL the time, but I am always aware that 'the wind might change' when we're in a better place.

Like so many women, I have spent hours online trying to determine how much of his behaviour arises from his ailing MH (he has received therapy and medication for depression and anxiety) and to what extent he is using his MH to beat me over the head and get me to 'try harder'. I have lived for years riddled with guilt, feeling like I can't get anything right, that I should dig deeper, be more supportive, foregoing so much, perpetually in the dog-house.

As for the DC; he has a massive dad ego, priding himself on being this great parent, but not seeming to get that the DC suffer his moods and unpredictability too, even if it is 'just' directed at me.

Following a bleak Easter, he has decided that he has had enough, and that he would like us to split up. Last night he presented two scenarios;

a) we either sell our house and divide everything 50-50, which is how we have always paid for everything, meticulously. Neither of us would end up with enough to buy again, so would be looking at privately rented accommodation out of area, or

b) he leaves, and I stay in the house with the DC, and the mortgage is signed over to me (providing I can find a willing lender). As I am not in a position to buy him out, he would take our joint savings, amounting to approximately half of what he would get in a sell and split scenario. His solution to this is that he does not pay child maintenance.

I am reeling and overwhelmed, and don't know where to start. My gut instinct is to stay in the house; I will never be in a position to buy alone again, and the DC would hate to move. But I feel so guilty. I recognise this is how I have become conditioned, but it is like a bubble I can't get out of, and it is really clouding my judgement. I am aware that the child maintenance would amount to a lot over the coming decade, but if that is the price of staying in the house and relinquishing financial ties, I am sorely tempted to accept. I think I could just about manage without a financial contribution from him (given his salary, I am not sure it would amount to much anyway), but I know it isn't 'right'. I am not even sure that one is allowed to formally forego child maintenance / not pursue it?

What do I need to do next? As we are not married, I think we can pretty much organise things as we see fit, but I honestly feel like I am in a fog. Can someone please offer some encouragement and practical advice for things I need to be doing to move things along in the next couple of days and beyond? Some insights, and things I mustn't overlook? I feel I just can't afford to mess this up.

A bit longer than I intended, but as I said, reeling.

OP posts:
Connieston · 24/04/2019 01:04

Get some decent legal advice. Not a free half hour, a proper appointment. You are separating and divorcing and you have more rights than I think you realise. Informal arrangements are lovely but in law when you are married even if not together your assets are shared as are your debts and liabilities.

Connieston · 24/04/2019 01:06

Oops ok you're not married! Even still please get decent advice.

Seahorseshoe · 24/04/2019 01:15

I've not gone through anything like this but I don't want to read and run. You are in the middle of this crisis right now, it won't always feel like this. You really do only have one life and you don't sound very happy with how it has been.

If I were in your shoes, if you can afford to keep the house, I'd do it. Less change for your children. You have no need to feel guilty - they need stability.

Good luck op💐 wishing you a happy future.

Sally2791 · 24/04/2019 06:12

Get proper legal advice, but I would be inclined to keep the house if possible

HollyBollyBooBoo · 24/04/2019 06:35

It's hard to advise without the numbers behind it. For example value of the house vs how much CM he would pay - there is a calculator online.

Can you afford all the bills that come with running a house alone without any CM?

AsleepAllDay · 24/04/2019 06:36

Please book an appointment with a solicitor in your area. If he's as difficult as he sounds, the two scenarios have probably been cooked up to cause you trouble. You want solutions that protect you and make sure you get your entitlements. Please don't agree to anything until you get legal advice. If he's not a divorce lawyer then his proposed ultimatums WILL have him in mind. Remember, he's no longer your partner and sounds like he hasn't been acting with your best interests in mind for a while

Also please activate any support networks. Reach out to whatever family and friends that you can. Don't worry that you're being a pain or boring. It sounds like you were isolated in your relationship and forced to revolve around him. This cannot be the case anymore

HedgerowHum · 24/04/2019 19:38

Thank you for your responses, it's been a long day at work, so am only just able to check back in.
I have decided to follow your advice, Asleep and reach out to a few people. Feels quite vulnerable, as the state of my relationship isn't something I have really been broadcasting, possibly out of some misplaced sense of loyalty. Just saying it aloud makes it more real. A couple of friends have recommendations for family solicitors, so I will put on my big girl's pants and get in touch. Your words are so true, yet it feels strange to shift from the "poor him" mindset to "Shit, he's really done a number on me..."
Holly, I think that is another thing I need to do; sit down and number crunch a load of different scenarios, a kind of feasibility study. Initially I was thinking that I would be able to take in a lodger, or language school students in the holidays, but now I wonder whether that might be problematic with extra taxable income and any working tax credits I might be eligible for. I need to call CAB, I think. I so wish there was a kind of exit strategy one-stop-shop where one could go and just say "I'm beat, these are the figures, please tell me what's what."
DP is being super nice, I think he is as shocked as I am, but I am keeping my head down.
Will check back in later. Thanks again!

OP posts:
Afterthestorm · 24/04/2019 19:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Zerrin13 · 24/04/2019 20:02

OP These are early days. Unfortunately it is extremely unlikely that he has yours and the children's best interests at heart.
He is offering you nothing. Don't let him make the offers or try and set the tempo.
It isn't just about him and what he can come out with. It's about your children being adequately housed and supported.
Are you going to be the resident parent?
If so he is totally unreasonable to suggest you support them financially without him contributing. Situations like this are rarely settled quickly and amicably. Don't accept anything without consulting a solicitor is my advice.

SnapesGreasyHair · 24/04/2019 20:13

So....you get the children and all the costs associated with them...and he gets none of that cost?? I don't think so!!

You need to get your house valued and see what equity there is. How many years left on the mortgage is there?

SnapesGreasyHair · 24/04/2019 20:16

You then need to offset that against your savings and see what figures you come up with.

I managed to take on the mortgage alone as there was only 9yrs left, so l maxed it out till I'm 67yrs which meant l can afford the repayments

SnapesGreasyHair · 24/04/2019 20:17

Not all mortgage companies will allow benefits to be included as income but Santander does.

HedgerowHum · 25/04/2019 23:59

Thank you. Zerrin, you are right, I need to make sure I set the pace, and don't get swept away in the urgency of it. I'm scared to lose momentum, but don't want to agree to something or make decisions without being well informed.
If I stay in the house, I would be the resident parent. Houses like ours are currently selling for around £260k, and we have £70k left on our mortgage with 12 years to go. We put in equal deposits, and have paid exactly the same amount in mortgage payments over the years. Youngest DC 18 in 12 years. Joint savings, which he is proposing to take instead of being 'bought out' amount to approximately £35k (which I now see is even less than half of 50% of the equity in the house). I really want to stay and not to have to move the DC but it seems such a strangely skewed 'deal'; he walks away with so much less initially, the DC lose out on CM (approx £200 /month, which adds up to about £29k by the time youngest DC turns 18, making his overall 'gain' closer to the 50% of equity mark).
We have talked off and on about separating for years, but always concluded that we'd both be screwed if we sold and split (have never discussed any other scenario), so have shelved plans and plodded on. I realise that I worry about him not being able to set himself up with somewhere to live, where DC can spend time too, and that he will massively regret it later. Rightly or wrongly, I feel responsible for ensuring he doesn't do himself a financial disservice. When he suggested it, I actually thought that I should insist he has a mental capacity assessment, given his MH background Sad I would love to sever financial ties and the obligations, expectations, blame and guilt that comes with them, but if we sell and split in order to achieve that clean break, there is no way I could buy again.
I need to see someone who can show me some different models and talk them through with me / us.

OP posts:
Chocmallows · 26/04/2019 00:07

I don't understand why it's 50:50 if you have the DC more (so work less?). In my case I took on equity (+mortgage) and most of savings. His pension dwarfed mine.

Can you write an asset list to compare your figures and include his pension and ability to make more money (more time to work?). I think he plans to short-change you!

LemonTT · 26/04/2019 09:21

I think the reason they are considering 50/50 is because they are not married and both have comparable careers. The key issue for both of you is the need to make provision for the children. That means both of you have regular contact in your own homes and if possible no distraction.

Legally you may just may be able to get an agreement that allows you to stay in the home until they are 18. But this is far from a certainty. But speak to a solicitor

Neither of you can waive CMS so this is not something you can negotiate on fairly. Drop the idea. It’s stupid anyway because you never know what could happen in the future.

Financially you both need to look into reasonable housing requirements. Based on what you say you have £210k equity and £50k in savings. So would both getting £100k + to buy new homes or restart your lives. That’s quite a chunk but I don’t know what the housing market is in your area.

He could retain an interest in the home until the children or older or if you meet someone else. If he took the £50 k then that would be about 20-30%.

SavingSpaces2019 · 26/04/2019 15:20

You can't trust him.
DON'T trust him.
Any 'man/parent' who thinks it's acceptable to not pay maintenance/contribute to the financial cost of bringing up their children is only putting their own welfare first.

He's an idiot if he thinks he can relinquish his share of equity in the house in lieu of maintenance for his children - he knows the financial cost of raising children will be higher in the long run than the amount of equity he's 'generously giving' to you!
Twat! He clearly thinks he's so fucking clever!

Summerhillsquare · 26/04/2019 15:42

Well done for reaching out OP, that's the first step. Don't forget pensions if any.

3luckystars · 26/04/2019 15:52

Don't trust him.
Dont rush in to anything.

You have enough in savings to clear the mortgage. Please get good legal advice and make your last stand against him a mighty one.

Also, don't trust him.

LemonTT · 26/04/2019 16:16

From what you have written I think you just want to find a way to afford stay in the house or buy a new maybe slightly cheaper home. Basically you don't want to get off the housing ladder. Based on what you have said you probably are in the 50:50 territory. The advice about looking at pensions is irrelevant as you are not married.

Realistically taking away £100K+ should be enough to start a new life. To be blunt you are not stuck in this relationship by any measure based on money. You both have enough equity and savings to start again. But you are going to have to take a financial hit and it might mean a change in housing.

Have you looked into help to buy? The downside is the overvalued new home requirement.
Allowing him to retain an interest in the home until the children are 18 or your circumstances changes. Downside is the equity may grow above inflation and you will owe him a lot more than you would now.
Extending the mortgage period until you retire or beyond, you can get 30 year mortgages etc and if you have a decent pension you will get a lump sum when you retire.

As others have said the CMS is not something you can waive, it is not fair to either of you or the children. So forget about this as an option.

My advice is to stop fretting about what he does. He is mentally capable if he is working and where he lives is his decision not yours. He only needs a 2 bed at most as the kids can share or he can use the sofa. He will be ok.

gingerscot · 26/04/2019 18:00

What’s to stop you agreeing to take the house without child support. Then a year down the line claiming child support? Isn’t that option leaving him quite vulnerable?

Get advice I’d say.

Erinaz · 26/04/2019 18:15

You keep the house use your half of savings to repay get morgage down. Its personally up to you to pursue mantience payments but he should really pay something if the children are staying with you . Also if you are struggling to pay morgage you could try getting housing benifit to pay the interest all depends or your income.

crystalize · 26/04/2019 18:16

Keep the house. Give him the 35£ in savings. Then further down the line you could go for child support. Win win.

HedgerowHum · 27/04/2019 00:29

Thank you for such a wide range of thoughts on this. This is what I need to hear.
I think I may have been unclear above Erinaz and 3LuckyStars ; total of joint savings is £35k-ish (which he is proposing to take in exchange for me staying in the house).

Lemon you are right, I really don't want to go into private rented accommodation with the DC, following my own experienced in this sector before buying (and I am aware how spoilt this sounds Blush ). I figure I would emerge from a sell and split with approximately £105k, and having completed a few online mortgage affordability calculators it looks as if I could borrow £65k. This would buy me a small 2 bed flat further out. I could sleep in the living room and commute us to work and school. In my most fed up moments, I have thought "It doesn't matter where I end up living, as long as I am out of this!" but now that it looks like it is happening, I am terrified of getting it wrong, as I will only get one shot at it. If the DC found out I'd had the chance to stay in the house, but decided to move them out, they would never forgive me. But if foregoing CM isn't actually possible, then it doesn't look like I have much of a choice but to sell and split. Unless DP changes his mind following legal advice, the only way he is happy to walk away from the house is if I don't pursue him for CM. He did say he would still pay for the things he pays (jointly) for now; clubs and activities, trips and holidays, gifts etc.
I am going to write the mother of all spidergrams this weekend...
Thanks again!

OP posts:
LemonTT · 27/04/2019 08:48

Have you looked at the help to buy option? There are downsides but it might work. Kids get over house moves, they happen all the time.

The CMS issue is potentially unfair to him and to you. It’s not something you can agree and it’s just going to be an ongoing complication in your lives. Yes you could waive it unofficially but what if you lost your job. Then you would have no choice but to claim it. All sorts of things make this unworkable. You are better off with having fixed CMS support than maybe money for odds and sods.

See a solicitor and / or get some wikivorce advice. Potentially you may have to let him retain an interest in the house. It’s pretty much how people resolve this if they want the children to stay in the home. By the sounds of it he will be happy renting.

Whatever it is you agree you want it to be settled and not open to disputes in the future. You also need to be able to justify yourself to the children, so I can’t advocate that you follow advice to basically shaft him. Although being unmarried has made this an unfair situation for you as the likely resident parent it sits uneasy to me to take advantage of someone who may be unstable.

BingandFlop2019 · 27/04/2019 13:53

Sounds like either help to buy is your answer or 'agree' to no CM then claim it a month later but of course that would cause ructions between you.

I would go to CAB personally or get a free half an hour with a Family Lawyer S others have suggested. Good luck!