Please help me, I don't know what to do about dd17 anymore

[dontforgettofloss]

I'm at my wits end, so please be kind.
Basically, my dd has been nothing but trouble for the past couple of years.
When she was in yr 11 she constantly refused school for various reasons- she felt anxious, she'd fallen out with someone, she didn't like a certain teacher, every reason you could think of.
She managed to pass a couple of GCSEs, and got into college doing a course she wanted, as well as resitting her maths gcse.
Eventually she started skipping college as well, with all the excuses under the sun.
Shortly after starting college, she met a boy, who the whole family knew was bad news, she saw him for a few months, before she ended the relationship, admitting that he was abusive towards her, and also encouraged her to smoke weed.
When all this was happening, I made myself ill with worry, and did everything I could to get her to college, and try to stop her seeing this boy.
He ended up coming to our house, screaming abuse and spitting on my door, and the police were involved.
Fast forward a couple of months, she's still refusing to go to college, saying she feels scared in case he turns up there (the college have done everything they can to reassure her that she's safe there).
She won't get a job, she's done absolutely nothing since she left school last May.
I've worked with the college to help her, they've bent over backwards to help her.
She spends everyday on her phone on snapchat- talking to various boys, she was previously sending nude pictures of herself for money on snapchat
She's also on a dating site called yubo, and I've seen some of the pics on her profile, they're awful .
She went off to meet someone today, not telling me who it is or where she's going- I'm sick with worry that she's seeing her ex boyfriend again.

She's horrible to me, calls me all sorts of names, she does nothing to help round the house, I clean her room and she messes it up again, it's a complete pigsty.
She's doing absolutely nothing with her life- she said she needs to think about what she wants to do at college as she didn't like the course she was doing.
Yes she has anxiety, but often uses it as an excuse to get out of things.
I also suffer with debilitating anxiety, but somehow still have to work and look after her and the other children.
I'm sorry if this is a little muddled, I'm a wreck, I have posted about her before, but not sure how to find my other thread or link it.
As an example of how vile she is to me- she borrowed money from her younger brother last week to get her nails done, and refused to pay him back, I told her she had to, and she called me a fucking cunt for going in her room to ask her to pay him back.
Last year when she was refusing to go to school (yr 11), we were arguing one morning about her refusal to go, she kept telling me to get out of her room, then threatened to "kick my cunt in" if I didn't get out.

Please please someone tell me what to do, I'm not sure how much more I can take

So OP should - what?

As previously stated, no phone bill paid, no WiFi, call police if she is aggressive or threatening.

OK, and it will not make a blind bit of difference other than to enrage her.

It really won't. If there's no WiFi she will rack up huge charges in data. If the bill isn't paid she can still take the phone to any coffee shop or bus station or worse, a mate's house.

I'd agree with calling the police for any actual physical violence but the point is, the OP has lost control here. Giving her sanctions like no wifi when her behaviour is so extreme is meaningless.

Why is no one saying the obvious - here's what I'd be telling her. "You've missed the boat with college, well done for fucking that up, that's the end of your meal ticket. Get a job in the next 3 months or you can take this letter, stating that I am kicking you out, to the council for housing. Call me a cunt one more time and your notice ends and you're out with immediate effect."

Seriously why must you and your other kids pussyfoot around the house scared of her? Her language towards you is nothing short of disgusting and I cannot believe she's had no consequences for that. She has no respect for you and your home as she knows that she can get away with literally anything. There is no way on this planet I could imagine being treated like that in my own home and you shouldn't either. Yes she's your daughter but you do not have to live like this.

Oh OP. I really feelnfor you. I could have written much of your post. My DD self harms and as much as I hate to say it, has I think manipulated me by doing so. We’ve had camhs and social service involvement. She’s not in college. Has no interest other than her partner and snapchat. I’m at my wits end.
If I change the WiFi she knows how to reset It. I need the WiFi in to work as I wfh. I don’t pay her mobile most months due to bad behaviour. She is isolating herself (and as a result) me from our family.

Because the council won't home her, True

They really, seriously won't!

@whyiinstigate how come?

If not, insert "you can go crash on someone's sofa etc" the point is, you'll be out if you don't make the right choice x

Well done for helping her get free of the abusive boyfriend OP. How old was he?

I would report the Snapchat photos and the fact she is potentially meeting random people online to the Police OP, she is 17, still a child and she is at high risk from sexual exploitation. You need some extra support here too.

I am 24 now and as much as I hate to admit this to myself I was somewhat like your DD.
I was bullied in primary school but when I started secondary I started getting a lot of attention from all the boys. My mum never had the proper talk with me about “boys” and how these creatures, who suddenly seem so mystical at a teenage age are not as important as the rest of my future and it’s normal for me to fancy someone but I should have my limits and focus on my career. She never spoke to me about why having a career is important or why education is important. She was always busy and just very strict about me going out. When I was in yr 11 I swore at at for the first time. I told her I wanted to go out and when she said NO in front of her friend, I said fuck you bitch! (May god forgive me) I knew she would give me a slap but I stopped being scared of her. I started hating her and resenting her no matter how much effort she made because I did not care about education or having a career. I just wanted attention from guys because it made me feel free and beautiful. In yr 10 I had a stalker it’s a long story but eventually he became very abusive and I did not want to tell my mum because she never discussed boys with me and kept it such a taboo topic that I thought if I tell her she will blame me. One day I came home and I was pale in the face and I looked to scared and for the first time ever she said what’s wrong please tell me and she started to cry and when I told her she went outside and gave that stalker a peace of her mind. From there on things started to get better. It took a long time I still resented but then every mothers worst nightmare I got my first and worst heartbreak I was 19 at the time. I would cry a lot it felt like my heart was in my mouth all the time but she held me so close to her and slept next to me and gave me as much support as possible. She made up for all the attention she failed to give in my early years and I came to understand that she actually loves me and I should consider her feelings too...
the bitter truth is your daughter is not going to change until she faces the consequences of her actions. What you can do is try to spend more time with her and not bring up her past mistakes.
It’s a very difficult situation but this is my story.
I hope things get better for you. x

P.s now I can’t imagine my life without my mum but it took a lot of effort from both sides.

Cut off her money, forbid the others from lending her any. She needs to see that she has to work for her living.

Contact social services and tell them you can’t keep her at home. She’s a vulnerable minor involved in sex work. They have to act, but only if you completely step away.

They will try to tell you you have to keep her. That’s bullshit. She will likely be put somewhere not very nice; her luxuries will be limited (none existent). But it might be the kick she needs.

If you kick her out at 18 she’s an adult and gets significantly less support

Because the council won't home her,

They really, seriously won't!

At her age she will be considered vulnerable and she would get support with a roof and a safe place to sleep.

Not a council house or flat...but they would look at temp housing.

I wouldn't have my DD speaking to me like that. She would be out and the locks changed. She's terrorising you.

Well she sounds like a delight! Get her straight down the Army/ Navy recruitment office and tell her that once she’s 18 you no longer have a legal requirement to house/ cloth her!

Thank you everyone, you've given me a lot to think about x

Feel free to pm me OP I think we have similar issues. I don’t have answers but can definitely empathise.

@don'tforget....my DD was horrific when she was 14 - 16 - she's now 19 and an absolutely wonderful young woman. As bad as she is, she's still vulnerable. Please try to be there for her and ride out the storm but without pandering to her

I absolutely think Miimii7868 speaks a huge amount of sense.
Inside your DD is still your girl.
We all know how disagreements and conflict escalate, 'keep doing the same thing, keep getting the same result'.
Time for a new approach, calm things right back down

@whyinstigate sorry but I don't agree with your advice. Its gone way beyond all that now by the sounds of it. Can you actually guarantee she will 'grow out of it'? Sorry but if you continue to fund her lifestyle and not say anything about anything she is doing, she will just carry on - why wouldn't she?
She would be angry I'm sure but might actually regain some respect for the fact her mother is actually standing up to her. At the moment she is too soft and she is playing on this. So, your advice of continuing to be soft doesn't make sense.

I don't think you should stop paying for her phone.

If you do stop you risk her running into the arms of some pimp or a gang.

Was your DD ever sexually abused?

Has she ever been assessed for any personality disorder or bipolar?

She is a risk taker and as the Snapchat photos show, she is incredibly vulnerable to exploitation.

Taking risks to the extent that she does ( the Yubo site) along with the sexual acting out (Snapchat) makes me wonder about borderline personality disorder but also bipolar and trauma associated with prior sexual abuse.

Does the college have a pastoral care department? If yes, you should ask to talk to them about how to get her referred for an assessment.

Her GP might be able to refer too.

The charity Mind might be a resource for you.

She isn't selling pictures of herself anymore, she said she did it because she wanted extra money, and that it was "easy money".

I was in the OP's position many years ago.

There were many disasters that I had no influences over. People were seriously hurt in many ways. I was among the parents who were told it is not acceptable to smack bottoms but as children, there was a good chance we would have had smacked bottoms.
I am not authorising any violence. A smacked bottom is a very different thing to abuse. My generation was on the whole respectful of our parents, grandparents, teachers, vicars (of any denomination), doctors, nurses and all the emergency services. The generation we raised was the start of the rebellious children who always wanted more and more and never thought what their parents did to provide for them, had no respect for anyone and quite a few are bullying and threatening to their parents and grandparents.
I went softly over trying to get my DCs to not only be decent to people around them but also to be decent to themselves. They took up with some right horrors and became like them.

I don't advocate a softly softly approach. I think you have to assert some authority, you are the adult here, you are the householder and you will not tolerate this carry-on. Don't leave it until you get totally beaten down. Sorry to say it but your DD is heading down a very bad road. You don't know who she is meeting you don't know who she might bring back to the house in the middle of the night (or let into the house during the night). She is putting your entire household at risk. You also have to protect the grandparents because when you stop providing she will start on them.
Tough love needs to be tried and alert the grandparents to say no or say they are phoning you to come round right away.
If DD wants to swear and threaten she has to be prepared for what may come of that.

That doesn't make any difference.

I think she is very vulnerable and with her risk taking, confidently heading out to meet someone from the dating site, she could easily fall into really bad company and end up way in over her head.

DD wasn't as bad as your daughter but she would go out straight from school and not come home until late. She had hypothermia when she went out without a coat and sat outside with her friends drinking.

She's now 26 married and has 3 lovely well behaved boys. We also have a great relationship and she's as much a friend as a daughter.

I totally agree with the tough love advice. I wouldn't dream of kicking my 17 year old out, but all this nonsense about ignoring it is causing the problems with these children these days, they're not afraid of authority and we are too scared to discipline them incase we offend or upset them. Its a sad state of affairs that parents are giving in because they know the children won't do as they're told! I'm 40, when I was that age, no way would I have dreamed of talking to my parents like that, I grew up in a lovely house feeling very loved by both parents but I respected them and was scared to death if I knew I was in trouble (same goes for school teachers, the police etc), they were there to help and protect but we also knew they were a force to be reckoned with if you did something wrong). My 17 year old can't function without her phone in her hand, but I pay the bill so if she does get too mouthy with me that's the thing that gets taken away- she has a boyfriend so it's a double whammy punishment. She might be 17 but she's still a child so when she acts like one she gets treated like one, thankfully I no longer have to do that very often anymore! I really would remove the phone so she can't send nudes and go on dating sites, I too would leave her room to her and she would only get the privileges once she'd shown she was mature enough to earn them. it's life and she needs to learn that lesson pretty quick or she'll never hold down a job no matter what type it is.

So sorry that you are in this awful situation OP, I do feel for you. For the sake of all of you I think you desperately need some space - your DD17 must be using up all your time and energy and everyone is suffering.

It sounds as if your relationship is a major part of the problem right now and I'm not sure if a sudden change to 'tough love' will be possible for either of you.

Only suggestion I have is to contact SS and tell them that you can't cope with her any more, that her behaviour is impacting on the whole family, that she threatens you with violence and is abusive and that your health is suffering. Ask that she be placed in temporary foster care. You will need to be very firm with SS since they will not want to take responsibility but they are obliged to do so if you insist. A friend had to do this with her 16 year old daughter who was behaving in a very similar way. Her daughter was given very clear 'rules' in the foster care home but it seems she was more able to accept them since it wasn't coming from her mum. She still got involved with a bad crowd, and refused to return to college but she got through it and her relationship with her mum is now ok - not brilliant but at least reasonable. She's now 21 and has a job and a rented flat.

Good luck. And please try to take care of yourself in the middle of all this abuse.